Subject: MAX Digest - 23 Jun 1999 to 24 Jun 1999 (#1999-190)
Date: Fri, 25 Jun 1999 00:00:00 -0400
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There are 12 messages totalling 493 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Patience Lombard
  2. fLOW - ambient sound generator (freeware)
  3. Midi joystick
  4. The Arid State of Peripheral Hardware around Lombard
  5. file formats (msp-jmax-compatibilities)
  6. symbols with spaces
  7. bag object
  8. MSP Summer School (1/2)
  9. MSP Summer School (2/2)
  10. msp-jmax-compatibilities
  11. Response Success
  12. usb midi


Date:Thu, 24 Jun 1999 00:38:24 -0400
From:Johnny DeKam <johnny@NODE.NET>
Subject: Patience Lombard

Patience is a virtue... the sonic port will surely be available with Mac
drivers within a couple of months.

If it's any consolation, I just bought one of the first shipping PCMCIA
Firewire cards on the market (from RATOC in .jp)I'm able to do broadcast
quality video on my wallstreet now... and 48k audio through my DV camera.

(caveat is that you need to use QuickTime to wrap the audio) -- on the other
hand Yamaha has promised a whole line of Firewire audio products... multi
channel yet!

"Arid" is the price that we artists pay for "progress" - it doesn't help
that Apple is in the midst of its most fundamental OS change in its history.
(Who has time for drivers when they're writing OSX?)
-- perfect example of all this is how long it took for MIDI usb products to
show up (due to sluggish Apple) - but sure enough they ~eventually~ shipped.

Johnny DeKam

Unauthorized Max --

>Nick Rothwell wrote:
> Opcode SONICport (USB). Windows 95/98 drivers. No Mac
> support. Waiting on OS support from Apple. Hence: no solution.
> E-mu PCMCIA card (8710PS?) with GM clutter onboard. Windows 95/98
> drivers. No Mac support. None promised. Hence: no solution.
> Magma PCI card cage. Expensive (not even including prices of
> cards). Web site rather sparse in terms of information about
> compatibility with software requiring "real" PCI cards, especially
> since we're talking digital audio here.


Date:Thu, 24 Jun 1999 08:32:02 +0200
From:"Dr. Karlheinz Essl" <essl@EUNET.AT>
Subject: fLOW - ambient sound generator (freeware)

fLOW 1.1
Ambient Sound Generator
(c) 1998-99 by Karlheinz Essl

For Apple Macintosh PPC and G3 computers
Released: 22 June 1999 (freeware)


Vienna (A) - fLOW is a DSP computer program running on Apple Macintosh G3
(or fast PPC) machines. Written in MSP, it generates an ever-changing and
never repeating soundscape in real time that fills the space with flooding
sounds that resemble - metaphorically - the timbres of water, fire, earth,
and air.

Originally, this soundscape formed the basis of the site-specific
performance work-in-progress fLOW that was carried out in numerous steps
and took place in various location with changing musicians from different
fields like New Music, experimental jazz, free improvisation and New
Electronic Music.

Hardware & System Requirements

* Apple PowerPC G3 (or a PPC with at least 180 MHz) with 8 MB min. free RAM
* MacOS 7.5 or better


fLOW, a freeware computer program for Apple Macintosh computers, can be
downloaded from:

Dr. Karlheinz Essl - Composer
Vienna / Austria
Studio for Advanced Music & Media Technology


Date:Thu, 24 Jun 1999 08:30:31 +0200
From:Tamas Ungvary <ungvary@KACOR.KTH.SE>
Subject: Midi joystick

Dear Maxers,

everybody who is still interested in a simple, cheep solution to construct a
Midi joystick pad, should look at

Double click on "Joystick Pad" and you will get a description as .pdf file.


Tamas Ungvary professor
Royal Institute of Technology (KTH)
Dept. of Speech, Music and Hearing (TMH)
S-100 44 Stockholm, Sweden
T: int + 46-8-21 16 36 , Fax : int + 46-8-790 78 54
e-mail :

KACOR group :


Date:Thu, 24 Jun 1999 08:39:05 +0100
From:david stevens <david@RESONANT.DEMON.CO.UK>
Subject: Re: The Arid State of Peripheral Hardware around Lombard

hi Nick,

i have a VXPocket on order from Digital Village in Barnet (call SCV (or is that
SVC?) to find your nearest distributor). According to SCV it should arrive any
day now, with Mac drivers. It's going into my PB/G3 233 - i don't know if it'll
still fit the new machines, but i assume so. The thing i'm holding my breath on
(aside from whether or not it'll actually arrive in time for a performance in
August :-) )is how much of a load it'll put on the processor of the mac, as my
patch is already pushing at the limits of my pb. As soon as i've had a chance to
try it out I'll let you all know how well it works.

> Does anyone have any positive news about doing serious live work with
> a G3 PowerBook?
> See
for info on a PC Card
> that does promise MacOS and ASIO support.


Date:Thu, 24 Jun 1999 10:35:01 +0000
From:maggi <Enzo.Maggi@IRCAM.FR>
Subject: Re: file formats (msp-jmax-compatibilities)

dudas wrote:
> The jMax file format is also a text file format, but it is completely
> different from the Max file format. While jMax is capable of reading Max
> text files (for backward-compatibility purposes with ISPW-Max0.2x), it does
> not currently write these files, as far as I know.

The jmax file format is a portable binary, not text.

Also, it must be said that jMax cannot save meaningful Max file
because the semantic of the language is reacher, and there is no direct
translations of some of the language features of jMax in Max.
By the way, jmax file format will be freely available and documented.

for more infos, take a look at the jmax doc

// Enzo Maggi - Real time system team


Date:Thu, 24 Jun 1999 12:55:49 +0200
From:Peter Castine <pcastine@PRZ.TU-BERLIN.DE>
Subject: Re: symbols with spaces

On around 24-6-99 4:25, David Zicarelli said something like:

>In the effort to make Max into a cross-platform application,
>certain Mac-centrisms are problematic. One of them is the
>use of "single smart quotes" to define symbols that have
>spaces in them.
>Without making single smart quotes invalid for this purpose
>on the Macintosh, I would propose to add the "grave" or
>"apostrophe" character(`)--

I think my Unix manuals refer to this character as "backquote."

Calling it an "accent grave" makes a lot more sense to me, but I've
probably been on the wrong(?) side of the Atlantic for too long.

Otherwise, I suppose the question is if anyone's been using the
grave/backquote mark within symbols (which would then make this a
backwards-compatibility issue). Not I.

In a pinch, Windows users _could_ use QuicKeys or the like to map a pair
of arbitrary keystrokes to whatever ALT-key combinations they would
otherwise need for typographical single quotes. But I can see that
Cycling & Opcode don't want to rely on 3rd party scripting utilities to
make Maxdoze usable.

OTOH, have Windows users cottoned on to including blanks in identifiers?-)

But, more seriously: can't we already use plain-vanilla "dumb" quotes
(inch marks) for symbols with embedded blanks? As an alternative to
typographical single-quotes? I haven't done this for ages, but my
recollection sez that works, too (for whatever my recollections are
worth). _If_ this is as my memory says, there would probably be fewer
backwards-compatibility issues if Max/Windows simply converted quote
marks from smart-single to dumb-double.

Hope this helps,


Dr. Peter Castine| I am very pleased to announce that the
4-15 Music & Technology| 26th International Computer Music Conference
| will take place in Berlin in the year 2000.
| We look forward to seeing you here!


Date:Thu, 24 Jun 1999 15:53:24 +0200
From:Eirik Lie <eirik.lie@NOTAM.UIO.NO>
Subject: bag object

How many numbers can the bag object store? I can't find any answer in the
manual or the help files. One would think that if you store additional
numbers in a bag, sooner or later the computer would crash because of stack
overflow? Is there any method for limiting the bag to, say, 16 numbers, so
that when you store the 17th number, the first (oldest) one is deleted?

Basically, I want to store a number in bag at regular intervals. At
irregular (unpredictable) intervals, the bag will be banged to send out the
numbers, and I want to make a list of the 16 most recently stored numbers.
Of course I could set up a cycling counter to store the numbers in a table
or a funbuff, but the bag object seems so much simpler. Any other ideas?

Eirik Lie, Bjornerabben 9, N-0383 Oslo, Norway
Email: +47 22 50 23 14
Check out my CD "12 Bilder":


Date:Thu, 24 Jun 1999 23:44:19 +0900
From:Masayuki Akamatsu <aka@IAMAS.AC.JP>
Subject: MSP Summer School (1/2)

MSP Summer School (Japanese version follows)

at IAMAS (Gifu, Japan)
August 25 - 29, 1999

MSP Summer School will be held at IAMAS, in Gifu, Japan, from August 25 until
August 29, 1999. This is an intensive 5 day workshop that will focuse on MSP
programming by the developer, David Zicarelli, and other instructors, Leslie
Stuck, Miwa Masahiro, Masayuki Akamatsu and Suguru Goto. The course will be
divided into two levels for beginners and advanced students.

For further information :
email :

(Japanese version $B!K (J
MSP $B%5%^!<%9%/!<%k (J

$B2;3Z@):n$NCf?4$, (JMIDI $B3Z4o$d (JHD $B%l%3!<%@$K0\9T$7$?$N$bB+$N4V!":G6a$G$O!" (JCPU $B%Q%o
$B!<$NA}Bg$H$H$b$K%3%s%T%e!<%?$K$h$k2;8;@):n$d2;6A=hM}$,<B8=$7!"%l%3!<%G%#%s%0 (J
$B$d%i%$%V!&%Q%U%)!<%^%s%9!"%$%s%9%?%l!<%7%g%s$J$I$KI}9-$/1~MQ$5$l$F$$$^$9!#$= (J
$B$3$G!"8=:_$b$C$H$bCmL\$5$l$F$$$k@):n4D6-$G$"$k (JMSP(*) $B$r%F!<%^$K!"$=$N3+H/<T$G (J
$B$"$k (JDavid Zicarelli $B;a$i$r>7f[$7!" (JMSP $B%5%^!<%9%/!<%k$r3+:E$7$^$9!# (J

$B$3$N%5%^!<%9%/!<%k$G$O!"=i?4<T$H7P83<T$N#2%3!<%9$KJ,$+$l!"%o!<%/%7%g%C%W7A<0 (J
$B$G3F<+$N%3%s%T%e!<%?$rA`:n$7$J$,$i!" (JMSP $B$N4pAC$+$i1~MQ$^$G$rBN83E*$K=,F@$9$k (J
$B$3$H$,$G$-$^$9!#$^$?!"%$%V%K%s%0%;%C%7%g%s$G$O:nIJ>R2p$d0U8+8r49$J$I$rDL$8$F (J
$B!"8DJL6qBNE*$JFbMF$r7!$j2<$2$F$$$-$^$9!# (J

$BB?:L$J9V;U?X$O$b$H$h$j!"=i?4<T$+$i=ON}<T$^$G!"MM!9$J%"!<%F%#%9%H$d8&5f<T$,=8 (J
$B7k$9$k2F4|9V=,2q$G$9!# (JMSP $B$,$b$?$i$9?7$7$$%F%/%N%m%8!<$HI=8=$K6=L#$r$*;}$A$N (J
$BJ}$O!"$<$R$4;22C$/$@$5$$!# (J

$B!!!!!!!!2q4|!' (J1999 $BG/#87n (J25 $BF| (J( $B?e (J) $B!A (J29 $BF| (J( $BF| (J)
$B!!3FF|$H$b (J9:00 $B!A (J19:00
$B!!!!!!!!2q>l!'9q:]>pJs2J3X7]=Q%"%+%G%_!<!J (JIAMAS $B!K (J
$B!!!!!!!!9V;U!' (JDavid Zicarelli $B!" (JLeslie Stuck $B!"8eF# (J$B1Q!";0NX (J
$BbC90!"@V>> (J$B@59T (J
$B!!!!<u9V<T?t!' (J50 $BL>!J@hCe=g!K (J
$B!!!!!!<u9VNA!' (J20,000 $B1_ (J
$B!!!!>\:Y>pJs!' (J

MSP Summer School
International Academy of Media Arts and Sciences (IAMAS)
3-95 Ryouke-cho, Ogaki, Gifu, 503-0014, Japan

web site :
email :


Date:Thu, 24 Jun 1999 23:44:24 +0900
From:Masayuki Akamatsu <aka@IAMAS.AC.JP>
Subject: MSP Summer School (2/2)

Call for your article and your proposal of the presentation
(Japanese version follows)

MSP Summer School (at IAMAS in Gifu, Japan, August 25 - 29, 1999)

MSP Summer School invites you to send your proposal of your article or your
presentation concerning your patches, your external objects, and your VST
Plug-ins which are originally created, or any subjects which are related to
- The selected presentations will be presented in the Evening Session during
MSP Summer School.
- The selected articles will be published on the proceedings of MSP Summer

For further information :
email :

(Japanese version $B!K (J
MSP $B%5%^!<%9%/!<%k!!%W%l%<%s%F!<%7%g%s$HO@J8$NJg=8 (J

MSP $B%5%^!<%9%/!<%k$G$O!"FH<+$K3+H/$7$?%Q%C%A!"%(%/%9%?!<%J%k!&%*%V%8%'%/%H!" (J
VST Plug-ins $B$J$I$NH/I=!" (JMSP $B$K4X$9$kMM!9$J%F!<%^$N%W%l%<%s%F!<%7%g%s!"4s9F$r (J
$BJg=8$7$^$9!# (J
$B!vA*$P$l$?H/I=<T$NJ}$O!"2q4|Cf:E$5$l$k%W%l%<%s%F!<%7%g%s$NCf$GH/I=$7$FD:$-$^ (J
$B$9!# (J
$B!vA*$P$l$?O@J8$O!"3+:ECf!"G[IU$5$l$kO@J8=8$NCf$GH/I=$5$l$^$9!# (J

$B$*?=$79~$_!"$*Ld$$9g$;@h!' (J
$B") (J503-0014 $B!!4tIl8)Bg3@;TNN2HD. (J3-95
$B9q:]>pJs2J3X7]=Q%"%+%G%_!<Fb (J
MSP $B%5%^!<%9%/!<%k<B9T0Q0w2q (J
TEL.0584-75-6633 $B!! (JFAX.0584-75-6633
$B%[!<%`%Z!<%8!' (J
$BEE;R%a!<%k!' (

MSP Summer School
International Academy of Media Arts and Sciences (IAMAS)
3-95 Ryouke-cho, Ogaki, Gifu, 503-0014, Japan
web site :
email :


Date:Thu, 24 Jun 1999 18:11:39 +0200
From:"Francois Dechelle (by way of Manuel Poletti)"
Subject: Re: msp-jmax-compatibilities

filip wrote:
> hi all
> as jmax deals with mainly the same objects as msp, and jmax AND msp is

> compatible to ircam-max there should be a fileformat or so to open a
> jmax-patch as msp-patch and vice versa.
> any experiences? (it doesn=B4t work with save as text)


There are in fact 2 points: the file format and the object set.

Regarding file format, jMax can load .pat files saved by "ircam-max"
(I suppose that you mean the Max running on the Ircam Signal Processing
Workstation). It can also load patches saved by Max/MSP, but there may
remain some incompatibilities, like break-points connections. If so,
I'd be glad to remove these so that jMax can fully load .pat files.
On the contrary, jMax saves patches in a binary format that cannot
be loaded by Max/MSP. It should be possible to add a "save as .pat"
functionnality to jMax, but there is no guaranty of a 100%

=46or the object set, there are objects that are the same, objects
that do the same but have different names, and objects which are
differents. There are a few solutions to deal with that: templates
(in jMax), abstractions (in Max/MSP) and doctors. "doctors" are a
jMax specific functionnality that work like macros: a doctor can
for instance replace one object by another with different arguments,
and still save the old name.

> besides that: is jmax and cycling=B474 friendly to each other??

Yes. Ircam distributes cycling'74 MSP. I'd love that cycling'74
distributes jMax.

> best wishes
> klaus



Date:Thu, 24 Jun 1999 16:23:33 -0400
From:Nicholas Longo <71477.2332@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject: Re: Response Success

<Just wanted those who haven't jumped on it yet that the new Challenge
<Response mechanism is now available for everyone who own's Max (etc.). I
<downloaded the new Max 3.5.9-9, sent Opcode the Challenge, received the
<Response two days later, and, voila, goodbye

<It seems Pace has finally done something very close to common sense,
<because even if you should lose the authorization provided by
<chall/respons., Max now works for 30 days *without* any authorization.

<Well, it made me happy.

<(...and we should thank Apple, I guess. They kicked out the floppydrive
<and provoked/forced PACE do something they probably never would have
<done otherwise.)


That's great, but before I ask for an authorization code I have a question.
My understanding is that this code is generated for the specific computer
or hard disk the program is running on? Is this so? If it is, what do
I do when I upgrade my computer, as I expect to do soon? If I authorize
an external hard disk, then run it on a new computer (with a new System

version) will the old authorization code work?

Nick Longo


Date:Thu, 24 Jun 1999 15:11:19 PDT
From:v a u g h n <inspireveryone@HOTMAIL.COM>
Subject: usb midi

once again, has anyone had any experience with any of the usb midi


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End of MAX Digest - 23 Jun 1999 to 24 Jun 1999 (#1999-190)