Subject: MAX Digest - 16 Nov 1999 to 17 Nov 1999 (#1999-329)
Date: Thu, 18 Nov 1999 01:04:21 -0800
"Jon Witte" <>
To: <jonwitte@CYBERNEX.NET>

There are 15 messages totalling 495 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Slaving MAX's MIDI clock
  2. more than 8 channels?
  3. More than 8-Ch Out in MSP?
  4. timecode thru
  5. Input controllers
  6. re Cello mics
  7. low on memory
  8. Pluggo channels
  9. Error code 11 using hide/show on lock in MAX 3.5.9-9
  10. sampler
  11. List etiquette and other boring issues.
  12. time code thru
  13. authorize???
  14. RAMSA
  15. MSP with MacOS 9


Date:Mon, 15 Nov 1999 22:32:44 -0000
From:Nick Rothwell <
Subject: Re: Slaving MAX's MIDI clock

> I would like to use an external source for a master metronome. I
> see that its possible, but only by using Apple's MIDI manager. I
> need background MIDI functionality, so this won't work for me.

I don't understand the line of reasoning here. The way I recorded my
album was to have an ADAT BRC generate MIDI timecode, send that via a
Studio 4 and OMS to Vision, and then have Vision send out beat clock
via MIDI Manager to MAX, so that the clock divider objects could deal
with it.

This was all pretty old technology as well - everything running on an
SE/30. (Come to think of it, I haven't actually upgraded any of my
music software since then - still on MAX 3.0, Vision 2.0.8, OMS

By the way: thanks to those folks asking about the clock following
objects. I'm planning to get the things documented and uploaded to the
web site fairly soon.


Nick Limited
systems - composition - installation - performance


Date:Wed, 17 Nov 1999 00:41:51 +0100
From:Melvyn Poore <

Subject: Re: more than 8 channels?


> Can Max be used with more than 8 channels output? I guess not, because the
> dac~ object only has 8 channels.

Have you tried using a second dac~ with higher channel numbers? If your
hardware supports up to 16 i/o channels (for example, the Sonorus Studi/o),
msp can use them. Check out the msp manual pages for adc~ and dac~.

Melvyn Poore
Uferstrasse 166
D-53859 Niederkassel

Tel: +49-2208-911217
Fax: +49-2208-911218
see also:


Date:Tue, 16 Nov 1999 17:19:28 -0800
From:Matt Wright <
Subject: Re: More than 8-Ch Out in MSP?

"Dunskus, Bertram" wonders:
> Can Max be used with more than 8 channels output? I guess not, because the
> dac~ object only has 8 channels.

No problem, just use more than one dac~ object. Each one can only
access up to 8 channels, but with "dac~ 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8" and
"dac~ 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16" you've got 16. We do this all the
time at CNMAT with the MOTU 2408 (which gives you up to 24 channels of
simultaneous I/O.)



Date:Wed, 17 Nov 1999 06:33:29 +0100
From:Jeffrey Burns <
Subject: timecode thru

>Why does Max's midiin strip the time code? I want to echo the MTC
>coming in to a midi output. A simple midiin -> midiout doesn't do it. There
>must be an easy way.

Jeff Burns


Date:Tue, 16 Nov 1999 22:46:31 -0700
From:Adam Schabtach <

Subject: Re: Input controllers

> Does anybody have any drivers for USB HID in Max?
> If not, would it be worth developing an Apple Game Sprocket to Max
> conversion object? That way, all sorts of controllers on the Mac could be
> used with Max! I already sifted through the various SDK's, but I have never
> developed in any of these.

Since you mentioned it...

I have written some Max objects that receive data from devices that use
Apple's Input Sprocket drivers. This includes USB devices. I need to verify
that they still work after Apple's recent revision to the Sprockets, but
once that's done I will make them available for beta testing.

If you would like to help test these objects, please send me a brief note
stating your interest and describing what hardware/software you have
available for testing (i.e. brand and model of controller(s), Macintosh
model(s), OS version(s)).

Thank you in advance for your interest.


Adam Schabtach


Date:Tue, 16 Nov 1999 22:47:03 +0100
From:joel ryan <
Subject: re Cello mics

>I'm looking for a microphone for cello, has anybody experiences with
>Thank you

I've used a variety of mics with the cello in a live situation. The best is
to use two:
one in close, the other50-100cm away. The "air" micgets the lighter sounds
less weighted by the reverberant wooden body.
I also use the cheapest piezo pickups to get percussive effects
and for use at very high PA levels when feedback would be a limitation.
Choice of mics depends on your application and
whether you can afford to ride the gain.

In my case Im not looking just for a realistic cello but
for a rich acoustic "source" for DSP work.
Currently I use the extraordiary new DanishProAuadio (formerly B&K)
mineature microphone series.
but Sennheiser mineatures and even a Sony ECM66 have worked when my budget
was more resticted.
I prefer sensitive mics even thoughfeedback is a problem
just because the richness of the sound is worth the trouble.

A limiter is very useful when you want to get in close
to the richworld of the detache bow
with out the danger of blowing everything away when the player digs into
the strings.

Its important to remember the placement of the mic
is as important as the choice. When you get close a small change can make
a big difference in the sound.
joel ryan

Joel Ryan
STEIM :: Ballett Frankfurt :: Institute of Sonology
Achtergracht 19, 1017WL Amsterdam
+31 (20) 624-3886
+31 (20) 626-4262fax


Date:Wed, 17 Nov 1999 14:45:39 +0100
From:Suzan Erkalp <
Subject: low on memory

I have frequently crashes since I have updated my system. On a 8600
Powermac, 128 MO RAM, 250 Hz, OS 8.6 and MaxFAT 3.5.9-9. I also use MSP.
The application Max quits frequently and asks for restart my computer after
the message low on memory. I gave about 40 Mo to Max and no other
application is running, so I don't understand why this error appears.
Before, I had Mac OS 8.0 and MaxFAT 3.5.9, and such problems neverappeared.
Is this due to the version of Max, or to the version of the OS system ? Or
both together ?



Date:Wed, 17 Nov 1999 09:54:36 +0100
From:"Dunskus, Bertram" <
Subject: Re: Pluggo channels


David answered to my question:

>>in sifting through the Pluggo SDK it seemed to me that Pluggo only
>>two channels of I/O. Is this correct? I would love to avoid this
>>because I need to convert my MSP patch to an 8-In 8-Out VST Plugin.
>>Is there a chance that in a later version we may get this functionality?
>As soon as I see a host that supports more than two channels, sure.
>In the meantime, use PluggoBus.

However, I'm not quite sure I understand. Both MAS and VST 2.0 seem to
support multichannel I/O according to the SDK Documents. Is it a problem of
the sequencing software, i.e. Logic Audio, Cubase, Performer?

Thanks for clarifying,

  1. Dunskus


Date:Wed, 17 Nov 1999 12:10:20 +0100
From:Domenico Sciajno <
Subject: Error code 11 using hide/show on lock in MAX 3.5.9-9

hi everybody,

i just subscribed and i like to say hullo to you all, and thanks to those
who made this list possible.

has someone else experienced the max appl crashing declaring Error code 11
when trying to save a patch after using hide/show on lock (MAX 3.5.9-9).
that never happened to me with previous versions.

the worst is that after that the all patch becames unreadable then lost.

i'd like to know if this is happening only to me, if someone else had the
same and of course in someone has a solution for it!


Domenico Sciajno


Date:Wed, 17 Nov 1999 08:40:17 -0800
From:Matt Wright <
Subject: Re: sampler

Ages ago, while I was in Asia, Benjamin Nevile/Towers Perrin
nevileb@TOWERS.COM> asked:

> Can MSP do a good job as a sampler? I guess the three primary difficulties
> would be response time, polyphony and reliability.

Many intelligent responses to BN/TP's message addressed these points, but I
feel compelled to plug my "Max/MSP Sampler" that I showed in CNMAT's 1999
Max/MSP Night School (http://cnmat.CNMAT.Berkeley.EDU/Max/NightSchool99)

It contains a few different solutions to the polyphony difficulty, including a
version where the numeric argument to a patcher specifies the number of voices
of polyphony. (!)(I did it with "pcontrol", loading N instances of the "one
voice of sample playback" patch and connecting everything with
automatically-generated send/receive names.)

> I guess the next step would be to create some sort of interface or translating
> program to allow MSP to play standard samples (AKAI format, for example).
> I don't suppose that's been done... ?

My implementation uses collections to specify multisamples: each item contains
the name of the sound file, the nominal original pitch (as a floating point
MIDI note number), and the lower boundary of the region of the pitch axis that
is "covered" by this sample.

> I realize this type of simple function may be 'beneath' the full potential
> of MSP

Not at all; having this functionality in an MSP patch allows a lot of
interesting integration with the rest of the environment. (Max algorithms to
generate control data, MSP processing of the output, and customizing the patch

for nefarious purposes all come to mind.)

> but there's a $2000 piece of gear in my rack that I'd love to sell if
> its essential functions can be replicated in software.

Indeed, the pragmatic arguments are compelling. I originally wrote it so
CNMAT's "Musical Applications of Computers and Related Technologies" course
could move off SampleCell and be oriented more towards Max/MSP.



Date:Wed, 17 Nov 1999 11:56:08 -0500
From:Christopher Murtagh <
Subject: List etiquette and other boring issues.

Hi gang,

Just a friendly reminder of a few things:

- When you post to the MAX list, please make the subject something
that relates to your posting. This will increase the chances that
your posting will be read as well as makes it easier for people who
are looking for info on a particular subject (especially when
searching archives). So, please, no subjects like ' Re: MAX Digest -
28 Oct 1999 ... etc'

- Please keep quoting to as little as possible, and do not quote the
entire message if it isn't necessary.

and, at the request ofantiorp / =cw4t7abs / integer / netochka /
whoever,a little reminder:

Posting messages *about* this individual's work (such as nato.+55 or
MAX patches) is perfectly acceptable on the MAX list (please do so in
your own words). Posting about this individual's attacks on other
lists (or the MAX list), or social propaganda is best to be discussed
elsewhere. Reposting and/or forwarding this person's email will still
be blocked. If ever you are in doubt, please ask me.

If you have any issues/concerns/questions regarding any of the
above, please email me and we can discuss it.


MAX list admin


Date:Wed, 17 Nov 1999 11:39:23 -0800
From:Peter Elsea <
Subject: time code thru

>Why does Max's midiin strip the time code? I want to echo the MTC
>coming in to a midi output. A simple midiin -> midiout doesn't do it. There
>must be an easy way.

Unfortunately, it's midiout that strips the timecode. Midiin will give you
raw timecode (and tcinor timein will give you processed timecode) but OMS

will not accept timecode from Max.

There are some workarounds. If you have (for instance) a studio 64XTC, you
can use OMS setup to route timecode directly from one port to
another.(Older versions of Max can do this with midi manager) In addtition,
you can make the 64 generate time code under max control. OMS will create a
port named Studio 64XTC. If you assign that as port t, you can read the
time code (generated or external) with midiin t. If you send Midi Machine
Commands to midiout t, you can control the generator. (There's a tutorial
on MMC and Max at

You can also use Vision to pass timecode in and out of the the computer by
setting it up to both receive and send sync. You can control Visionfrom
max with the timeout object- just set Visionto Remote start and internal
clock. In this case vision generates timecode for you. (Come to think of
it, timeout should control the 64XTC also- I'll give that a try soon and
report back.)

But if what you reallywant to do is switch external devices on and off by
using Max to interrupt the timecode, I can't think of a way to do that.

Peter Elsea
Director, Electronic Music Studios
University of California, Santa Cruz


Date:Wed, 17 Nov 1999 20:37:31 +0100
From:Kasper T Toeplitz <
Subject: authorize???

just a simple question about max/msp authorize process, just to understand=

I recently bought a "bronze" power book, no floppies. OK. My bundle comes
with a "key disquette", which I can not use in this case, BUT in the
"install" manual it is said that you can authorize an external hard disk,
so I connected my Power book as one to a desk top Mac, which "saw" it as an
extra hard disk - the max/msp folder was there, on the
powerBook-as-hard-disk, and not at all on the desktop machine. I authorized
it, it worked,but as soon as I disconnected the installation and wanted
to run the power book by itself, it wasn't able to find the authorization
(which was put ON the power book, not on the desk top). ???????????
If an external hard disk can not be used without the machine which
installed it, what is the advantage to install max on an externel disk????

Or did I miss something????

Kasper T Toeplitz
Compositeur &Bassiste Electrique


Date:Thu, 18 Nov 1999 00:15:38 +0100
From:joel ryan <
Subject: RAMSA

Does any one know of any spatialization software for controlling
the Ramsa digital mixer. Something like the Zeep patches for theYamaha

02R would do.
Joel Ryan

Joel Ryan
STEIM :: Ballett Frankfurt :: Institute of Sonology
Achtergracht 19, 1017WL Amsterdam
+31 (20) 624-3886
+31 (20) 626-4262fax


Date:Wed, 17 Nov 1999 16:39:49 -0800
From:David Zicarelli <
Subject: Re: MSP with MacOS 9

"Dunskus, Bertram" <Bertram.Dunskus@PARTNER.COMMERZBANK.COM> writes:

>I probably shouldn't ask this question, becaus Max/MSP is not certified for
>use with MacOS 9. Anyway, I am using it on my PBG3/250, and it generally
>works fine.

I don't know who "certifies" anything, but...

>However, with OS 9 I cannot use the built in CD-ROM drive as a source of
>audio when playing CD's. The dac-Setup Window shows "Input Source: Default",
>instead of the internal drive bay, and I cannot change it. Whenever Max is
>in the background, the sound comes through just fine, but when it's in the
>foreground the sound goes mute.


Apple has changed the implementation of CD Audio in OS 9.
No longer is CD Audio a selection in the standard sound input
driver. It is now its own driver. Whether one can actually
get at the CD audio in the same way you can the standard
audio input is something I need to determine. However,
even if I could access the audio as it is playing, there is
now NO WAY to turn playthrough off. This means there is
no way in OS 9 to use a CD as an input to MSP and do anything
interesting with it, because the original will always blast
through (the behavior on my machine is different from what
Bertram describes).

According to some new Apple technical documentation, developers
should now revise their applications not to offer the choice
of turning playthrough on and off. This is supposed to be
an improvement! In the Sound control panel in OS 9, if you try
to turn play through off with CD Audio selected, it comes back
on a second later. Great interface design!

Today I wrote to the Apple "developer partnership manager"
(formerly known as an "evangelist") complaining about this
situation. I've offered to give the engineers at Apple a
demo of MSP and Pluggo's abilities to do realtime processing
of CD audio. I don't know whether they'll ever "get it" or

David Z.


End of MAX Digest - 16 Nov 1999 to 17 Nov 1999 (#1999-329)