Subject: MAX Digest - 17 Nov 1999 to 18 Nov 1999 (#1999-330)
Date: Fri, 19 Nov 1999 00:00:23 -0500
Automatic digest processor <LISTSERV@LISTS.MCGILL.CA>
Reply-To: MAX - Interactive Music/Multimedia Standard Environments <MAX@LISTS.MCGILL.CA>
To: Recipients of MAX digests <MAX@LISTS.MCGILL.CA>

There are 11 messages totalling 348 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. sucking down audio streams
  2. pasture time?
  3. Error code 11 using hide/show on lock in MAX 3.5.9-9
  4. What time is it?
  5. re Cello mics (2)
  6. powerpc version can't read old format files (2)
  7. Sequencer with time indexing
  8. pathways
  9. streaks left when moving patchcords


Date:Wed, 17 Nov 1999 20:39:07 -0500
From:deKam <johnny@NODE.NET>
Subject: sucking down audio streams

RealAudio, QuickTime streaming etc... provide no means of saving a stream to
disk (on purpose) -- they want to keep it 'temporary' to eliminate the
ability for any chump to redistribute content.

I have an interest in subverting the routine... and it would seem that since
this audio data is going through the sound manager that MSP might be up to
the task.

does anyone have any thoughts on how to intercept another application's
audio streams into (or out of) the sound manager?

there is the obvious thing of plugging a stereo mini cable patch from the
out to the in... but is this asking for trouble? (or do I just need to be
careful about what I patch together in MSP after this hack?

is there a software only solution? other thoughts?



Date:Wed, 17 Nov 1999 22:31:27 -0800
From:David Zicarelli <zicarell@CYCLING74.COM>
Subject: pasture time?

I'm thinking it might be time to put the lib object and its
friends out of their misery. In other words, these objects
would become unsupported and I'd probably upload the source
for anyone who wanted to mess with them.

Any objections?

David Z.


Date:Thu, 18 Nov 1999 11:08:08 +0100
From:Benjamin Thigpen <Benjamin.Thigpen@IRCAM.FR>
Subject: Re: Error code 11 using hide/show on lock in MAX 3.5.9-9

Domenico Sciajno wrote:

>has someone else experienced the max appl crashing declaring Error code 11
>when trying to save a patch after using hide/show on lock (MAX 3.5.9-9).
>that never happened to me with previous versions.
>the worst is that after that the all patch becames unreadable then lost.
>i'd like to know if this is happening only to me, if someone else had the
>same and of course in someone has a solution for it!

In fact I had this (or a similar) problem recently. At the moment of
saving the patch, Max would crash (I forget the error code), the Mac would
crash, and the patch would become unreadable. After rebuilding the patch
numerous times only to lose it at the same point, I finally tracked the
problem down to the number~ object. Hiding this object and then trying to
save the patch systematically produced the crash.

I tested the same thing on another machine and it worked fine. So I
replaced my number~ object with a copy of the one on the other machine
(same creation date and time) and the problem was solved. I then tested on
a number of other machines here at Ircam and found this problem on some but
not on others.

SO, maybe an object (number~ or other) has become corrupted. If you can
figure out which one, try replacing it. Or just reinstall Max.

Hoping you don't lose as much time on this as I did,



Date:Thu, 18 Nov 1999 14:39:21 +0100
From:Jeffrey Burns <jeff@BERLIN.SNAFU.DE>
Subject: What time is it?

Peter Elsea wrote:

>You can also use Vision to pass timecode in and out of the the computer by
>setting it up to both receive and send sync. You can control Vision
>max with the timeout object- just set Vision
to Remote start and internal

I've tried out this technique and it works. However, Vision doesn't send
out a time signal every millisecond, as far as I can tell. So, to get Max
objects to work from the Vision time code just as they do from Max timing,
the milliseconds have to be interpolated using the line object. If that has
to be done anyway, wouldn't it be easier to use the clock I recommended in
MAX Digest - 7 Nov 1999 to 8 Nov 1999 (#1999-321), which takes advantage of
line to produce milliseconds and doesn't necessitate running another

Where is QuickTime getting its timing from? If a midi or sound or movie
file is played as a qt file on the movie or nato object, is the timing
accurate regardless of the processing load? Maybe, an accurate millisecond
clock could be constructed from the midi track of a looped qt file played
by movie??

Jeff Burns


Date:Wed, 17 Nov 1999 21:57:57 -0400

From:Dafna Naphtali <dafna.naphtali@NYU.EDU>
Subject: Re: re Cello mics

Can anyone share experiences/comments on microphones for cello for
the purposes of pitch tracking? (a different mic could be used for
sound reinforcement if necessary in this project)

Dafna Naphtali

> >bonjour,
> >I'm looking for a microphone for cello, has anybody experiences with
> >that?...
> >Thank you
>I've used a variety of mics with the cello in a live situation. The best is
>to use two:
>one in close, the other
50-100cm away. The "air" micgets the lighter sounds
>less weighted by the reverberant wooden body.
>I also use the cheapest piezo pickups to get percussive effects
>and for use at very high PA levels when feedback would be a limitation.
>Choice of mics depends on your application and
>whether you can afford to ride the gain.
>In my case Im not looking just for a realistic cello but
>for a rich acoustic "source" for DSP work.
>Currently I use the extraordiary new DanishProAuadio (formerly B&K)
>mineature microphone series.
>but Sennheiser mineatures and even a Sony ECM66 have worked when my budget
>was more resticted.
>I prefer sensitive mics even though
feedback is a problem
>just because the richness of the sound is worth the trouble.
>A limiter is very useful when you want to get in close
>to the rich
world of the detache bow
>with out the danger of blowing everything away when the player digs into
>the strings.
>Its important to remember the placement of the mic
>is as important as the choice. When you get close a small change can make
>a big difference in the sound.
>joel ryan
>Joel Ryan
>STEIM :: Ballett Frankfurt :: Institute of Sonology
>Achtergracht 19, 1017WL Amsterdam
>+31 (20) 624-3886
>+31 (20) 626-4262


Date:Thu, 18 Nov 1999 11:53:19 -0500
From:James Forrest <jaf249@IS9.NYU.EDU>
Subject: powerpc version can't read old format files


Something crazy just happened with a patch I was working on using Max 3.5.8.
I tried saving a table I was using as a file called decvoltable.t, and
creating an
object called [table decvoltable.t]. Now whenever I try to load my patch,

an error
comes up in the max window that says, "error: PowerPC version can't read old
files"I have a feeling that decvoltable.t is the culprit for whatever
strange reason,
but I can't get back into my file to change it!

Has anyone ever seen this??

Very frustrated, and hoping that I won't have to start my patch from
Jamie Forrest

P.S. Please reply to me directly, in addition to the list, because I need to
fix this asap.


Date:Thu, 18 Nov 1999 09:13:47 -0800
From:"Dr. Teeth" <steven@CIRCUSMUSIC.COM>
Subject: Sequencer with time indexing

Hey there Maxheads. I need some advice. I need a Max object (or collection
of objects) that will play a standard MIDI sequence and that will let me
jump to specific points in the sequence at will - probably by feeding it a
time index of some sort. I don't think seq or mtr will let you do
this. Any ideas?


Date:Thu, 18 Nov 1999 19:57:31 +0100
From:Oeyvind Brandtsegg <obrandts@ONLINE.NO>
Subject: Re: powerpc version can't read old format files

just a shot in the dark:
how about deleting the corrupted table file (decvoltable.t),
or moving it to a folder where Max can't find it.
That should lead to a more innocent warning message as
warning: decvoltable.t: can' open

if I'm not completely mistaken...
Oeyvind Brandtsegg

James Forrest wrote:

> an object called [table decvoltable.t]. Now whenever I try to load my patch,
> an error comes up in the max window that says, "error: PowerPC version can't
> read old
> format files"


Date:Thu, 18 Nov 1999 11:58:53 -0800
From:"Michael P. Whyte" <matrix6k@YAHOO.COM>
Subject: Re: re Cello mics

Speaking of Pitch Tracking....What is the object that you use for determining the frequency of
audio? I was thinking about using fft, but doesn't that just give you the amount of particular
frequencies? I was thinking about an object that gives an indication of how many times a sine
wave crosses the "zero" line into the positive domain- the more it crosses, the higher the
This is like the nord's pulse object. I have a feeling the answer is obvious and I'm gonna feel
silly, but...any ideas?


Do You Yahoo!?
Bid and sell for free at


Date:Thu, 18 Nov 1999 14:04:14 +0100
From:Werner Funk <werner.funk@T-ONLINE.DE>
Subject: Re: pathways

Automatic digest processor schrieb:

> Date:Thu, 11 Nov 1999 23:40:42 +0000
> From:
Michael Alcorn <alcorn@SOUNDIN.DNET.CO.UK>
> Subject: pathways
> A simple question --
> A message box is connected to a sfplay~ object. The message box
> contains an 'open' command and an argument (a pathway to a soundfile).
> Can anyone tell me what the format is for this pathway -- I've tried
> HD:x:y:z:soundx & Macintosh HD:x:y:z:soundx (it definitely doesn't like
> this). (I think) I've searched high and low through the
> documentation...
> Many thanks
> Michael Alcorn

What about placing the soundfile in the same folder as your patcher? So
you don't need any pathway in your message.

- immer auf der Suche nach dem ultimativen Klang:
- toujours à la recherche d'un timbre sublime:
- siempre buscando al sonido puro:
- always working on a subtle sound:

Klangwerkstatt Werner Funk Stuttgart


Date:Thu, 18 Nov 1999 14:02:02 +0100
From:Werner Funk <werner.funk@T-ONLINE.DE>
Subject: Re: streaks left when moving patchcords

Peter Castine schrieb:

> Date:Fri, 12 Nov 1999 12:23:24 +0100
> From:
Peter Castine <pcastine@PRZ.TU-BERLIN.DE>
> Subject: Re: streaks left when moving patchcords

> Just guessing: OS 8.6+, Control Panels->Appearance->Fonts->Smooth all
> fonts on screen.
> Try turning off the check box.
> A similar anomaly occurs w/Finale, has been well documented, and is asked
> frequently nonetheless.
> Hope this helps,
> Peter

Doesn't work, sorry.

- immer auf der Suche nach dem ultimativen Klang:
- toujours à la recherche d'un timbre sublime:
- siempre buscando al sonido puro:
- always working on a subtle sound:

Klangwerkstatt Werner Funk Stuttgart


End of MAX Digest - 17 Nov 1999 to 18 Nov 1999 (#1999-330)