Subject: MAX Digest - 11 Aug 1999 to 12 Aug 1999 (#1999-240)
Date: Fri, 13 Aug 1999 00:00:00 -0400
From:
Automatic digest processor <LISTSERV@LISTS.MCGILL.CA>
Reply-To: MAX - Interactive Music/Multimedia Standard Environments <MAX@LISTS.MCGILL.CA>
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There are 13 messages totalling 460 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Eliminating Mac boot-up sound? (3)
  2. pow~ base value (2)
  3. <No subject given>
  4. [OT]: Anyone here have an Akai S3200?
  5. mac boot-up sound (5)
  6. fft~ sync output

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:Wed, 11 Aug 1999 21:54:52 -0700
From:jhno <ear@SIRIUS.COM>
Subject: Re: Eliminating Mac boot-up sound?

>My problem is that I have to assume the Mac will restart some time (like after
>a power failure), and it would be pretty bad to hear that luscious boot-up
>chord come blasting through the speakers.

no kidding. i looked into this as far as possible some time ago, and found
that this sound is hardwired into the firmware with no known way to defeat
it. it will always play, to tell you that certain low-level memory tests
etc. have gone well and everything is cherry.

it is especially annoying because the sound is super-normalized and
compressed, basically always louder than anything else i am running, and
always pegs the meters of whatever it's plugged into...

>two apple scripts.
>
>Place one in the shutdown folder which terns the volume down to "0".
>Place on in the startup folder that terns the volume up to full "7".

these methods help - but in the case of a power failure or a crash, the
shutdown script (or control panel, or applet, or whatever) never gets a
chance to turn the volume down. then when you restart, there is no chance
for any code to run before the startup sound occurs.

then again... last time i forgot to dip the volume on the mixer and this
sound thundered through the p.a. - the audience went wild.

-jhno

() ))(((( ))) ))))) ( )((()) (( ))()) (((( )(()( (()
delicate earear@sirius.com
san francisco, cahttp://www.sirius.com/~ear

------------------------------

Date:Thu, 12 Aug 1999 10:38:28 +0200
From:Peter Castine <pcastine@PRZ.TU-BERLIN.DE>
Subject: Re: Eliminating Mac boot-up sound?

On around 11-8-99 23:15, Matt Wright said something like:

>My problem is that I have to assume the Mac will restart some time (like
>after


>a power failure), and it would be pretty bad to hear that luscious boot-up
>chord come blasting through the speakers.
>
>Anybody know how to make a Mac not make this sound when it boots?

TTBOMK you would have to re-write the ROM.

Some Macs will not autoboot after a power outage; they wait for some
manual signal (usually the power key on the keyboard). If this is your
situation, you could presumably manually turn down your (presumably
extenal) loudspeakers at boot time, then turn the speakers back up when
Max launches. But you probably want a Mac that _will_ autoboot, so this
idea may not be that much help.

Have you tried digging through Apple's TIL site for further information?
If no one here has a great answer, you might find something useful there.


In any case, you may well want to reboot at regular intervals (like, when
no one's around your installation) just to expunge the cumulative memory
fragmentation and leakage that the Mac OS and software apps are likely to
accumulate.


Good luck,

Peter

----------------- http://www.prz.tu-berlin.de/~pcastine/-----------------
Dr. Peter Castine| I am very pleased to announce that the
4-15 Music & Technology| 26th International Computer Music Conference
| will take place in Berlin in the year 2000.
| We look forward to seeing you here!

------------------------------

Date:Thu, 12 Aug 1999 10:33:06 +0200
From:Michael Wieser <m.k.w@MAGNET.AT>
Subject: Re: Eliminating Mac boot-up sound?

Hi!

If you are using MAX- use a VCA and a Midi>Voltage-device and "open" the
VCA when Max is running.
Insert this VCA in front (?) of your PA, so you can`t hear something when
the MAC is comming up. (You can have a "monitor" in front of the VCA for
listening to the signal, somethinh like PFL)

Also do the coupling of the Midi>Voltage tothe VCA with something
AC-coupled -voltage, so if MAX/MAC crashes, the VCA is shut down by
hardware, because then theAC voltage can go s down to 0 and closes the
VCA without software, so a running out of control-MAX/MAC won`t service the
device anymore which results in silence.

Of course this needs a MAX-overhead, but this shouldn`t be that problem.
It`s something called
watchdog in the "embedded controlers-speaking".

This can glued together with well aviable parts.

It`s hardwareindependent from the MAC, so if there is a very high
aviability required you can connect several MACs together to make a cluster
make some VCAs wich are opend and closed by the "still running" MACs...


If you need a diagramm, mail me direct for a PDF...


hth

>
>I'm using Max for an installation that will run for many years, and budget
and
>other constraints force me to use Sound Manager and the Mac's built-in audio
>output.
>
>My problem is that I have to assume the Mac will restart some time (like
after
>a power failure), and it would be pretty bad to hear that luscious boot-up
>chord come blasting through the speakers.
>
>Anybody know how to make a Mac not make this sound when it boots?
>
>Thanks!
>
>-Matt
>
>
>
>
Michael Wieser
m.k.w@magnet.at

Service and Audiodesign

------------------------------

Date:Thu, 12 Aug 1999 14:20:51 +0100
From:Benjamin Thigpen <Benjamin.Thigpen@IRCAM.FR>
Subject: pow~ base value

Hi again,

Maybe I'm missing some first principles in signal processing, but today I
cannot set the base value of pow~ with a signal. If I use a float
everything's fine, but once I connect a signal to its right inlet, pow~
outputs only NAN(000). Unless the value of the signal in the right inlet
is either a whole number or larger than the base value.....

Any help on this greatly appreciated. Here's a patch which shows what
seems to me like strange behavior.

Ben

max v2;
#N vpatcher 50 40 309 277;
#P user ezdac~ 92 185 136 218 30315016;
#P user number~ 130 97 202 112 9 3 3 2 0. 0. 0 0. 250 0.;
#P newex 130 70 76 196617 pow~ 2.;
#P user number~ 130 26 181 41 9 3 3 1 -1. 1. 0 0.53 250 0.;
#P flonum 196 26 40 9 0 0 0 3;
#P flonum 73 26 40 9 0 0 0 3;
#P user number~ 7 26 58 41 9 3 3 1 -1. 1. 0 -0.53 250 0.;
#P newex 7 70 76 196617 pow~ 2.;
#P user number~ 7 97 79 112 9 3 3 2 0. 0. 0 0. 250 0.;
#P newex 196 47 39 196617 sig~ 2.;
#P comment 20 133 179 196617 pow~ does not accept base as a signal.;
#P comment 6 149 205 196617 Unless value of signal in left input is either
an integer or larger than the base value.;
#P connect 7 0 2 0;
#P connect 6 0 4 1;
#P connect 2 0 9 1;
#P connect 9 0 10 0;
#P connect 4 0 3 0;
#P connect 5 0 4 0;


#P connect 8 0 9 0;
#P pop;

------------------------------

Date:Thu, 12 Aug 1999 16:39:21 +0100
From:Sun Electric <sunelectric@BBTT.COM>
Subject: <No subject given>

Hi MAXers,

I'm using several audio/midi - programs in the mac simultaneously (macAV
only), MAX/MSP being one of them.
Since I find IAC busses for midi very helpful, I was wondering if there is
something similar for audio.
something like the pluggo bus for the whole mac, not just within logic or
cubase tracks.
for example, I would like to tap the audio-out from any app and feed it
live to MSP.

ideas?

cheers
tom

Sun Electric GEC
http://www.bbtt.com/sunelectric

------------------------------

Date:Thu, 12 Aug 1999 08:55:57 -0600
From:Kevin Walker <kevin@SUWA.ORG>
Subject: Re: pow~ base value

>Hi again,
>
>Maybe I'm missing some first principles in signal processing, but today I
>cannot set the base value of pow~ with a signal. If I use a float
>everything's fine, but once I connect a signal to its right inlet, pow~
>outputs only NAN(000). Unless the value of the signal in the right inlet
>is either a whole number or larger than the base value.....
>
>Any help on this greatly appreciated. Here's a patch which shows what
>seems to me like strange behavior.
>
>Ben

Your patch works fine, so long as either (a) the base is positive, or
(b) the exponent is an integer. In other words, you can raise
something to a fractional power only if it is positive. This is as
it should be, and also reflects the behavior of the pow function in
C. (-1)**(0.5) should yield NAN (Not A Number). (Not a _real_
number, anyway.)

------------------------------

Date:Thu, 12 Aug 1999 10:41:32 -0500
From:Pablo Silva <hpsilva@SERVIDOR.UNAM.MX>
Subject: [OT]: Anyone here have an Akai S3200?

Hello!

Please exccuse the off-topic message, but I really need some help here.

I'm in the middle of a small emergency... Due
to problems with my usual sampler, I was forced to borrow an older 3200
(not the 3200XL) to continue some urgent work. Yet I'm having big


trouble getting it to communicate with my Mac. The sampler won't even
accept a basic MIDI SDS... let alone SCSI dumps.

I'm POSITIVE the SCSI chain is properly done, so pleasetell meany
other suggestions you might have to fix this or where could I get a
newer system version for this sampler. ReCycle tells me I need at least
version 1.5. (I have 1.0... on ROM)

I've tried getting a new system from AKAI, but, no go as they only put
systems for newer samplers on their page.

Is it possible to have some kind soul here send me this if they have it.
It wouldn't be pirating, as it is freeware, right?

Thanks a lot!

Pablo Silva (from now rainy Mexico City)

------------------------------

Date:Thu, 12 Aug 1999 18:47:46 +0200
From:karrer manfred <a9006180@UNET.UNIVIE.AC.AT>
Subject: Re: mac boot-up sound

i also tried to eleminate this sound. i have opened the system-file with
ResEdit and searched for it but didn´t find it. has anybody an idea how
to find it?
kao-li

------------------------------

Date:Thu, 12 Aug 1999 13:17:10 -0400
From:Christopher Murtagh <chris@MUSIC.MCGILL.CA>
Subject: Re: mac boot-up sound

At 6:47 PM +0200 8/12/99, karrer manfred wrote:
>i also tried to eleminate this sound. i have opened the system-file with
>ResEdit and searched for it but didn=B4t find it. has anybody an idea how
>to find it?
>kao-li

Unfortunately this sound is not in the system, but in the ROM. The=20
only way I can think of that will guarantee that it doesn't chime is=20
to either change/modify the system ROM or put a relay circuit on the=20
audio output. Unless you are good at making your own ROM chips, the=20
latter is probably easiest. :) Simply have a relay that is triggered=20
by power from the ADB bus, when the machine powers up, the relay=20
waits a second or two and then re-connects the audio output. Should=20
be fairly easy to build.

Cheers,

Chris

------------------------------

Date:Thu, 12 Aug 1999 23:22:39 +0200
From:Peter Castine <pcastine@PRZ.TU-BERLIN.DE>
Subject: Re: mac boot-up sound

On around 12-8-99 18:47, karrer manfred said something like:

>i also tried to eleminate this sound. i have opened the system-file with
>ResEdit and searched for it but didn=B4t find it. has anybody an idea how
>to find it?

In ROM.


One of the diagnostic sounds plays very early in the bootstrap process,
long before your Mac has even opened a System file. Most of the time it's
the triad "chime", but on a bad day you can get an arpeggiated triad
(IMS, either dim. or dom7) indicating bad memory chips, bad disk cables,
or other very bad kharma.

Putting these diagnostics into your System File wouldn't do much good,
would they? How would the Mac play the warning for "can't speak to the
SCSI link" if the relevant sound were anywhere other than in ROM?

I'm at a bit of a loss at the term "unfortunate" being bandied about in
this context. It's not that I don't understand the wanting to restart
silently--I understand that situation completely. But there _is_ also the
issue of identifying low-level hardware problems...


Cheers,

Peter--wondering as I wander...

----------------- http://www.prz.tu-berlin.de/~pcastine/-----------------
Dr. Peter Castine| I am very pleased to announce that the
4-15 Music & Technology| 26th International Computer Music Conference
| will take place in Berlin in the year 2000.
| We look forward to seeing you here!

------------------------------

Date:Thu, 12 Aug 1999 14:23:21 -0700
From:Alex Stahl <alex@PIXAR.COM>
Subject: Re: mac boot-up sound

>Unfortunately this sound is not in the system, but in the ROM. The
>only way I can think of that will guarantee that it doesn't chime is
>to either change/modify the system ROM or put a relay circuit on the
>audio output. Unless you are good at making your own ROM chips, the
>latter is probably easiest. :) Simply have a relay that is triggered
>by power from the ADB bus, when the machine powers up, the relay
>waits a second or two and then re-connects the audio output. Should
>be fairly easy to build.

yes it is in ROM, at least for now. Must be considered part of the brand.

An ADB powered relay is an interesting idea, but I'd be concerned about
warm reboots that leave the power on. Another approach might employ a
watchdog timer: some MIDI or serial controllable muting relay is told to
stay on every so often by the patch, otherwise it times out and shuts off.
The timeout would have to be pretty quick, and of course any additional
hardware might just shift the problem from eliminating undesired sound to
maintaining desired sound. Still, the hardware could be very minimal and
reliable.

It's maybe worth mentioning this device called the Powerkey Pro, which is
eseentially an outlet strip with an ADB port. It lets you control power to
each outlet indiviually via function keys or Apple Events. I use one to
power amps, mixer and outboard equipment, so it's really easy to go from
small-speaker development mode to fill-the-room play mode. The control
application supports timed startup sequences and "turn these outlets off
whenever the computer turns off" functions, but since the timing is done by
the powerkey system extension it might crash when Max crashed.

------------------------------

Date:Fri, 13 Aug 1999 08:17:03 +1000
From:Garth Paine <garth@ACTIVATEDSPACE.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: mac boot-up sound


Chris wrote

> Simply have a relay that is triggered by power from the ADB bus,
>when the machine powers up, the relay waits a second or two and then
>re-connects the audio output. Should be fairly easy to build.

Now that's a great idea. I have used the 5V from the ADB before, but
never thought of that solution

Cheers,

Garth

Check out some of the tracks off my new CD at http://www.activatedspace.com.au
,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.
Activated Space
. Composer, Sound Designer, Installation Artist
.. Interactives Designer, Exhibition Consultant
........ph. 61 3 95720133
garth@activatedspace.com.au

.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.

------------------------------

Date:Thu, 12 Aug 1999 18:04:05 -0800
From:Peter Washburn <spambait@PACBELL.NET>
Subject: fft~ sync output

I get the impression from the documentationthat the sync output of the MSP
object fft~ is meant to ramp between 0 and (the number of points -1). Am I
mistaken in believing that it should do so each time the fft is calculated
(ie. ~ 86 times per second if your window size is 512 and your delay
between succesive fft's is 0). On my machine it only ramps one time in the
beginning, and then it stops. The fft keeps on going, but the ramp value
stays at 256 after the initial ramp. I can't see any practical reason for
this single ramp behaviour, but I also cannot seem to change it.

Anyone have any advice or insight?

Thanks,

Peter

ps. MAX 3.5.9-9, MSP 6.1, Performa 6400/180

------------------------------

End of MAX Digest - 11 Aug 1999 to 12 Aug 1999 (#1999-240)
**********************************************************