3 10-13-99

Subject: MAX Digest - 12 Oct 1999 to 13 Oct 1999 (#1999-297)
Date: Thu, 14 Oct 1999 00:00:39 -0400
From:
Automatic digest processor <LISTSERV@LISTS.MCGILL.CA>
Reply-To: MAX - Interactive Music/Multimedia Standard Environments <MAX@LISTS.MCGILL.CA>
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There are 20 messages totalling 672 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. sxformat (2)
  2. inexpensive midi triggers and sensors (2)
  3. New Spectral MSP Objects
  4. max authorisation; was Re: Opcode still alive?
  5. background/forground
  6. <No subject given>
  7. Fear and Loathing on Middlefield Ave (2)
  8. Touch screens
  9. Wireless MIDI
  10. Opcode demise: Time to group and speak up? (2)
  11. project II unusual behavior
  12. TCPSend and TCPReceive (2)
  13. cheap controllers
  14. freq-to-MIDI -bend
  15. HoHoHo

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:Tue, 12 Oct 1999 21:06:34 +0000
From:Robert Henke <imbalance@BERLIN.SNAFU.DE>
Subject: Re: sxformat

hmm, sounds familiar to me.
i also would prefer the first way (shorter to type in...)

rob.


Jeff Rona said in sxformat at 99/10/11Mon 20:57.

> A strange thing came up working with sxformat. I wanted to send a small
> string of sysex with one changable byte. I tried to pattern it directly
> from
> an example in the manual. So I tried the following:
>
> sxformat 240 00 32 51 01 16 113 64 17 $i1 247
>
> where $i1 is the first inlet. I got an error message each time that it was
> an illegal expression, or something like that.
>
> The only way I got it to work was to do it as an expression like this:
>
> sxformat 240 00 32 51 01 16 113 64 17 / is $i1 / 247
>
>
> putting it between slashes. According to the help file and the docs, this
> should not be necessary. Anyone else find this problem?
>
> -------------------
>
Be, Hear, Now
> jrona@earthlink.net
> -------------------
>


------------------------------

Date:Tue, 12 Oct 1999 15:34:29 -0400
From:David Crandall <dcrand1@GL.UMBC.EDU>
Subject: Re: inexpensive midi triggers and sensors

On Tue, 12 Oct 1999, please. Thank you very much. wrote:

> I-cube but it is way to expensive for my project budget. I have heard Samson
> makes an MIDI trigger for acoustic drums, though it did not show up on their

I purchased a knockoff Alesis D4 with the name "Spitfire DX" on the face
plate. Same unit as the Aleis, but I think they swapped the drum sounds
chip out for a cheaper one. It was around $175 a couple years back. But
the D4 and DM5 do the job too - might be worth perusing some used sites.
They have 8 trigger inputs.

btw, they just trigger - send out a momentary note in response to a spurt
of noise in the input line. If you want a MIDI trigger that stays on for
the duration of the stimulus, you need to hack a cheap keyboard.

dc

------------------------------

Date:Tue, 12 Oct 1999 12:56:05 -0700
From:Christopher Dobrian <dobrian@UCI.EDU>
Subject: sxformat

Jeff Rona <jrona@EARTHLINK.NET> wrote:

>The only way I got [sxformat] to work was to do it as an expression like this:
>sxformat 240 00 32 51 01 16 113 64 17 / is $i1 / 247
>putting it between slashes. According to the help file and the docs, this
>should not be necessary.

Jeff, the use of the slashes and "is" IS the only way to do it. This is
consistently shown in the help file, the object reference page (Max
Reference pp. 359-60), and Tutorial 34 (Getting Started pp. 156 ff.).

I admit that the object page may be a bit misleading, since the explanation
of the "/ is $i1 /" configuration doesn't occur until the "Arguments"
portion of the page. Sorry for any confusion it caused.

--Chris

----------
Christopher Dobrian / Department of Music / University of California, Irvine
Phone: (949) 824-7288 / Fax: (949) 824-4914 / http://www.arts.uci.edu/dobrian

------------------------------

Date:Tue, 12 Oct 1999 21:51:18 +0200
From:"Dr. Karlheinz Essl" <essl@EUNET.AT>
Subject: Re: New Spectral MSP Objects

> I would like to announce the availability of FFTease, a package of freeware
> Max/MSP objects designed for signal processing in the frequency domain.

Bravissimi!

A wonderful work for which I was waiting so long...

Thanks a lot,
--- Karlheinz


Dr. Karlheinz Essl
composition - performance - improvisation
Studio for Advanced Music and Media Technology (Austria)
http://www.essl.at

------------------------------

Date:Tue, 12 Oct 1999 22:33:47 +0100
From:david stevens <david@RESONANT.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: max authorisation; was Re: Opcode still alive?

jmw wrote:
>
> Despite their release of 4.5.1 they sure seem dead.
> I've been waiting for 2.5 weeks for a challenge response for 3.5.9.
> Multiple phone calls & email with no response....

oh dear! this hadn't occured to me, and i was going to go and buy a new
Powerbook next week. does this mean that there's no way to authorise max on one
of these (bronze) machines now? is it possible to get a response code from David
Z, or is that only if you buy the max/msp bundle from Cycling74?

i'd appreciate some feed back on this, as there's not much point in spending
thousands of pounds on something that i won't be able to use!

thanks

david

------------------------------

Date:Tue, 12 Oct 1999 14:42:04 -0700
From:Jeff Rona <jrona@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: background/forground

I thought it was the case that MAX would intercept Mac keypresses even if
it was in the background. I want to have MAX be triggered in the background
by hitting keys on the keypad. I remember this used to be possible.

Also, can a MAX app be made into a floating palette to stay in the
foreground? This is for a different use.

Thanks


jr

p.s. - I truly mourn the loss of Opcode. I hate thinking about learning a
new sequencer but what choice is there? I got a copy of SV 4.5.1, but I'm
worried about trying it, since it will make it impossible to revert files if
there are any serious bugs.
While I hope someone will buy the code and use it in part or in whole, it
may be naive to think this will happen given the lawsuits flinging around.

-------------------
Be, Hear, Now
jrona@earthlink.net
-------------------

------------------------------

Date:Tue, 12 Oct 1999 17:19:12 -0700
From:Peter Elsea <elsea@CATS.UCSC.EDU>
Subject: <No subject given>

>I'm trying to resolve a

>couple core issues. I'm using max integrated into a setup where Cubase
>VST has provided
>a central docking station for all my signals, midi and audio. .. I get the
>bit rate output of the
>"tcin" device, and when divided by 24 I get a clock that synchronizes to
>the seconds on my cubase transport.

tcin reads timecode from whatever source is available- cuebase in this
case. (Sometimes you have to hunt around for the time code with the port
message.) The number tcin provides is a count of the number of frames times
80. Cuebase is apparently supplying this once per frame at 24 frames per
second, so by banging on every 24th frame you are in sync with the seconds.
So far so good...

> I need a way to convert
>this data into various breakdowns of musical signature ie. bars and
>beats, quarter, eighth, and sixteenth notes, ect...

We need to convert musical time into something that can be directly
compared with the time code values: usually that's called a tick, and we
often define 96 ticks per quarter note, 48 for an eighth, 32 for a triplet
eighth, and so on. (You can easily make achart). The time in ticks since
the begining of the piece to measure 4, beat 2, second eighth is
4 Measures X 384 (assuming 4/4) +
1 Quarters X 96 +
1 Eighths X 48
numTicks = 1680
There's no neat formula to calculate these- a subpatcher that does it is a
useful addition to your libray.

To get that into frames we need to know the tempo and frame rate. Since the
tempo is changable, I usualy include an [ expr 60000 / ($f1 * 96) ] that
gives the length of a single tick in milliseconds. Call that tickDur. ($f1
is the tempo in quarters per minute.)
The duration of a frame at 24 fps is 41.66 ms, ( at 25 it's 40ms,at 30
33.333ms.)
So to find the frame time equivalent of a particular note, take numTicks X
tickDur/ 41.66, which is easily handled by another expr. With a tempo of
120, the event above occurs at frame 210. Multiply that by 80 to get the
value to watch for from tcin.

You will actually have to trigger your event with a > 16800, so the
earliest it may occur is frame 211. Triggering from frames is usually
accurate enough for musical gestures, but some of the fussier souls on this
list won't like it. If you are actually reading Midi Time Code, you should
get a value four times a frame. Going to 30 fps helps a bit.
Peter Elsea
Director, Electronic Music Studios
University of California, Santa Cruz
http://arts.ucsc.edu/EMS/Music/index.html
elsea@cats.ucsc.edu

------------------------------

Date:Tue, 12 Oct 1999 21:32:33 -0400
From:Nicholas Longo <71477.2332@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject: Re: Fear and Loathing on Middlefield Ave

<Wow, this is ringing a bell... anybody else remember the rumors from way
<back when (about 12 years back) to the effect that Gibson also caused the
<demise of the Southworth company? The (UNCONFIRMED) story went that
<Gibson was contracted to build the legendary Jambox, produced substandard
<product, and when sued, simply papered Southworth to death. Been a while
<since I had an occasion to remember this, but if true, they are bad actors
<indeed and haven't changed their MO much.

<Once again proving that size does matter, in a very negative way....


OK, I'll spill some beans for you. A friend of mine was one of the
developers
of ZIPI, Lynx Crowe. Lynx was Don Buchla's programmer for sixteen years.
When Gibson bought ZETA systems and Oberheim, they hired him to develop
ZIPI and a compatible OS for the OBMX. Last time I talked to him he was in
the middle of an $8 million suit/counter suit with Gibson over the IP
rights.
He said he'd done some research and that Gibson has been involved in more
than fifty such disputes. Most of their adversaries have simply given up,
faced with the complications and expense of such legalities. I did post
a warning message on this list when Gibson bought Opcode.

They're also in bed with CNMAT. U.C. grad students would be advised
to consult an attorney about any original software you're developing. I'm
sure the Office of Technology Transfer can give you some information, but
bear in mind Universities are very assertive these days about securing IP
rights and licensing royalties for their own funding priorities.

------------------------------

Date:Tue, 12 Oct 1999 22:29:00 -0400
From:Neal Farwell <nfarwell@FAS.HARVARD.EDU>
Subject: Re: inexpensive midi triggers and sensors

Chris -

Lots more sources out there, and links I should add, but try my website,
address below:

=========================================
Neal Farwell

Visiting Fellow in Composition

Music Department
Harvard University
Cambridge MA 02138

(617) 591-9478

nfarwell@fas.harvard.edu

http://www.fas.harvard.edu/~nfarwell
=========================================

------------------------------

Date:Wed, 13 Oct 1999 09:42:43 +0200
From:Peter Castine <pcastine@PRZ.TU-BERLIN.DE>
Subject: Re: Fear and Loathing on Middlefield Ave

On around 12=AD10=AD1999 16:58, David Crandall said something like:

>anybody else remember the rumors from way
>back when (about 12 years back) to the effect that Gibson also caused the
>demise of the Southworth company? The (UNCONFIRMED) story went that
>Gibson was contracted to build the legendary Jambox, produced substandard
>product, and when sued, simply papered Southworth to death.

There are probably numerous rumors (and facts) regarding the fate of Bill
Southworth that I never caught, but one thing I do recollect was that
many early MIDI TimePiece users made remarks on "coincidental"
similarities between it and the last JamBox model. The implication was
that whoever had been supplying Southworth simply signed a contract with
MotU when Southworth Software went belly-up.


I was sorry for Bill because I liked him personally (and his wife was a
completely charming person). I know a lot of people were pissed off at
him for marketing decisions he had made (and if those decisions had cost
me a lot of money, I might feel less charitable).

The other thing that I can't forget is that Southworth was (TTBOMK) the
first vendor of MIDI software on Mac to drop CP. For my money, that alone
is a reason to be sorry the company closed shop. Oh, and the MIDI
painting thing he did was definitely cute.


If I get any more maudlin I'll probably get lynched...


Peter


----------------- http://www.prz.tu-berlin.de/~pcastine/-----------------
Dr. Peter Castine| I am very pleased to announce that the
4-15 Music & Technology| 26th International Computer Music Conference
| will take place in Berlin in the year 2000.
| We look forward to seeing you here!

------------------------------

Date:Wed, 13 Oct 1999 12:13:31 +0200
From:Sukandar Kartadinata <sk@ZKM.DE>
Subject: Re: Touch screens

>Hi all,
>Does anyone have any experience of using touch screens with mac's? Is
>it possible to use Max with this control? Who makes/supplies them? Do
>they cost mega-pounds etc?

I'm using a www.trolltouch.comoverlay kit with a reworked PB170. Works
great, pricing starts at $500.


some other links which might be useful:

http://www.touchwindow.com/index.html
http://www.edmark.com/prod/tw/
http://www.repairfaq.org/filipg/LINK/F_touchscreen.html
http://www.dgp.utoronto.ca/people/BillBuxton/InputSources.html#anchor690921
http://www.carrolltouch.com/CTtext/flatir.htm
http://www.carrolltouch.com/pdffiles/handbook.pdf
http://www.touchscreens.net/products.shtml
http://www.magictouch.com/buildin.htm
http://www.kioskman.com/tapproducts.htm
http://www.microtouch.com/mthtml/03e_kits.htm

good luck,
Sukandar


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Sukandar Kartadinata
Custom Music Technology
Hagenauerstr. 6, 10435 Berlin, 030-44051219
http://members.xoom.com/Sukandar/
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

------------------------------


Date:Wed, 13 Oct 1999 12:13:34 +0200
From:Sukandar Kartadinata <sk@ZKM.DE>
Subject: Re: Wireless MIDI

>anyone have an opinion on current wireless MIDI gear?

I was on the same quest but all search engine results pointed to
out-of-date gear. The only option left was some MIDI-to-audio converter, so
you could use a standard wireless audio rig.
I ended up hacking my own (half-duplex, packaged-data) solution around a
www.abacom-tech.commodule.

Curious to know if I missed something.

cheers,
Sukandar


>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Sukandar Kartadinata
Custom Music Technology
Hagenauerstr. 6, 10435 Berlin, 030-44051219
http://members.xoom.com/Sukandar/
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

------------------------------

Date:Wed, 13 Oct 1999 08:56:21 -0500
From:Pablo Silva <hpsilva@SERVIDOR.UNAM.MX>
Subject: Opcode demise: Time to group and speak up?

Hello everybody:

As the worse rumors about Opcode unfortunately (a big ??? as far as Max
users go) become confirmed, I was wondering whether it's not the time
for all Max users to group and manifest a strong preference as to what
we'd like to happen with the legal rights to Max, etc. Not that I think
Gibson might give a damn about us, but maybe a bit of pressure in the
right place at the right moment might help... though I think our
pressure would be better applied towards IRCAM, which is smaller, and
probably a lot more responsive.

As I see it, there is one thing most of the comments in the list seem to
agree on, and that is that David Z., if this were possible, would be the
best person available for the keeping of MAX as a professional tool. And
I personally agree, wholeheartedly. But when I think of all the versions
of MAX coming out with jMax, and all the limitations inherent to the
current environment commented on on the CNMAT site, I think that perhaps
this would be the time to push for a greater integration of the versions
available, if Max is to survive long-term and continue to be as exciting
as it has been since the introduction of MSP. And certainly IRCAM will
have to have a say in this.

So, what's the feeling of the list? I'd be glad to help out in whatever
way I can.

See you soon

Pablo Silva

------------------------------

Date:Wed, 13 Oct 1999 10:18:56 PDT
From:Chris Tignor <ctignor@HOTMAIL.COM>


Subject: project II unusual behavior

Regarding a problem w/ Msp and the project II card,

I often get unusual behavior w/ input/output routing from the card.
Certain patches, including brand new patches route input signals from input
to the corresponding output (e.g. in 1 to out 1) even when there is no
through connection programmed w/in the patch. The problem goes away when
Msp is quit. The workaround has been to open those pre-saved patches in
which this phenomenon does not happen immediately after msp loads, start the
audio (somehow "initializing" the interface), quitting the patch and opening
the desired patch. This usually works. Anyone have similar
issues/solutions. Thanks

C>T>

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date:Wed, 13 Oct 1999 09:55:27 -0400
From:b1axae94 <drokeby@SYMPATICO.CA>
Subject: TCPSend and TCPReceive

Hi Fellow Maxers...

I am just completing two TCP/IP objects for max: TCPSend and TCPReceive.
These will be posted for FTP at IRCAM as soon as they are completed.

I wanted a little feedback on what people might like as features on these.

Currently I am intending to have them behave like send and receive
objects. For a TCPSend object, you supply the IP address of the remote
machine and the port you want to connect to. For a TCPReceive object, you
supply the port it is receiving on (obviously, the TCPReceive's IP
address will be the IP address set for the machine). Then, anything input
into the TCPSend will come out the remote TCPReceive. This will work for
local ethernet connections between machines as well as for connections
via the internet.

There are a few final design issues to be resolved:

1/ should the TCPReceive object have one outlet or one each for bangs,
ints, floats and lists.
The question is related to the fact that outlets that acn outlet anything
(bangs, ints, float and lists) does an automatic lookup before outputting
which slows down performance. Implementing separate outlets allows banhs,
floats and ints to outlet without the extra overhead.
Any opinions?

2/ currently I have not been able to get the TCPReceive object to
automatically output max messages received from the remote TCPSend. The
output it currently triggered by polling bangs (as in the serial object)
or by turning on an internal clock that checks for input regularly.
Ideally, it would be nice to avoid this kind of thing so that information
just flowed out exactly as if it was a local receive object.
If anyone has any thoughts on how to cause a max object to output when
called from within a non-max interrupt, I would appreciate the input.

David Rokeby

------------------------------

Date:Wed, 13 Oct 1999 13:44:14 -0400
From:David Crandall <dcrand1@GL.UMBC.EDU>
Subject: Re: Opcode demise: Time to group and speak up?


Just curious, since I don't know for sure... but wouldn't there be legal
grounds for IRCAM to just say, OK it was ours to license to Opcode, now
give it back?

Downside might be having to learn French for the manuals...

dc

------------------------------

Date:Wed, 13 Oct 1999 16:19:54 +0100
From:Roger Carruthers <roger.carruthers@VIRGIN.NET>
Subject: cheap controllers

>
>Hello.
>I am looking for inexpensive midi triggers. I know of infusion systems
>I-cube but it is way to expensive for my project budget. I have heard Sam=
son
>makes an MIDI trigger for acoustic drums, though it did not show up on the=
ir
>web site. I am also interested in MIDI triggering light sensors. Any
>information about this is greatly appreciated. THANK YOU!!
>Chris Willits
>wiltz0023@aol.com
>

If you're into DIY, I can reccomend Dylan Menzies' Manmidi chip (CV/Midi
convertor) to make your own MIDI faders etc. It's very cheap (=A320 UK) and
comes with asimple circuit diagram for converting either 4 or 10 voltages=
.
Dylan will even sell you the code so you can burn your own chips if you
want. You could rig up a few opto devices to make Midi light sensors with
the manmidi chip.
If you want to make switches rather than continuous controllers, just use
Max's TogEdge object to detect changes from 0 Volts. I did this with a
Counter to turn TTL pulses from an Atari trackball into continuous
controller data.
For more on Manmidi go towww-users.york.ac.uk/~rdmg101/manmidi.html.
I also used a Midi key scanning kit, based around a chip called an E510
(sorry, dunno who makes it) to make a custom 'keyboard' using a joystick
etc. You need to make some extra address decoding circuitry and add switche=
s
but all the circuit diags come with the kit.The kit was available from
Maplin (www.maplin.co.uk/), but they
may have discontinued it by now.
Paia do a CV/midi convertor kit which looks pretty neat and is relatively
cheap (~$90 US) and also a drum pad/Midi convertor=AD see
www.paia.com/midibrn.htm

Roger Carruthers ('The Lone Roger')
>------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:Wed, 13 Oct 1999 21:35:47 +0100
From:Sven Erga <sven.erga@NOTAM.UIO.NO>
Subject: freq-to-MIDI -bend

Hi!
I am building a patch that can select frequencies, and play back samples in
the exact same pitch.
The ftom object is good for the semi-tones, but I would also like to derive
pitchbend values, to get things just right. I am going to have different
samples assigned to each semi-tone in correct pitch,
so what the patch should do is to decide which sample should play back with


a certain amount of pitchbend to it. My sampler is capable of setting the
low/hi pitchbend in the range of +/- 24 semitones. Any ideas anyone?
Best,
Sven

------------------------------

Date:Wed, 13 Oct 1999 16:22:14 -0500
From:Don Malone <dmalone@ROOSEVELT.EDU>
Subject: HoHoHo

"HoHoHo" my algorithmic christmas CD (made with MAX patches) is available
fortrade. send me snail-add by email if you are interested.

--
happy tunes
don malone

www.faculty.roosevelt.edu/malone

it takes us all

------------------------------

Date:Wed, 13 Oct 1999 22:32:11 -0400
From:Stephen Kay <sk@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject: TCPSend and TCPReceive

>1/ should the TCPReceive object have one outlet or one each for bangs,
>ints, floats and lists.
>The question is related to the fact that outlets that acn outlet anythin=
g
>bangs, ints, float and lists) does an automatic lookup before outputting=

>which slows down performance. Implementing separate outlets allows banhs=
,
>floats and ints to outlet without the extra overhead.
>Any opinions?

I can't see how any particular need would be served by having only
one outlet. True, that's the way receive objects work. So what?
If you want only one type, use the outlet that fits. If you want
all types, hook up all the outlets to your next object.


Stephen Kay

------------------------------

End of MAX Digest - 12 Oct 1999 to 13 Oct 1999 (#1999-297)
**********************************************************