Subject: MAX Digest - 29 Dec 1999 to 30 Dec 1999 (#1999-373)
Date: Fri, 31 Dec 1999 00:00:01 -0500
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There are 11 messages totalling 347 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. question about LCD object (3)
  2. Power PC can't read old file formats
  3. manuals
  4. Emagic Audiowerk8
  5. integers/floats/accuracies
  6. Challenge
  7. groove~ looping behavior
  8. Can anyone educate me about the fractus object?
  9. symbol->number ???


Date:Wed, 29 Dec 1999 22:02:20 -0500
From:Stephen Kay <sk@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject: question about LCD object

> Hello. I've been using LCD object recently. I noticed that whenever I
> another window on top of the one containing LCD, or when I resize the
> window with LCD, all the drawings
in the LCD object get erased. I need=

> redraw everything every time I drag something on top of it. Is there an=
> way to avoid this, and to keep all the drawings "alive" even if the
> windows goes temporarily to the back?

That's one of the "drags" of the way that object is implemented. It
simply draws what you tell it to draw, using QuickDraw, into the window.
That drawing doesn't actually exist anywhere.

All Max objects that present some sort of graphical appearance must
refresh themselves every time they are uncovered or changed. Simple
ones typically just redraw everything again, from scratch. More
sophisticated ones do all the original drawing into an offscreen
GWorld (which is basically a stored copy of the graphic) and then
copy the picture back onto the screen when a refresh is needed,
without having to redraw the whole thing.

Unfortunately, you will have to redraw the whole thing if you cover
it up, if you are using the LCD object. It could, no doubt, be
rewritten to use GWorlds, but I don't have time to do it :-(

Stephen Kay
The MegaMAX Collection of graphic UI Objects:


Date:Wed, 29 Dec 1999 22:35:22 -0800
From:keay <keay@HOOKED.NET>
Subject: Power PC can't read old file formats

Hello All,

I searched the last few years of Max List for a solution to this, but
found only the question not the answer. Could somebody be so kind as to how
I can fix this?

I have several patches that I have been workinbg on regularly. One day, I
go to open the patch and I get the error message-Power PC cannot read
older file formats -. Why is this happening and how do I fix it?

I'm running 3.5.8 with MSP. System 8+. The patch has msp components as
well as tables.

Thanks for any help.


Date:Thu, 30 Dec 1999 11:57:10 +0100
From:krl <kliem@MESO.NET>
Subject: manuals

>1) Is there a way to get the Max manual in PDF form? I am travelling a lot
>with my equipment, and I hate carrying the Max 3.0 and 3.5 update manuals
>around with me.> documentation/max



Date:Thu, 30 Dec 1999 14:23:03 +0100
From:Peter Swinnen <peter.swinnen@PING.BE>
Subject: Re: question about LCD object

Alejandro Cremaschi <cremasch@OAK.CATS.OHIOU.EDU> wrote:

> all the drawingsin the LCD object get erased. I need to
> redraw everything every time I drag something on top of it. Is there any
> way to avoid this, and to keep all the drawings "alive" even if the
> windows goes temporarily to the back?

Of course, you could buffer all your drawing instructions into a coll...
Or, you could use my udraw object, an extension to the LCD object, which, a.o.
adds exactly this functionality. You can find the latest version on my website

Unfortunately, until now, I didn't find the time yet to eliminate the vertical
scroll bar... :-(
But you should be able to cover it by putting udraw into a bpatcher... :-)

Happy 2k,
Peter Swinnen
Composer(from Belgium)


Date:Thu, 30 Dec 1999 10:06:51 -0500
From:Louis Klepner <lou@EXPRESSIVEIMAGING.COM>
Subject: Emagic Audiowerk8

Aron & all other withe Emagic8:

The drivers that come from Emagic have never worked for me, or anyone
that I have spoken with. I have the functioning drivers on a tiny max-msp
site I have set up.

There is a bug with these drivers, where they will begin distortiong after 3
hours. I also put a little patch on the sitewhich will switch MSP
processing off/on agin every 3 hours. It solved the distortion problem for
In you need any additional help, feel free to contact me.

-Louis Klepner


Date:Thu, 30 Dec 1999 13:39:28 -0500
From:Neal Farwell <nfarwell@FAS.HARVARD.EDU>
Subject: Re: integers/floats/accuracies

Matt wrote -
>In the 16 bit case, the range -1.0 to 1.0 gets mapped to the range -32767 to
>32767. This is a floating point multiply by 32767, followed by a cast to
>short integer.

That's good to know - it explains why a [clip~ -1. 1.] object always
prevents the wrap around, which wouldn't be the case if MSP dumbly scaled
to +-32768...

I'd really like to see such a clipper included, at least as an option, in
the dac~ and file-saving objects/drivers. Hard clipping may be "nasty", but
it's far less ear/speaker-damaging than wrap-around.

>As far as I know all audio D/A converters have an analog lowpass filter after
>the actual D/A part,
Also they do all the oversampling stuff, which means that even if you could
see the steps, they wouldn't at the rate and size you might initially

Speculation on audibility of variable floating point resolution -
Relative to the plus/minus full-scale range:
the "outer quarters" of the range get 24-bit linear resolution
the""of what's left get "25-bit" resolution (msb=0 plus 24
the""of what's left get "26-bit"....etc

(maybe those should be 23,24,25 etc but it doesn't affect the argument)

So you've always got linear resolution of at least 24 bits continuously
across the range.

I don't think present 24-bit hardware converters have yet actually achieved
24-bit linearity. By the time you cast (truncate, dither, whatever) to 20
or 16 bits, the floating point behaviour should be inaudible.

But that's at the d-to-a conversion; audible effects might come out of all
the calculation, mixing etc being floating point?


PS I heard that true floating-point d-to-a converters were only used in the
days when linear converters couldn't do much better than 12-bit. And the
first consumer CD players only managed about 14 bits.


Date:Thu, 30 Dec 1999 20:54:50 +0100
From:PA Nilsson <pan@MUSIK.GU.SE>
Subject: Challenge

The problem: Once, or twice, a day my computer ask for the original floppy
MAX-disk for reauthorization, it will not take an counts, just to look at
the disk. At those times MSP and pluggo seems to be unauthorized as well, I
have to paste in the challange code. Everything works fine otherwise, but
this make me crazy.
My computer is a 8500 with a Sonnet G3 233 MHz cpu and OS 8.5.1.

Per Anders Nilsson/
The Lindblad Studio/
School of Music, Goteborg University/
Box 210, SE-405 30 Goteborg/
phone +46317734031, fax +46317734030/


Date:Thu, 30 Dec 1999 12:17:19 -0800
From:Matt Wright <matt@CNMAT.CNMAT.BERKELEY.EDU>
Subject: Re: question about LCD object

Alejandro Cremaschi doesn't like it when
> all the drawingsin the LCD object get erased.

LCD sucks, and it basically needs a rewrite, to do all its drawing in an
off-screen buffer, plus to fix all the overdrive bugs. I've heard people
talking about how it would be nice to have a more "object-oriented" version,
where, e.g., a circle that you put in LCD remembers that it's a circle and can
be resized, moved, etc.

I would be delighted to assist any volunteers in this project.



Date:Thu, 30 Dec 1999 12:24:36 -0800
From:Matt Wright <matt@CNMAT.CNMAT.BERKELEY.EDU>
Subject: Re: groove~ looping behavior

David Zicarelli proposes to change groove~
> so that a maximum loop point of 0 always goes to the end of the buffer~,
> whatever its size, and the loop point is updated automatically whenever the
> buffer~ size changes. Objections?

This won't change the fact that groove~ doesn't loop by default, right?

My MSP sampler (which you can get from the NightSchool 99 patches at
http://cnmat.CNMAT.Berkeley.EDU/Max) looks at the loop maximum from info~. If
it's zero I assume there's no loop point in your sound file, and I don't loop
the sample; for nonzero I send "loop 1" to groove~.

I wouldn't want sending the zero loop maximum to turn on looping.

But if I turn on looping explicitly, I like David's change for what a zero
maximum means.



Date:Thu, 30 Dec 1999 11:41:37 -0800
From:tim scott <tims@VIGRA.COM>
Subject: Can anyone educate me about the fractus object?

(Apologies if this has been answered before. I am new to
the list but I have looked through the archives without
finding an answer to my question .)

I have got some very interesting results from fractus. I poked
around the web a bit looking for author Dragan Petrovic because
I'm interested in the equations he used to build that object
and patch.

Also, if anyone can point me to other good references for
generative music using fractals, I would be most grateful.

Best regards,

+ Tim Scott + Crow Caw Music Works + P.O. Box 19278 +
+ San Diego, CA 92159-0278 + FAX USA+619.463.3820 + +


Date:Fri, 31 Dec 1999 01:07:02 +0000
From:Robert Henke <robert@MONOLAKE.DE>
Subject: symbol->number ???

small stupid problem :

max v2;
#N vpatcher 324 186 724 486;
#P button 232 128 15 0;
#P button 198 118 15 0;
#P number 198 249 35 9 0 0 0 3;
#P newex 208 214 18 196617 t i;
#P message 229 163 20 196617 42;
#P number 147 249 35 9 0 0 0 3;
#P message 144 134 35 196617 set \$1;
#P message 147 159 52 196617 23;
#P newex 53 133 60 196617 prepend set;
#P message 52 159 65 196617 symbol 23;
#P button 44 46 15 0;
#P newex 70 99 101 196617 dialog type a number;
#P comment 65 47 100 196617 1. bang this;
#P comment 87 78 100 196617 2. type a number;
#P comment 200 78 100 196617 3. try to get that number into a number box...;
#P comment 248 129 100 196617 of course this one works;
#P comment 20 27 290 196617 how to get rid of the SYMBOL ????????????????;
#P comment 238 199 100 196617 ( watch the max window );
#P connect 6 0 9 0;
#P connect 6 0 11 0;
#P connect 10 0 14 0;
#P connect 14 0 15 0;
#P connect 9 0 8 0;
#P connect 11 0 10 0;
#P connect 7 0 6 0;
#P connect 13 0 12 0;
#P connect 10 0 12 0;
#P connect 13 0 14 0;
#P connect 16 0 10 0;
#P connect 17 0 13 0;

#P pop;

happy 3000 !


the secret life of digital music


End of MAX Digest - 29 Dec 1999 to 30 Dec 1999 (#1999-373)