Subject: MAX Digest - 18 Nov 1999 to 19 Nov 1999 (#1999-331)
Date: Sat, 20 Nov 1999 00:00:33 -0500
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There are 17 messages totalling 455 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. sucking down audio streams (2)
  2. powerpc version can't read old format files (3)
  3. Error code 11 using hide/show on lock in MAX 3.5.9-9
  4. Sequencer with time indexing (2)
  5. pasture time: lib
  6. WANTED: advanced wireless motion tracking
  7. Fwd: undulate
  8. sucking audio streams
  9. Spaces in Pathnames
  10. various time issues
  11. unsolicited review: nato.0+55+3d+vd
  12. max+reaktor
  13. USB-Audio interface


Date:Thu, 18 Nov 1999 21:35:18 -0800
From:David Zicarelli <zicarell@CYCLING74.COM>
Subject: Re: sucking down audio streams

deKam <johnny@NODE.NET> writes:

>RealAudio, QuickTime streaming etc... provide no means of saving a stream to
>disk (on purpose) -- they want to keep it 'temporary' to eliminate the
>ability for any chump to redistribute content.
>I have an interest in subverting the routine... and it would seem that since
>this audio data is going through the sound manager that MSP might be up to
>the task.
>does anyone have any thoughts on how to intercept another application's
>audio streams into (or out of) the sound manager?

I believe MOTU has a feature available in Digital Performer 2.6
where you can send the Sound Manager output of anything
into it. I was told that internally this feature was called

So it can be done. I haven't figured out how to do it, but
I want to subvert as much as possible too within the limits of
my korporat facscist mentality, so I'm into trying to figure out
how to do it.

David Z.


Date:Thu, 18 Nov 1999 21:39:07 -0800
From:David Zicarelli <zicarell@CYCLING74.COM>
Subject: Re: powerpc version can't read old format files

James Forrest <jaf249@IS9.NYU.EDU> writes:

>Something crazy just happened with a patch I was working on using
>Max 3.5.8. I tried saving a table I was using as a file called

>decvoltable.t, and creating an object called [table decvoltable.t].
>Now whenever I try to load my patch, an error comes up in the max
>window that says, "error: PowerPC version can't read old format
I have a feeling that decvoltable.t is the culprit for
>whatever strange reason, but I can't get back into my file to change it!

This bug was fixed in Max 3.5.9-9 or maybe earlier. Your table
file is corrupt and you'll never get the data back, but
removing the file should at least let you open your patch.

David Z.


Date:Thu, 18 Nov 1999 22:06:58 -0800
From:David Zicarelli <zicarell@CYCLING74.COM>
Subject: Re: Error code 11 using hide/show on lock in MAX 3.5.9-9

Benjamin Thigpen <Benjamin.Thigpen@IRCAM.FR> writes:

>In fact I had this (or a similar) problem recently. At the moment of
>saving the patch, Max would crash (I forget the error code), the Mac would
>crash, and the patch would become unreadable. After rebuilding the patch
>numerous times only to lose it at the same point, I finally tracked the
>problem down to the number~ object. Hiding this object and then trying to
>save the patch systematically produced the crash.

I can't reproduce this on my own machine, but if anyone has
one of these "special" crashing number~ objects they'd like
to send me, feel free to do so.

David Z.


Date:Fri, 19 Nov 1999 04:54:45 -0500
From:Ed Hartley <e-hartiey@WORLDNET.ATT.NET>
Subject: Sequencer with time indexing

Try Eric Singer's SeqPlayer. It's the goods.

"Dr. Teeth" <steven@CIRCUSMUSIC.COM> wrote:
>Hey there Maxheads. I need some advice. I need a Max object (or collection
>of objects) that will play a standard MIDI sequence and that will let me
>jump to specific points in the sequence at will - probably by feeding it a
>time index of some sort. I don't think seq or mtr will let you do
>this. Any ideas?


Date:Fri, 19 Nov 1999 07:01:47 +0000
From:Steve Smith <sfsmith@IDIRECT.COM>
Subject: sucking down audio streams

I've recorded from RealAudio by taking the sterio out of the mac and going
to the sterio in and recording it all using Logic. No problem.

I use a Mac G3 Powerbook - basic 233 mhz model running Max OS 8.1
I recorded onto a LaCie 4.5 gig HD

Bon Chance!



Date:Fri, 19 Nov 1999 14:36:54 +0100
From:Johan van Kreij <j.vankreij@TELE2.NL>
Subject: Re: powerpc version can't read old format files

>I have a feeling that decvoltable.t is the culprit for whatever
>strange reason,
>but I can't get back into my file to change it!

You could by opening it as text. That works after having edited a patch into
a selfdestructing one (did that many times).



Date:Fri, 19 Nov 1999 11:00:50 -0500
From:Eric Singer <eric@ERICSINGER.COM>
Subject: Re: Sequencer with time indexing

At 12:13 PM -0500 11/18/99, Dr. Teeth wrote:
>Hey there Maxheads. I need some advice. I need a Max object (or collection
>of objects) that will play a standard MIDI sequence and that will let me
>jump to specific points in the sequence at will - probably by feeding it a
>time index of some sort. I don't think seq or mtr will let you do
>this. Any ideas?

My object "SeqPlayer" - you'll find it at



Date:Fri, 19 Nov 1999 11:45:30 -0500
From:sean paul zitello <spazello@MINDSPRING.COM>
Subject: Re: pasture time: lib

I have used lib and found it quite useful though
unable to piece together new banks from various
patches spread over many bank was the one function
I'd never quite figured out and was wondering if
anyone has actually written a patch or object.

But really my main question here regards Mr.
Zicarelli, Cycling74, and Opcode and the
relationships therein. I've always been a bit a
bit confused as the whether or not MAX as a whole
is still a "live" product, with new versions
planned, consistency/standards between objects,
etc. etc. It seems people are always asking David
Z for a fix but are therse MAX upgrades or
Cycling74 products or just aa favor of the author
to the community? Is there anyone at Opcode who
in charge of the MAX product development? The lib
question really begs the broader question if in
fact all of MAX should be opened up ala LINUX.

sean paul zitello


Date:Fri, 19 Nov 1999 18:27:07 +0100
Subject: Re: powerpc version can't read old format files


I'm not sure, but if things (subpatches, colls, tables, etc.) are in a
subfolder, they sometimes do not load correctly or do not load at all.
(I had this experience with coll files several times.)
I also had a problem if the files are outside of Max search path and still
in the same folder as the main patcher.

Make a folder named patches inside the Max folder and add this to the
search path by adding :patches to the file preferences. And didn't use
subfolders, just all the files plain in one folder (which is a mess, I

Try it and please report to the list if this worked for you...

BTW, I'm using the bundle with Max 3.5.9 and MSP 1.1.




Date:Fri, 19 Nov 1999 11:52:22 +0100
From:Gerhard Eckel <eckel@GMD.DE>
Subject: WANTED: advanced wireless motion tracking


*** Please excuse eventual multiple positing of this message ***

For an advanced audio virtual reality project we are looking for a
motion tracking system with the following characteristics:

- up to 8 persons should be tracked independetly in a larger room
(16m x 16m x 6m)
- for each person's head we need track:
- the 2d position (x, y) with a resolution of 10cm and at a rate of 5 Hz
- the horizontal orientation (azimuth) with a resolution of 5 degrees
and at a rate of 30 Hz
- the tracking system has to be wirless and non-intrusive
(is to be built into a light headset)
- the system has to be operational latest by mid 2002 and usable
for a public installation in a museum

We are looking for:

- a company selling a product with these characteristics (or close to it)
- a research lab or company interested in developing such a tracking
system in an EU-funded cooperation project (IST, 5th Framework Programme)

Thank you for any information helping us to locate a partner for our project.

Best regards,

Gerhard Eckel

Institute for Media Communication (IMK.VE)
GMD - German National Research Center for Information Technology
Schloss Birlinghoven, D-53754 Sankt Augustin, Germany
TEL +49(2241)14-2968,
FAX +49(2241)14-2040,


Date:Fri, 19 Nov 1999 10:44:39 -0500

From:=?iso-8859-1?Q?Barne=E9?= <lebarn@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Fwd: undulate

>iEAR - typed
>I'm a musician involved in interactive multi-media performance. I teach in
>the integrated electronic arts program at RPI (iEAR), I think you know of
>Johnny DeKam who recently graduated from our program and now is teaching
>with us as well as being an active performer with NATO. We have an
>interdisciplinary program involved in music, video, performance and
>installation art, 2d/3d graphics, net-art, robotics etc.
>After working with Johnny I was convinced that NATO should become a
>standard aspect of our software platform. I
asked the dept. to buy an
>evaluation copy recently which I have just started working with. I think
>it's great - probably the best work that has been brought into the MAX
>community since MSP.

nato swims in the mainstream?
are any other institutions using nato 0+55 in their course offerings? I
would be interested to know if there is someone in my area doing so.



Date:Fri, 19 Nov 1999 12:17:12 -0500
From:Joshua Fried <joshua@ECHONYC.COM>
Subject: Re: sucking audio streams

I just did this last night, flawlessly, using Motu's new 'audio tap', part
of their new MAS. don't know how this would be done in MSP though.

The MOTU system allows one to record the output of any 'sound manager


Date:Fri, 19 Nov 1999 14:07:55 EST
Subject: Re: Spaces in Pathnames

There are several ways around this. Stephen Kay's "ListtoSymbol" works well.
You can also use Stephen Ellison's "atoi" (ASCII to integer ) and then "itoa"
(integer to ASCII), then prepend read. This will do the same job.


Date:Fri, 19 Nov 1999 11:32:34 -0800
From:Peter Elsea <elsea@CATS.UCSC.EDU>
Subject: various time issues

pasture time?
>I'm thinking it might be time to put the lib object and its
>friends out of their misery.

I'd say it's well past time-
Provided you give us a spreadsheet like gizmo- an array of cells that we
can dynamically update, and would report changes made by the user. A view
into a coll would be perfect.

What time is it?

>However, Vision doesn't send out a time signal every millisecond, as far
>as I can tell.
If you are using the iac buss to get MTC from vision, you should get a
quarter frame message every 8 ms or so. If you are using timein, you get a
value at the update rate you set. Midi time code (or SMPTE) isn't designed
for continuous time lock, the idea is to trigger events at specific
moments. Line is much more useful for millisecond processes.

Sequencer with time indexing
>I need a Max object that will play a standard MIDI sequence and that will
>let me
>jump to specific points in the sequence at will
Using timeout to control Vision as I mentioned yesterday, you have accsss
to all of Vision's features, which is probably why there has been little
interest in writing a full sequencer in Max. Now that the future of Vision
is in doubt, maybe we ought to reconsider.
To cue up and play vision from Max
Set vision to internal clock and remote start
input an int to timeout that is equal to the frame number * 80 (if 30
frames/second and you want to start one minute into the sequence, input
start timeout.

Peter Elsea
Director, Electronic Music Studios
University of California, Santa Cruz


Date:Fri, 19 Nov 1999 15:08:50 -0500
From:Curtis Bahn <bahnc2@RPI.EDU>
Subject: unsolicited review: nato.0+55+3d+vd

I just purchased nato.0+55+3d+vd and I'm very impressed with the power of
antiorp's new object for multi-media performance. I'm just beginning to crack
the 300-some commands available to the object but already am able to do things
within MAX that I've been trying to do between MAX and other applications for
years (imagine, expose, PD). The manual pages and ordering process are a bit
cryptic but surprisingly clear once you get in to it. Overall, I think it's one
of the most significant additions to the MAX externals folder since MSP. To
paraphrase what (s)he might say: "Cultural DNA infusion into academic
institutions seems evident..."

Curtis Bahn
Asst. Prof of Computer Music Performance
Integrated Electronic Arts at Rensselaer, iEAR studios

more info on nato:


Date:Sat, 20 Nov 1999 09:02:41 +1100
From:newton armstrong <newton@HARD.NET.AU>
Subject: max+reaktor

is anybody using max with reaktor?

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Date:Sat, 20 Nov 1999 01:13:58 +0100
From:greg <grego@RHIZ.ORG>
Subject: USB-Audio interface

for all who are working on an laptop with usb:

i just got a mail from another mailinglist:

>Gibt es alternative USB/Audio Konverter?

hier ist einer:

viele gruesse

is there anybody who have heard about swissonic or about the interface
called swissonic usb studio?
costs are about 600/850 $ +tax.
featers sounds great, but who knows ...


p.s.: thanks for all replays about midi-controller last days.


End of MAX Digest - 18 Nov 1999 to 19 Nov 1999 (#1999-331)