Subject: MAX Digest - 6 Dec 1999 to 7 Dec 1999 (#1999-349)
Date: Wed, 8 Dec 1999 00:00:01 -0500
From:
Automatic digest processor <LISTSERV@LISTS.MCGILL.CA>
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There are 13 messages totalling 416 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Pace and Revrdist????? (2)
  2. Floating, Floating, Floating ...
  3. Floating, lost ... (2)
  4. Compatibility MSP/Digi001 ?
  5. Teaching-related questions (2)
  6. Floating, Floating, Floating ... (increasingly off-topic)-:
  7. Motu 2408/324
  8. Floating, lost
  9. Re : G4 Installation problems+ MAX and USB compatibility?
  10. Writing applications with Max

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Date:Mon, 6 Dec 1999 21:36:07 -0800
From:dudas <dudas@CNMAT.BERKELEY.EDU>
Subject: Pace and Revrdist?????

I'm going to be teaching a computer music Lab session in the Spring and
will naturally be using Max and MSP. The computer labs where I'm teaching
it use a "maintenance program" called "revrdist", and it seems the people
in charge of the running the computer lab facilities don't have much
experience with music software copy protection, just as I don't have much
experience with "revrdist".

Does anyone in a big academic institution have to deal with Max and MSP
installed on a large number of computers that is automatically maintained
by a so-called "maintenance program"??

Are there any caveats? Anything we should know about how Pace works under
conditions like this?

-R

------------------------------

Date:Mon, 6 Dec 1999 21:53:08 -0800
From:dudas <dudas@CNMAT.BERKELEY.EDU>
Subject: Floating, Floating, Floating ...

(pronounce the title like the famous example sound file from James
McCartney's SuperCollider!)


>"iter" doesn't work with floats ...

not yet, anyway... so for the time being, use McCartney's "listiter", which
does...


>especially frustrating insofar as programming in max requires you to
>memorize the function of dozens of (I almost said "silly") little boxes --

kind of like learning to speak French, with all of those silly little
silent letters all over the place... who could imagine that eau, haut, os,


aux, and aulx are all homonyms?? or that you actually ARE supposed to
pronounce the "z" in Boulez??!! The irony of it all!!


>PS. I know that floats are evil and nobody's ever supposed to use them for
>anything, but they really are useful sometimes. Like for math.

Now, Dmitri, why on earth would you ever want to do anything like THAT in
Max???? :->


Agreed... Equal rights for Floats!!

-Xoaz

------------------------------

Date:Mon, 6 Dec 1999 21:41:05 -0800
From:David Zicarelli <zicarell@CYCLING74.COM>
Subject: Re: Floating, lost ...

Dmitri Tymoczko <tymoczko@UCLINK4.BERKELEY.EDU> writes:

>"iter" doesn't work with floats ...

Current versions of Max come with an iter that works with
floats.

>the "max" message to coll doesn't work with floats ...

True. That can probably be fixed.

A major floatization of Max may occur in the near future.
I hope to make working with floats more of a pleasure.
Stay tuned.

David Z.

------------------------------

Date:Tue, 7 Dec 1999 00:52:44 -0500
From:Christopher Murtagh <chris@MUSIC.MCGILL.CA>
Subject: Re: Pace and Revrdist?????

On Mon, 6 Dec 1999, dudas wrote:
>
> Does anyone in a big academic institution have to deal with Max and MSP
> installed on a large number of computers that is automatically maintained
> by a so-called "maintenance program"??
>
> Are there any caveats? Anything we should know about how Pace works under
> conditions like this?

Hi Richard,

We had problems like this in our lab at McGill (Mac labs are a real pain
aren't they?). We tried using revrdist's competition 'Assimilator'. For
the most part, it worked quite well, but not without its own problems.
There is also Jon Ostrowick (in South Africa) who has a freeware package
that does all this when working with a UNIX server. It was supposed to be
the best, but due to his time comittments, he has decided to no longer
support it. Anyway, from my understanding with revrdist, it is somewhat
complicated to setup (compared to assimilator) but very flexible and works
well. Just make sure you tell the software not to erase your Pace keys
(invisible and at root level of the HD).


Instead, what we have moved to is MacLogin, and we keep logs of who is on
what machine. This way if something goes really wrong, we can slap the
wrists of the offending student. So far, we haven't had the need, looks
like the fear of getting caught was enough. Our lab moves to OS9 (with
built in multi-user) in 13 days which hopefully will resolve this once and
for all.

Cheers,

Chris

------------------------------

Date:Tue, 7 Dec 1999 12:20:35 +0100
From:Suzan Erkalp <erkalp@RD.GRAME.FR>
Subject: Compatibility MSP/Digi001 ?

Hello,
I would like to know if someone has tested MSP with the new Digidesign
interface : Digi001. And what are the results ? Can I buy this interface
and use Max/MSP like before ?
Suzan

------------------------------

Date:Tue, 7 Dec 1999 08:40:18 -0500
From:Bob Gluck <gluckr@RPI.EDU>
Subject: Teaching-related questions

Two questions that have emerged from my work teaching undergrads, this
semester:

  1. I'm working with a sight-impaired student who is trying to figure out a
    way to access Max. She has a PC. I have never seen pd, but from what I've
    read, it seems that this might be the most text driven of the options. She
    has a line reader (which 'reads' aloud to her and it doesn't fair too well
    with a graphical interface). She has been able to work with an audio editor
    pretty well using the line reader. Anyone with experience in this regard or
    any thoughts on the matter?
  1. I have been strategizing ways to make Max seem more like something my
    students wouldn't want to miss working with. I spend the final weeks of
    each semester in my Electronic Music intro courses working with Max. At
    times, it is, frankly, a bit of a hard sell. A few take to it easily.
    Others would prefer going for a long December swim in the Atlantic. One
    thought I've had is to find musical examples, created with Max, that are
    less abstract and more tonal and familiar to them than anything that I
    personally create, to use as teaching examples. Any ideas?

Thanks,
Bob Gluck

http://www.rpi.edu/~gluckr/home.html

"Ancient sky watchers saw the heavens as a kind of cosmic sculpture garden,
eternal and unchanging. But modern astronomers who study huge explosions
called gamma ray bursts are discovering a universe that is more like a
wild, all-night disco party." (J. Glanz, NY Times, 10/26/99)

------------------------------

Date:Tue, 7 Dec 1999 14:59:45 +0100
From:Peter Castine <pcastine@PRZ.TU-BERLIN.DE>
Subject: Re: Floating, Floating, Floating ... (increasingly off-topic)-:

On around 7=AD12=AD1999 6:53, dudas said something like:


>kind of like learning to speak French, with all of those silly little
>silent letters all over the place... who could imagine that eau, haut, os,
>aux, and aulx are all homonyms??

And never mind the accents (which are driving my kid around the bend in
French class).

>or that you actually ARE supposed to
>pronounce the "z" in Boulez??!! The irony of it all!!

Well, names make for exceptional situations in a lot of languages. Even
German, generally reasonably orthographic, deviates from dictionary
collation rules in telefone books because you can have Mueller and M=FCller=

and there's no way of knowing which spelling is correct without asking
the namebearer. English is worse with it's plethora of names from
different ethnic backgrounds. There is the (famous? apocryphal?) anecdote
of the college prof. who was proud of his ability to pronounce names
correctly at first sight, but on taking attendance at the beginning of
one semester was surprised not to have any response to the (presumably
Polish) Bluesky. At the end of the lesson, a young man of apparently
Amerind origin comes up to mention that his name was not called. Blue Sky.


Tangentially,

Peter

----------------- http://www.prz.tu-berlin.de/~pcastine/-----------------
Dr. Peter Castine| The World-Wide Web Site of the 26th
4-15 Music & Technology| International Computer Music Conference is
| now on-line! <http://www.icmc2000.org/>
| Enjoy!

------------------------------

Date:Tue, 7 Dec 1999 15:10:26 +0100
From:"Dunskus, Bertram" <Bertram.Dunskus@PARTNER.COMMERZBANK.COM>
Subject: Motu 2408/324

Hello,

there is a beta version of the PCI-324 Driver for ASIO 2 available at MOTU.
Is MaxMSP compatible with ASIO 2? Should I stay with the original 324 driver
or try the beta version?

Quote from the website:
"This is a public beta PCI-324 ASIO 2 Driver for Mac. Please be aware that
this is pre-release software, and use it at your own risk. The driver adds
hardware monitoring and sample-accurate sync to ASIO 2 supported sequencers
like Steinberg's Cubase VST 4.1. "

Thank you for advice

Bertram Dunskus

------------------------------

Date:Tue, 7 Dec 1999 09:58:17 -0800
From:Peter Elsea <elsea@CATS.UCSC.EDU>
Subject: Floating, lost

>PS. I know that floats are evil and nobody's ever supposed to use them for
>anything, but they really are useful sometimes. Like for math.

James McCartney's Listiter will work with floats. So does iter, actually-


it's capture that doesn't work with floats, which leads to lots of
misunderstandings.....

Just for the record, all Lobjects work with floats (converting when
necessry), even Lcount, which will count with float increments. I'm slowly
converting them to deal more gracefully with symbols.

Peter Elsea
Director, Electronic Music Studios
University of California, Santa Cruz
http://arts.ucsc.edu/EMS/Music/index.html
elsea@cats.ucsc.edu

------------------------------

Date:Tue, 7 Dec 1999 10:06:35 -0700
From:jhno <ear@SIRIUS.COM>
Subject: Re: Floating, lost ...

>"iter" doesn't work with floats ...

the best solution i have found to this is to use an object like james
mccartney's "listiter". e.g. connect the output of a float multislider to
"listiter 1" and get a stream of floats...

>Who knows how many other objects don't make type conversions correctly, or
>are pointlessly limited to handling data of only one type?

remember you can shift-option-click on any objects to see the messages it
accepts - very handy.

whether an object handles floats is a design decision by its programmer. i
agree that with msp, float capabilities are increasingly desirable...

note that certain objects (e.g. swap) require special arguments to work in
"float mode".

finally, you can always build your own abstraction to do what you need. for
example, here is a floating-point version of "change" - which i use all the
time:

max v2;
#N vpatcher 152 113 410 426;
#P number 24 154 35 9 0 0 0 3;
#P newex 24 132 51 196617 * 10000.;
#P number 81 154 35 9 0 0 0 3;
#P newex 81 132 51 196617 * 10000.;
#N comlet set float and output;
#P inlet 147 95 15 0;
#P newex 81 75 40 196617 t f f f;
#P newex 62 199 44 196617 select 0;
#P newex 62 174 29 196617 == 0;
#P newex 92 227 29 196617 float;
#N comlet float out;
#P outlet 92 251 15 0;
#N comlet flout in to be undoubled;
#P inlet 81 53 15 0;
#P connect 5 1 9 0;
#P connect 9 0 10 0;
#P connect 10 0 3 0;
#P connect 3 0 4 0;
#P connect 0 0 5 0;
#P connect 6 0 7 0;
#P connect 5 0 7 0;
#P connect 7 0 8 0;
#P connect 8 0 3 1;
#P connect 6 0 2 0;


#P connect 4 0 2 0;
#P connect 2 0 1 0;
#P connect 5 2 2 1;
#P pop;

best regards,
jhno

() ))(((( ))) ))))) ( )((()) (( ))( )) (((( )(()( (()
delicate earear@sirius.com
san francisco, cahttp://www.sirius.com/~ear

------------------------------

Date:Tue, 7 Dec 1999 11:18:06 -0700
From:Alex Stahl <alex@PIXAR.COM>
Subject: Re : G4 Installation problems+ MAX and USB compatibility?

Well, it sounds like enough people have Max/MSP running on G4's that it
might be worth asking what kind of performance you're getting. Does anyone
have a sense of the CPU utilization estimates, running the same patch on a
G3 and one of the new-motherboard G4's? I realize the current release isn't
G4-optimized or whatever, but still.

thanks
Alex Stahl

------------------------------

Date:Tue, 7 Dec 1999 16:37:42 -0500
From:Christopher Murtagh <chris@MUSIC.MCGILL.CA>
Subject: Re: Teaching-related questions

On Tue, 7 Dec 1999, Bob Gluck wrote:
> Others would prefer going for a long December swim in the Atlantic. One
> thought I've had is to find musical examples, created with Max, that are
> less abstract and more tonal and familiar to them than anything that I
> personally create, to use as teaching examples. Any ideas?

You should seriously check out jhno's stuff (http://www.sirius.com/~ear),
and maybe he'll let you know how some of it was done (he's on this list).
I bought a CD of his (awesome stuff) this September, and it has been a big
hit at parties etc.. His live stuff was also really cool, groove based,
very accessible and very MAX/MSP-ish. Well worth the listen even if you
don't use it with your students.

Cheers,

Chris

------------------------------

Date:Tue, 7 Dec 1999 17:11:03 -0800
From:Jason Proctor <jproctor@BEARRIVER.COM>
Subject: Writing applications with Max

Hello everyone. I'm a newbie on the Max list, and I was going to lurk for a
while and filterfeed through the traffic to get a gist of things here
before asking my question. However, there hasn't been a single post come
through since I joined, so I thought what the hell...

I'm looking at Max as a possible solution to a problem I have with music
software at the moment - none of it works the way I want it to. I know how
I'd like a step-time sequencer to work, and nothing does it. I know how I'd
like a voice editor for my synths to work, and nothing does it.
Conceivably, given that I'm a programmer by trade and know my way around
MIDI, I could write a sequencer and a voice editor, but I'd rather use that


time to write music.

So how does Max work? Information on Max, mainly on the web, indicates that
it's "flexible", "powerful", a "kitchen" where other software is a "frozen
pizza", etc, but doesn't actually go into how it works or the nitty gritty
of how one would actually write a Max application. Is this information
available anywhere, in the form of a downloadable manual perhaps? There
isn't even a demo, and $500 or thereabouts is a lot to spend if it turns
out that it isn't capable of doing what I want.

Thanks in advance.

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End of MAX Digest - 6 Dec 1999 to 7 Dec 1999 (#1999-349)
********************************************************