Subject: MAX Digest - 9 Sep 1999 to 10 Sep 1999 (#1999-269)
Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 00:00:01 -0400
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There are 12 messages totalling 439 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Powerbook PCMCIA audio cards (2)
  2. avg~ at > 10hz? (2)
  3. folder and Mac file type
  4. Overflow
  5. USB Keyboard Lockout
  6. pgmout troubles
  7. hardware issues
  8. pgm out, A3000
  9. MSP, mouse control, etc
  10. video and tv mirror

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:Thu, 9 Sep 1999 23:31:20 -0500
From:Darwin Grosse <ddg@EXECPC.COM>
Subject: Re: Powerbook PCMCIA audio cards

>Does anyone have any experience with the VXPocket PCMCIA audio card? Does it
>work with MSP?
>Are there other options besides this product for higher quality digital audio i/o
>on a powerbook?
>
>Thanks in advance.

I have a VXPocket. It does work with MSP -- as a Sound Manager device.
Latency is OK (a big improvement over the PCXPocket), and the sound quality
is excellent (especially in comparison to the built-in sound). I recently
did an article for Recording Magazine discussing the Laptop Studio, and
called other PCMCIA card companies. No one else is supporting the Mac at
this time.

There isn't much else until the Mac gets USB audio working.

[ddg]
Darwin Grosse

------------------------------

Date:Thu, 9 Sep 1999 23:29:09 -0700
From:Christopher Dobrian <dobrian@UCI.EDU>
Subject: Re: avg~ at > 10hz?

Scott Draves <scott_draves@YAHOO.COM> wrote:

>i noticed that the meter~ and avg~ objects don't
>appear able to handle measurement intervals smaller
>than 0.1s (10hz).
>[...]
>the output of this avg~ at 40hz looks like:
>...
>print: 0.000000
>print: 0.018623
>print: 0.000000
>print: 0.000000
>print: 0.000000


>print: 0.027628
>print: 0.000000
>print: 0.000000
>print: 0.000000
>print: 0.013753
>print: 0.000000
>print: 0.000000
>print: 0.021920
>print: 0.000000
>...

I don't get the same results with the patch you included. In your patch I
hooked the meter~ object to another print object, and its output was just
as it should be. The meter~ object accepts an interval setting as low as
15ms, and has always worked fine for me at that rate. With the avg~ object
in your patch, I did get a few 0 values, but not nearly as many as you
show. My guess is that whenever avg~ sends out a value, it also zeros its
internal variable that stores the sum of received signal values, Thus if
you bang it a second time before it sums up the next vector(s), you would
get a value of 0.

I encountered this "bug" once in an MSP external I wrote. I wanted to be
able to get peak amplitude reports as often as every vector (for a
compressor patch I was writing), so I just wrote my own "peakamp~" external
object that works like snapshot~ but reports peak amplitude since the last
report (rather than a snapshot of a single value in the vector). It zeros
its internal value after each report, but if it needs to report again
before the next vector is calculated, it just sends out the previously
reported value, instead of 0.

In any case, if you want to use avg~ and are having the annoying problem of
excessive 0 reports, why not just run its output through a sel 0.0 object,
and take the leftovers coming out the right outlet?

--Chris

----------
Christopher Dobrian / Department of Music / University of California, Irvine
Phone: (949) 824-7288 / Fax: (949) 824-4914 / http://www.arts.uci.edu/dobrian

------------------------------

Date:Fri, 10 Sep 1999 10:57:22 +0200
From:heiniger <heiniger@UBACLU.UNIBAS.CH>
Subject: avg~ at > 10hz?

>Subject: avg~ at > 10hz?
>i would like to measure something
>like RMS power in the signal at higher frequency (eg
>100hz).

What you are looking for is rather a standard design Envelope-Follower
(most simpl design for RMS: sqare signal then lowpassfilter at eg. 15 Hz
then take sqrt, or just scale)
quality of LP = quality of EF

or develop own design : computing avg is exactly what nth-order
FIR-lowpassfilters do

wolf

------------------------------

Date:Fri, 10 Sep 1999 09:20:41 EDT
From:ACDCVC@AOL.COM
Subject: folder and Mac file type


OK, I give. I am using the folder object, menu and Quicktime movie clips.
Does anyone know what the 4-character symbol is for a movie saved in cinepak
using Videoshop, Premiere or MoviePlayer that would follow a types message?
I simply want folder to recognize my movie clips and list them in a menu.

Thanks.
Jeff Krieger

------------------------------

Date:Fri, 10 Sep 1999 10:15:32 -0400
From:Dan Trueman <dan@SILVERTONE.PRINCETON.EDU>
Subject: Re: Powerbook PCMCIA audio cards

Related questions, for Darwin:

1) have you measured the latency (with the nifty latency patch)? this
would be interesting to me.

2) Apparently they have an ASIO driver; have you tried it?

3) how much CPU does it hog? (same as Sound Manager?)

thanks,
dan trueman
http://www.music.princeton.edu/~dan

On Thu, 9 Sep 1999, Darwin Grosse wrote:

> >Does anyone have any experience with the VXPocket PCMCIA audio card? Does it
> >work with MSP?
> >Are there other options besides this product for higher quality digital audio
i/o
> >on a powerbook?
> >
> >Thanks in advance.
>
> I have a VXPocket. It does work with MSP -- as a Sound Manager device.
> Latency is OK (a big improvement over the PCXPocket), and the sound quality
> is excellent (especially in comparison to the built-in sound). I recently
> did an article for Recording Magazine discussing the Laptop Studio, and
> called other PCMCIA card companies. No one else is supporting the Mac at
> this time.
>
> There isn't much else until the Mac gets USB audio working.
>
> [ddg]
> Darwin Grosse
>

------------------------------

Date:Fri, 10 Sep 1999 08:48:31 -0700
From:Jeff Rona <jrona@EARTHLINK.NET>
Subject: Overflow

I wrote a little MAX patch to display certain controller data. The patcher
simply has a ctlin, bendin, and touchin going to some sliders and number
boxes for readout. Nothing more. I saved as a collective, used the
application instaler to create a little app and put it on the target
machine, running Cubase via OMS.
Every time you hit stop on Cubase it sends a ton of controller data to
reset everything in the room. With my MAX app running you get an OMS MIDI
overflow mesage every time you hit stop. And it continued after the MAX app
was quit! So now I'm pretty curious about this. Make sense to anybody?

-------------------


Be, Hear, Now
jrona@earthlink.net
-------------------

------------------------------

Date:Fri, 10 Sep 1999 08:49:24 -0800
From:Keith McMillen <mcmillen@SIRIUS.COM>
Subject: USB Keyboard Lockout

Hi All,

I totally gave up on the USB keyboard on my Blue and white G3. I would get
louckout regularly with DSP resources never getting above 60%. Thank Jobs
it still has an ADB port. I switched over and have not had a problem since.

Keith McMillen

>>Has anyone had problems with losing control of the mouse and/or keyboard
>>while
>>using MAX/MSP? I have a G3 400MHz and find this happens on a regular (but not
>>predictable) basis. Are there any strategies for avoiding or ameliorating
>>this
>>problem?

------------------------------

Date:Fri, 10 Sep 1999 08:53:00 -0800
From:Keith McMillen <mcmillen@SIRIUS.COM>
Subject: pgmout troubles

Hi Andy,

I have had similar problems (3 times) and have determined (all 3 times) it
was something peculiar with the device receiving the pgmout. In all three
cases if I sent a program change to a nonexistent device on a different
MIDI channel immediately before hitting the desired device, it workd. Don't
ask me why.

Keith

hello again list people.

i put in a post a couple of days ago about strange behaviour from 'pgmout'
- no response so far... i've been doing all sorts of trials with it, all to
no avail. the most confusing aspect of this is that maybe 2 times out of 10
it all works fine, but the rest of the time 'pgmout' is either doing
nothing or selecting programme numbers at random, even programmes outside
of its instructions. i.e. i want it to select 1,2,3 or 4 but it selects 43,
77, 101, whatever.

i've enclosed a stripped down version of the patch i'm running. if any kind
soul out there has the inclination to run it, i would be interested to see
if they get the samekind of behaviour.

i'm using a PB 1400c, yamaha A3000 sampler + translator pro interface if
thats of any interest.

another aside, i've also tried out a few older patches with loadbangs
triggering 'pgmout' that used to work fine. these are also now
malfunctioning. what could be going wrong in my system to make this
happen???

------------------------------

Date:Fri, 10 Sep 1999 14:36:53 +0200
From:jose manuel berenguer <jmcoclea@INTERCOM.ES>


Subject: hardware issues

Yes, Eric. I had this problem while using MAX 3.5.8 and receiving MIDI
protocols thru the USB ports. I purchased a little card to convert the
modem port to a standard serial geoport (Griffin gPort Universal Serial
Adapter) and connecting old MIDI devices to it. I'm avoiding this problem
and having new other ones :))))

When detecting losing control of mouse or klavier, you can try unplugand
plug again the device. I did this, and sometimes it worked....


Best

Jos=E9 Manuel

>
>Date:
Tue, 7 Sep 1999 11:19:32 EDT
>From:
Eric Lyon <Eric.Lyon@DARTMOUTH.EDU>
>Subject: hardware issues
>
>Greetings,
>
>
>Has anyone had problems with losing control of the mouse and/or keyboard wh=
ile
>using MAX/MSP? I have a G3 400MHz and find this happens on a regular (but n=
ot
>predictable) basis. Are there any strategies for avoiding or ameliorating t=
his
>problem?
>
>
>Thanks,
>
>Eric Lyon

___________________________________________________________________________
Jose Manuel Berenguer

Coclea.
tel/fax 34-93-2857150. tel/fax 34-972-795002
jmcoclea@intercom.es http://usuarios.intercom.es/coclea

Orquestra del Caos. tel 34-93-3064137. fax 34-93-3064113
caos@cccb.org http://www.cccb.es/caos

nosotros tambien 3000ya.com http://www.3000ya.com
___________________________________________________________________________

------------------------------

Date:Fri, 10 Sep 1999 14:20:55 -0400
From:Ken Gregory <kgregory@PANGEA.CA>
Subject: Re: pgm out, A3000

Hi Andy,
I've noticed that when my A3000 is receiving a lot of note and controller
data that it takes a second or so for it to respond to a pgmout message.

Your stripped down patch works fine.

Use the print object patched to various outputs in you patch to find the
strange data.

Break down your functions into little patches that only do one thing. This
will help in the debuging process. The debug section in the Max manual has


a lot of good info.

Good luck!
ken

>From:andy g <host@PODCENTRE.DEMON.CO.UK>
>Subject: pigmout
>
>hello again list people.
>
>i put in a post a couple of days ago about strange behaviour from 'pgmout'
>- no response so far... i've been doing all sorts of trials with it, all to
>no avail. the most confusing aspect of this is that maybe 2 times out of 10
>it all works fine, but the rest of the time 'pgmout' is either doing
>nothing or selecting programme numbers at random, even programmes outside
>of its instructions. i.e. i want it to select 1,2,3 or 4 but it selects 43,
>77, 101, whatever.
>
>i've enclosed a stripped down version of the patch i'm running. if any kind
>soul out there has the inclination to run it, i would be interested to see
>if they get the same
kind of behaviour.
>
>i'm using a PB 1400c, yamaha A3000 sampler + translator pro interface if
>thats of any interest.
>
>another aside, i've also tried out a few older patches with loadbangs
>triggering 'pgmout' that used to work fine. these are also now
>malfunctioning. what could be going wrong in my system to make this

Ken Gregorykgregory@pangea.ca
300B- 52 Albert Street
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada R3B 1E8
ph. 204-942-7510fax 204-942-1555

------------------------------

Date:Fri, 10 Sep 1999 14:38:54 -0700
From:William Tsun-Yuk Hsu <hsu@TLALOC.SFSU.EDU>
Subject: MSP, mouse control, etc

Eric Lyon:

>Has anyone had problems with losing control of the mouse and/or keyboard while
>using MAX/MSP?

I've had this problem when doing a relatively long sfrecord~.
Eventually I do get control back. Probably related to the
problem that someone said David Z mentioned in the MSP Nightschool.
(I have a b/w g3 laptop as well.)

Also, I had a Max/MSP patch recording using sfrecord~, and I've
noticed that mouse clicks sometimes cause soft but audible clicks
in the recorded soundfile. I'm fairly sure the mouse clicks are
not triggering sound events that are clicking, so it's rather
annoying. Suggestions?

Bill

------------------------------

Date:Fri, 10 Sep 1999 17:09:00 -0500
From:Paul Hertz <paul-hertz@NWU.EDU>
Subject: Re: video and tv mirror

On Wed, 8 Sep 1999 17:41:42 -0400 Neal Farwell <nfarwell@FAS.HARVARD.EDU>
wrote:


>I've used the composite video out on my 8600 (I think it's the same Apple
>built-in h/w as the 8500?) both in PAL and NTSC. To answer some of your
>comments:
>
>- the picture quality is quite good; most notable failing is that it's
>over-bright (I think incoming video signals on a TV or monitor usually go
>through an automatic gain control, which uses the height of the sync pulses
>to gauge the overall amplitude; my guess is the Mac circuit gets the sync
>height and the black-white range in a slightly wrong ratio)
/../
- fine horizontal lines always look jittery on interlaced TV; fine vertical
>lines upset the color circuitry unless you use S-video; if you want to
>display Max patches that's a problem - checking the "eliminate flicker" box
>in Monitors & Sound helps...

I use an 8600 and have found the video output acceptable--but I use a card
when I really need high quality.

The overbrightness may be a result of monitor gamma and white point
settings. These should be 2.2 and 6500 for NTSC video.

Going out to NTSC always has some restrictions, especially on patterns,
lines, and color gamut. Horizontal lines should be 2 pixels high to assure
non-jittery visibility, similarly one-pixel high elements in patterns can
cause problems. Apple's filtering of the signal to reducs artifacts helps a
lot but is far from perfect. Saturated colors in general and reds in
particular will cause problems. Recording MAX patches to video will run
into some of these problems--a card witha zoom feature may be beneficial.

-- Paul

paul-hertz@nwu.edu (Paul Hertz)|(*,+,#,=)(#,=,*,+)(=,#,+,*)(+,*,=,#)|
<http://www.nwu.edu/people/paul-hertz>

------------------------------

End of MAX Digest - 9 Sep 1999 to 10 Sep 1999 (#1999-269)
*********************************************************