Subject: MAX Digest - 7 Dec 1999 to 8 Dec 1999 - Special issue (#1999-350)
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 18:16:27 -0500
Automatic digest processor <LISTSERV@LISTS.MCGILL.CA>
Reply-To: MAX - Interactive Music/Multimedia Standard Environments <MAX@LISTS.MCGILL.CA>
To: Recipients of MAX digests <MAX@LISTS.MCGILL.CA>

There are 20 messages totalling 734 lines in this issue.

Topics in this special issue:

  1. librarian
  2. Teaching-related questions
  3. Animation position
  4. Compatibility MSP/Digi001 ?
  5. Max/MSP and Touch-tones
  6. soundcards
  7. Writing applications with Max (2)
  8. negative pitch bend
  9. confused speedlim assistance
  10. fractals (2)
  11. Floating, Floating, Floating ... (virtue) (2)
  12. Compatibility MSP/Digi001
  13. MAX list stuff - was Re: Writing applications with Max
  14. So You think French is crazy??
  15. matrix6 editor.
  16. Still floating ...
  17. oops, oh,uh-oh, huh?


Date:Wed, 8 Dec 1999 09:37:56 +0100
From:PA Nilsson <pan@MUSIK.GU.SE>
Subject: librarian

Is there anyone out there who has made a librarian for Yamaha EX5, in
Galaxy opcode don't even mention this machine.

-per anders nilsson

Per Anders Nilsson/
The Lindblad Studio/
School of Music, Goteborg Universitet /
Box 210, SE-405 30 Goteborg/
phone +46317734031, fax +46317734030/


Date:Wed, 8 Dec 1999 00:45:35 -0700
From:jhno <ear@SIRIUS.COM>
Subject: Re: Teaching-related questions

>thought I've had is to find musical examples, created with Max, that are
>less abstract and more tonal and familiar to them than anything that I
>personally create, to use as teaching examples. Any ideas?

this is an interesting topic - accessible max patches, "crossover" examples
that allow the uninitiated to grasp some of the possibilities of max/msp.

offhand, i think you could build quite compelling examples in:

granular 2.0 (sako)

looper (jhno)
pluggo (c74)

something like "looper" would be good, since so much of popular electronic
music is loop-based. you could demonstrate some loops playing together,
then show how msp lets you do tweaky things to them that are beyond the
capabilities of ordinary tools.

les stuck has a nice 808 drum machine interface. that would rope in the kids.

i am working on some new performance tools in max/msp, which will probably
be released through cycling '74 at some point. we have some nice ideas...
stay tuned.

> You should seriously check out jhno's stuff (,
>and maybe he'll let you know how some of it was done (he's on this list).
>I bought a CD of his (awesome stuff) this September, and it has been a big
>hit at parties etc.. His live stuff was also really cool, groove based,
>very accessible and very MAX/MSP-ish. Well worth the listen even if you
>don't use it with your students.

thanks for the props. i have heard that my music has been used in a few
electronic music classrooms, i think some of it is good "crossover" music -
accessible from an "electronica" point of view, but also pretty deep from a
technical or even "academic" point of view. this sometimes seems like an
arbitrary distinction, but i think that the presence of familiar elements
in a piece (like, say, a steady tempo) help draw people into a listening
experience, and allow them to hear some of the more subtle complexity.

or, you might just enjoy regaling your listeners with painful, random
noise. it's all art, dude. EXPRESS yourself.


ps - as it turns out, there is not much max in my studio records to date. i
have only recently achieved enough sophistication with msp to create
systems that integrate well with my musical process. but now it is paying
off... and i am using max/msp increasingly, both live and in the studio.

trivia: "looper" made its recording debut on an indie-pop record - "plano",
by the aluminum group (minty fresh records, 1999). max can wheedle its way
into mass culture...

() ))(((( ))) ))))) ( )((()) (( ))( )) (((( )(()( (()
san francisco, ca


Date:Tue, 7 Dec 1999 22:20:45 -0600
From:Peter Gena <pgena@ARTIC.EDU>
Subject: Animation position

<fontfamily><param>Geneva</param>The School of the Art Institute of

=46aculty Search

Art & Technology (Animation). Artist-researcher-animator sought to
teach experimentally oriented courses integrating 3-D and other forms
of animation with related media & professional practices. The
successful candidate will possess significant experience with one or

more leading 3-D software environments; feel comfortable exploring
interactive and non-linear animation as well as the realm outside of
character-based animation; show evidence of an experimental, robust
approach to relevant areas of media technology and other uses for
animation, and a developed critical framework. He or she will teach and
advise undergraduate and graduate students in an interdisciplinary
academic environment, working with other time based media artists,
architects, designers, and show vision and leadership in managing the
Art & Technology Studies animation program, and contribute to
development of the transdisciplinary SAIC animation community,
curriculum, and facilities spanning several departments.

Send: curriculum vitae, videotapes, CD-Rom, or CD-Roms with websites,
course syllabi, and statements on teaching philosophy and research or
work to:=20

Art and Technology (Animation) Search Committee

The School of the Art Institute of Chicago

Dean's Office

37 S Wabash Ave

Chicago, IL 60603

The School of the Art Institute of Chicago is an Equal Opportunity /
Affirmative Action employer/educator. Women, minorities and
international applicants are encouraged to apply. The position's rank
and salary are commensurate with experience and begins the Fall of

All application materials must be received (not postmarked) by January
10, 2000 5:00pm.



Date:Wed, 8 Dec 1999 10:28:42 +0100
From:Marcel Wierckx <marcel1@STUDENT-KMT.HKU.NL>
Subject: Re: Compatibility MSP/Digi001 ?

Hi Suzan & Maxlist,

We've just invested in a lab full of G4's each with their own Digi001
interface, but alas MSP doesn't want to work with them. Major bummer,
since I'm supposed to start teaching an MSP course on Monday :(

David Z, is there an MSP audio driver in the works for this card?

_Marcel Wierckx

At 00:00 -0500 08-12-1999, Automatic digest processor wrote:
>I would like to know if someone has tested MSP with the new Digidesign
>interface : Digi001. And what are the results ? Can I buy this interface
>and use Max/MSP like before ?


Date:Wed, 8 Dec 1999 13:23:06 +0000
From:Jago <jago@BTINTERNET.COM>
Subject: Max/MSP and Touch-tones

Space pirating opportunists require assistance.

Our house faces a public pay phone, we want users to interact with
images and sounds projected in the windows and down the phone.

Is it possible to interpret touch-tone phone sounds using max/msp?
Does anyone know of any work that has been done using touch tones as
triggering device?

Jago and Lee

DIY public art enthusiasts.


Date:Wed, 8 Dec 1999 09:08:06 -0500
From:Neal Farwell <nfarwell@FAS.HARVARD.EDU>
Subject: Re: soundcards

Thanks to all who gave feedback on my MOTU 2408 / Yamaha DSP-F /... questions.

2408 seems to win most votes; but...

it looks as if economy may downscale me to a Korg 1212. Is this still a
good choice?

The Emagic Audiowerk 2 also looks promising - is anyone using it with Max/MSP?

Thanks again.



Date:Wed, 8 Dec 1999 09:16:55 -0500
From:Neal Farwell <nfarwell@FAS.HARVARD.EDU>
Subject: Re: Writing applications with Max

Jason -

How long have you been on the list? A big digest comes through just about
every day. Perhaps the list server thinks your address is different to the
one you check. I'll email this privately too for comparison.

Max can almost certainly do what you need, and as you're a programmer, you
can probably make it do so. A good way to explore would be to look into
patches made by other people, with the MaxPlay application - which can be
sent you free if I remember correctly (so you won't be able to edit, but
can see how patches fit together). I could send you something. As with any
programming environment, but particularly with Max, people have different
programming styles, so you might want to look at several people's work.



Date:Wed, 8 Dec 1999 09:23:28 EST
Subject: negative pitch bend

Can anyone give me some more insight into how MAX deals with pitch bend
messages? If I have a MIDI file with pitch bend info and I play it in
Performer all of the pitch bend date, negative or positive is played. When I
have the same MIDI file in a seq object with midiparse connected to it and
play both the file with pitch bend it seems MAX handles it differently than
Performer. It doesn't seem to play the negative pitch bend data. Can anyone
help me?



Date:Wed, 8 Dec 1999 16:18:49 +0200
From:Tom Mays <tmays@HOL.GR>
Subject: confused speedlim assistance

minor bug report for David Z.

When 'function~' is a startup object, and one innocently instantiates
'speedlim' and happens to look at the assistance messages for its inlets
and outlets, one quickly realizes that 'speedlim' has taken on 'function~'s
assistance messages! Quit max, move function~ somewhere else and
restart max. Speedlim's assistance is correct. Voila. C'est tout.



Date:Wed, 8 Dec 1999 09:37:10 -0600
From:Don Malone <dmalone@ROOSEVELT.EDU>
Subject: Re: fractals

> Date:
Mon, 6 Dec 1999 14:20:20 -0800
> From:
Elaine Walker-Mullen <miselaineeous@YAHOO.COM>
> Subject: please assist me with my research
> Hello nice MAX folks,
> I'm collecting MAX "Fractal" patches that create music with
> fractal equations. I was wondering if any of you could send email some
> Fractal patches to me if
> you've come accross them. It's part of my research for Dr. Rowe's class at
> NYU (Music Technology
> Masters Program, Digitally Controlled Music Systems class). I'm comparing
> different ways of using
> fractals for composition in MAX, including my own fractal patch that I made
> in 1992.
> I thank you all in advance for your help!
> -Elaine
My "TV" patch employs the verhulst population fractal and the
chirakov pendulum pertubation fractal and several other chaotic patterns

downloadable from

happy tunes
don malone

it takes us all



Date:Wed, 8 Dec 1999 18:21:08 +0100
From:Johan van Kreij <j.vankreij@TELE2.NL>
Subject: Re: Floating, Floating, Floating ... (virtue)

>>especially frustrating insofar as programming in max requires you to
>>memorize the function of dozens of (I almost said "silly") little boxes --
>kind of like learning to speak French, with all of those silly little
>silent letters all over the place... who could imagine that eau, haut, os,
>aux, and aulx are all homonyms?? or that you actually ARE supposed to
>pronounce the "z" in Boulez??!! The irony of it all!!

French has a tradition of, if one might believe the French, millions of
years. So the reason that things are not always logic in the French language
could be that so many individuals have been involved in developing it. This
is somewhat different with Max. I think too that the functionality of boxes
not always unambiguous especially where it concerns inlets.

Once, I had to break up a list of symbols, and breaking up is done by iter
so I choose that object indeed to find out that it doesn't work with
symbols. (Yet there are objects that work with ints and symols, or others
that work for all, or with floats and ints only or. . . and this is what
has to be memorized (what object handles which types of input)).

Breaking up the list of symbols I did by converting ascii to int,then
select spaces and rebuilt the words again by int to ascii. (Probably
listiter does the thing, I will check it out.) The next step was to cycle
these symbols. . .



Date:Wed, 8 Dec 1999 17:31:09 +0100
From:Robert Henke <robert@MONOLAKE.DE>
Subject: Re: fractals

Don Malone said in Re: fractals at 99/12/08Wed 16:37.
> My "TV" patch employs the verhulst population fractal and the
> chirakov pendulum pertubation fractal and several other chaotic patterns
> downloadable from


does not work...

or am i missing some obvious point ??
/sorry for beeing an internet-idiot...


the secret life of digital music


Date:Wed, 8 Dec 1999 10:01:05 -0800
From:David Zicarelli <zicarell@CYCLING74.COM>
Subject: Re: Compatibility MSP/Digi001

Suzan Erkalp <erkalp@RD.GRAME.FR> writes:

>I would like to know if someone has tested MSP with the new Digidesign
>interface : Digi001. And what are the results ? Can I buy this interface
>and use Max/MSP like before ?

I have not personally tested the interface.

All I know is that someone at Digidesign tested MSP with it and
it didn't crash. I don't think they actually did much, so
its reliability beyond not crashing is unknown.

I am currently attempting to provide tech support for someone
who is having problems with using the 001 and MSP. We already
know of the following Digidesign stupidity, which I may have
mentioned here already. I think this must have been intended by
Digidesign to snarl every other company's tech support line. It's
already working quite well!

The Digi 001 contains a MIDI interface that has an OMS driver.
If a program (like Max) signs into OMS, the OMS driver takes
over the 001, making it impossible for another program (like
MSP) to access its audio features. By default, of course,
the OMS driver is installed, so if you want to use the 001
as an audio interface instead of a $1000 MIDI interface (likely,
no?) you have to disable the OMS driver. If you want to use
audio and MIDI together in ProTools (funny, the only application
that won't have this problem), you'll have to re-enable this
driver. A huge pain.

Beyond that, I would only say that expecting that MSP will work
with the Digi 001 right now is a bit of a risk, probably for
reasons that have nothing to do with MSP. I'll try to get
one in a few weeks for testing and then have something more
definitive to say.

David Z.


Date:Wed, 8 Dec 1999 13:32:20 -0500
From:Christopher Murtagh <chris@MUSIC.MCGILL.CA>
Subject: MAX list stuff - was Re: Writing applications with Max

On Wed, 8 Dec 1999, Neal Farwell wrote:
> How long have you been on the list? A big digest comes through just about
> every day. Perhaps the list server thinks your address is different to the
> one you check. I'll email this privately too for comparison.

Greetings everyone,

Just a few things that some might not know. The MAX list can be delivered
to you in two ways, Digest mode, or Single mode.

Digest mode means that you get 1 single email at about Midnight Eastern
Time (-5 from GMT) with all the day's postings. If the digest gets over
700 lines long on any day, it will send out everything it has immediately
as a Special Issue and the rest as a normal digest.

In Single mode, you get each posting as they are received by the
listserv, and no digest.

To change your personal settings, point your browser (don't try these
today, our web server seems to be down!) to

ou, en francais:

NOTE: There is a bug in IE 4.5's JavaScript (among other things), so, you
might need Netscape or an earlier version if IE (like 4.0). Yes, bummer




Date:Wed, 8 Dec 1999 14:21:56 EST
Subject: So You think French is crazy??

In a message dated 12/7/99 21:01:04, you wrote:
>>especially frustrating insofar as programming in max requires you to
>>memorize the function of dozens of (I almost said "silly") little boxes --
>kind of like learning to speak French, with all of those silly little
>silent letters all over the place... who could imagine that eau, haut, os,
>aux, and aulx are all homonyms?? or that you actually ARE supposed to
>pronounce the "z" in Boulez??!! The irony of it all!!

How about cough, through, bough, enough, hiccough, thorough etc. etc
I remember my sister teaching a group of German students the difference
between "a few" quite a few" and "very few".
If you can remember how to use English then a few "silly" little boxes should
be a doddle.


Date:Wed, 8 Dec 1999 10:56:25 -0800
From:"Michael P. Whyte" <matrix6k@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: matrix6 editor.


I have an editor for the oberheim matrix 6 that I made in Logic, but since I can't get logic
to respond to oms timing, I will be switching to vision (yes I know about opcode, but vision
WORKS, and I'll use something else for audio...)I was going to start building my
matrix 6 editor in max, but I thought I would ask if anyone has already done this.
If the editor doesn't exist, I will write one. Let me know if you want it.

-Mike Whyte
Do You Yahoo!?
Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products. All in one place.
Yahoo! Shopping:


Date:Wed, 8 Dec 1999 12:35:37 -0800
From:Peter Elsea <elsea@CATS.UCSC.EDU>

Subject: Writing applications with Max

Yoicks, last week it was recursive math series generations and now we're
wanting to write full applications. At least no one can criticize Maxers
for lackof ambition.

What Max excels in is solving problems that are not addressed by the
mainstream music software industry. You need a simple to use SMPTE hit
grabber and cue trigger? Max can do that. An application that reads the
disk catalog on an Emu sampler and speaks it aloud? Max can do that. Fuzzy
logic/ artificial intelligence based species counterpoint generator? No
problem. And of course many things for which the major creative act is
conceiving of them in the first place. But big programs, that need full
featured interfaces, custom file types and tech support?

The usual advice you see here is that Max has very real limits, not in what
it can do, but in the types of user presentations available. For instance,
there's no way to put up a window, fill it with objects, and let a user
select a group of them. Drag 'n drop isn't happpening, nor is Undo (not in
the sense that a user would expect). You don't have full use of the menus
or the command keys. That's because Max isn't a true language in the sense
most programmers mean- you can create a stand alone application with your
own name on it, but it's really MaxPlay with your patch permanently bound
in. Most of us don't care, because we seldom expect others to use our stuff.

The other limits are the sort that came up in last week's discussion on
subdividing integers. The set of Max objects is finite. Growing, but
finite. There are many common coding tricks, such as recursion, that are
not available (even loops are trickier than you may suspect). When you come
upon somethng that is not directly addressed by an existing object, you
find the number of little boxes on the screen explodes, and design, testing
and maintenance becomes correspondingly more difficult. Max has many useful
ideas taken from object oriented programing, but inheritance is not one of
them, so code reuse is limited. String manipulation and even floating point
math are not completely implemented. If these things are important to you,
you will have to learn to write external objects. This is not difficult for
an experienced C programmer, and as you share your objects, you make life
easier for the non coders among us.

Most of us old timers have gone in a gradual transition through the
following stages:
1. Using Max in simple ways for simple problems
2. Building horribly complex Max patchers for personal solutions to tough
3. Learning to write external objects because iter doesn't do floats (or
whatever bugs you)
4. Building applications that are a Max shell around a horribly complex
external object
5. Building applications with Powerplant* and OMS because the OMS API isn't
all that different from what you had to learn for stage 3 anyway.
6. Using Max to prototype applications that are then turned into
Powerplant/OMS projects.
7. Using Max in simple ways for simple problems.

(*an application framework that comes with Codewarrior, which you also need
for stage 3.)
Peter Elsea
Director, Electronic Music Studios
University of California, Santa Cruz


Date:Wed, 8 Dec 1999 12:25:45 -0800
From:Dmitri Tymoczko <tymoczko@UCLINK4.BERKELEY.EDU>
Subject: Still floating ...

>A major floatization of Max may occur in the near future.
>I hope to make working with floats more of a pleasure.
>Stay tuned.

Hooray! Here's another problem that should be looked at: "vexpr" (at least
the version of it that I have) does not behave correctly with mixed lists
containing both floats and integers.

max v2;
#N vpatcher 50 40 741 482;
#P message 87 206 103 196617 1.5 1.3 1.3 1.9 1.9;
#P newex 87 178 60 196617 prepend set;
#P message 87 126 65 196617 1. 1. 1. 1. 1.;
#P message 159 126 59 196617 0.5 0.3 1 0.9 0;
#P newex 87 151 82 196617 vexpr $f1 + $f2;
#P connect 3 0 4 0;
#P connect 2 0 0 0;
#P connect 1 0 0 1;
#P connect 0 0 3 0;
#P pop;



Date:Wed, 8 Dec 1999 16:51:24 +0000
From:Robb Drinkwater <rdrink@ARTIC.EDU>
Subject: oops, oh,uh-oh, huh?

As many on the list use it as a place to post questions related to Max
things like installation I thought I'd share my latest quandry:

Updated to Max 3.5.9-9 and installed MSP 6.1 + it's update. The
problem?: MSP asks for my Responce (which is current) yet tells me it's
expired. And I know why...seems the Time/Date was set to 01-01-1904
[default] when I installed MSP. No fault of MSP; that *is* expired.

I immediately went to the usual solutions and threw out Pref files, etc.
Unfortunately to no avail. Next logical step was a re-install, but
here's the rub: both Max & MSP believe nothing needs to be re-installed,
and leave my drive un-touched. So...
Anyone have any bright ideas as how to 'fool' MSP into a clean install?
David mentioned removing 'MSP Audio Drivers' to diable a patch; will
this spur on a re-install as well?
The only thing to keep in mind is that my key for Max (,my last key! And
I can't get Opcode to send a Challenge/Responce..big suprise) is still
valid and I live in fear of losing it.

All brilliant suggestions, tips, similar experiences, etc.
are greatly appreciated.
Robb Drinkwater
SAIC Sound Department
312 345 3573


Date:Thu, 9 Dec 1999 00:13:25 +0100
From:Peter Castine <pcastine@PRZ.TU-BERLIN.DE>
Subject: Re: Floating, Floating, Floating ... (virtue)

On around 8=AD12=AD1999 18:21, Johan van Kreij said something like:

>So the reason that things are not always logic in the French language

>could be that so many individuals have been involved in developing it. Thi=
>is somewhat different with Max.

This claim prompted me to develop the following, extremely scientific

Number of people involvedLotsLotsLots
in the development


But then I developed another highly scientific chart, which I found even
more mind-bogglingly suspicious:

Language mauled around
by someone using a DostoyevskyYesYesYesYesNo
character as a pseudonym


There seems to be a pattern here


Peter--slightly stressed out (otherwise I wouldn't be spouting nonsense
like this)

I think

Dr. Peter Castine| The World-Wide Web Site of the 26th
4-15 Music & Technology| International Computer Music Conference is
| now on-line! <>
| Enjoy!


End of MAX Digest - 7 Dec 1999 to 8 Dec 1999 - Special issue (#1999-350)