Subject: MAX Digest - 18 Jun 1999 to 19 Jun 1999 (#1999-185)
Date: Sun, 20 Jun 1999 00:00:06 -0400
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There are 7 messages totalling 319 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Max via text & TCP/IP
  2. Max/MSP & POWER (2)
  3. G3 jumpers
  4. 3 identical CDs
  5. synching CD players (2)

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Date:Fri, 18 Jun 1999 22:36:09 -0700
From:dudas <dudas@CNMAT.BERKELEY.EDU>
Subject: Max via text & TCP/IP

>>First, is there a way to program in
>>Max via text--i.e., standard C or C++?

well, it's not C or C++, but James McCartney's "pyrite" object lets you
program in text (the language is called pyrite, if I'm not mistaken - a
predecessor of his SuperCollider vers.1 langauge) and has a variety of
primitives to manipulate lists (in addition to the usual int, float). The
code you type in the object's text editor window is compiled and the object
is fast. It's not up everyone's alley, though, but LiSP and Scheme fans
usually adore it!!

Now some trivia:
back at ircam in the early 90s there were people who were generating Max
patchesusing LiSP (or more precisely, using Patchwork, Mikael Laurson's
graphical "lisp in a box"). As I seem to remember, the patches themselves
were pretty simple, the main point of using Patchwork was just to generate
data for the qlist object, which, at the time, only saved its contents in
the patch, and could not read and write files to disk.


>>Third, is there a way I could get a program running on a Unix
>>machine to speak to Max over a TCP/IP connection?
>
> There's a TCP/IP object for Max. The author reads the list, and I'm
> ashamed to admit that I can't remember the name of it right now. Dang.

The TCP/IP objects you're thinking of are by the guys at the Stichting
Rainstick: http://valley.interact.nl/AV/ORG/Rainst/

Also, Matt Wright at CNMAT has written a OT/UDP object, for network
communication. see: http://www.cnmat.berkeley.edu/max/

-R

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Date:Fri, 18 Jun 1999 22:39:11 +0200
From:Michael Wieser <m.k.w@MAGNET.AT>
Subject: Re: Max/MSP & POWER

Hi!

48degrees C what? Air? Housing temp, Chiptemp? Coolertemp?


If the air at the cooling-fan-G3housing-outlet has 48degrees C it isn`t a
good sign. From my point this seems _very hot_ inside the G3-housing. This
airtemp shouldn`t exceed 35-40 degrees C.
Don`t forget, that the Harddisks(!) and other components need to be warmer
than the air for cooling themselves. Even if the HDis placed on the
bottom of the housing, also the other chips have more then 48 degrees C,
and normaly most of the usualy used ICs are specified to "operating in free
air" at 70 degrees C in non industrial used computers. And from 48 to 70
degrees it is not a big span. When you have some hot spots or dust
somewhere, you can reach this 70 degrees realy fast.
Of course the G3 will still work with this higher temp, but the risk for
some unexpected actions is much higher the normal.
One solution is to remove one ore more of the PCI-slot cover in the CPU
area, so the fan can catch more air from thie side.
I did tests on my PCs (Dual P200, 4Harddisks, 2VGAs, Network and 3 other
cards) and found that the temp at the powersupply fan outlet decreases
about 8 degrees from 40 to 32 degrees if I remove the bottm of the
ISA-cover.....

If the cluminium-cooler on the CPU has only 48 degrees, it`s OK, because
this reduces lifetime from about many years to something around some years
(in German I would say pi mal Daumen, I don`t know the english version....)

And 48 degrees C chiptemp isn`t worth any more words.


hth

>On Thu, 17 Jun 1999, Tommy DOG wrote:
>>
>> Do not fear the cheap way to more power.
>
> Speaking of the cheap way to more power... I recently changed 1 tiny
>jumper on my G3/233 and now it is a G3/300! It is running like a charm at
>48 degrees C. MSP and my 2408 are running really smoothly with this combo
>as well, and I noticed the extra CPU power right away. Anyone else try
>this and/or know of any potential harm that could be comming my way
>because of it?
>
>Cheers,
>
>Chris
>
>
Michael Wieser
m.k.w@magnet.at

Service and Audiodesign

------------------------------

Date:Sat, 19 Jun 1999 13:05:21 -0400
From:Eric Singer <eric@ERICSINGER.COM>
Subject: Re: G3 jumpers

Has anyone tried this? What about heat-sinking requirements? Is a 266 G3
set up to handle the extra heat-sinking 300Mhz will require? No other bus
differences either?

Eric


At 8:30 AM -0400 6/18/99, Christopher Murtagh wrote:
>Yesterday Peter Castine wrote:
>>But... where's the tiny jumper. If the gurus approve the procedure, I'd
>>like to see how my 266 responds...


>
> I've posted the document that I found that had all the info at:
>
>http://www.music.mcgill.ca/max/jumper.html
>
> It is pretty straight forward, and has all the info you should need.
>WARNING!! Use at your own risk. Reading this document can be harmful to
>your G3. :)
>
>Cheers,
>
>Chris

------------------------------

Date:Sat, 19 Jun 1999 13:34:54 -0400
From:Christopher Murtagh <chris@MUSIC.MCGILL.CA>
Subject: Re: Max/MSP & POWER

On Fri, 18 Jun 1999, Michael Wieser wrote:
> 48degrees C what? Air? Housing temp, Chiptemp? Coolertemp?

The 48 degrees is the CPU temperature according to the Powerlog!x
Speedmeter (you can download it from http://www.powerlogix.com/home.html).
Funny thing is that I ran it on two other G3s at my place (both
all-in-ones at 233 and 266 Mhz - not overclocked) and it said the
temperature was 48 at one and 52 at the other!

I found a few good pages on the web about this topic. Check out:

The Clock-chipping page (overclocking):

http://violet.berkeley.edu/~schrier/mhz.html

and for Beige G3s specifically:

http://violet.berkeley.edu/~schrier/pmg3_233_266.html

I might put another fan in my G3 to see if helps the temperature at all.
If anyone is interested in the results, email me. To date though, my
machine has been really stable and has been running beautifully.

Cheers,

Chris

P.S. if anyone can find a site with the PPC750 (aka G3) with specs such as
temperature ranges etc. please let me know. I've looked everywhere and I
can't find anything.

------------------------------

Date:Sat, 19 Jun 1999 14:12:37 +0100
From:Hans Tutschku <Hans.Tutschku@IRCAM.FR>
Subject: Re: 3 identical CDs

>Hello--Do any of you have experience with synching CD players? I am
>wondering if I began playing 3 identical CDs from the pause mode on 3
>identical machines if they
>would end at the same time. I'm working on an installation where I would
>like to have 3 sound sources fairly accurately synched.
>Thanks, Linda Dusman
>

This not possible. The 3 CDs don't start *exactly* synchronous.
Be aware that you can't use 3 identical copies on Mac. They wouldn't be
recognised. You have to burn 3 copies, where you add blank tracks of different


length on copy 2 and 3 (all 3 CDs have to have different length of
data-blocks, otherwise TOAST - or any
other burning program - will generate the same serial number for all three
CDs and MAC-OS
can't distinguish between them).

Hope, this helps. Hans


---------------------------
Hans Tutschku
http://www.multimania.com/hanstutschku

------------------------------

Date:Sun, 20 Jun 1999 11:32:43 +1000
From:David Rodger <auricle@ALPHALINK.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: synching CD players

Linda Dusman wrote:
>Do any of you have experience with synching CD players? I am
>wondering if I began playing 3 identical CDs from the pause mode on 3
>identical machines if they would end at the same time.

I don't have an answer but it reminds me of something I tried to do a few
years ago. I wished to synch a sequence with pre-recorded music on a CD.
I thought that, since CDs have 75 "frames" per second and MAX's CD object
can report frames, I could use the frame reports as timing pulse (and maybe
convert to MIDI Clock or even MIDI Time Code).

It didn't work, because I couldn't get the CD-ROM drive to start at exactly
the same place every time. So I suspect that if you tried to synch drives
you couldn't be quite sure that they'd all start in synching; they could be
out of synch by up to 3 frames (in my experience, anyway).

Garth Paine, if he's reading this, might have a suggestion. He's used
mutliple drives in installations before, but I don't know if he tried
synching them. Garth?

Regards, David

David Rodger:Audio Engineer, RLSS Lifeguard Trainer, Writing & Research
mailto:auricle@alphalink.com.auhttp://farben.latrobe.edu.au/motion
http://www.alphalink.com.au/~auriclehttp://www.alphalink.com.au/~adzohu
=========================================================================
Unshackle the Internet: no auto-HTML'd e-mail, no ms-tnef, no .vcf

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Date:Sun, 20 Jun 1999 11:49:13 +1000
From:Garth Paine <garth@ACTIVATEDSPACE.COM.AU>
Subject: Re: synching CD players

>Garth Paine, if he's reading this, might have a suggestion. He's used
>mutliple drives in installations before, but I don't know if he tried
>synching them. Garth?

Well that seems like a call to me ;)

I have used up to 7 CD-ROM drives driven from MAX for installations - I
haven't ever tried to synchronise them that accuratelly - the times when I
wanted them to synch +/- 1 second was fine and that seemed a big enough


window for consisitency - I have used them when they have been triggered by
external sensors and sound effects had to synch with a pram that was
running on a track and causing havock in a shopping centre - this required
the sounds to be triggered and synchronis with moments when the pram passed
certain events - the CD_ROM thing worked OK, but never stop the drive,
always put it into pause mode, and preferably pre-cue it for the next track
you will want.

Depending on the size of your files there are a number of other ways of
doing what you ask.

You could use a sampler with lots of RAm and multiple outputs - I assume
you want to use multiple CD's becuase you want the individual outputs to be
dispersed seperately?

You could use MSP, and a multi output card in the MAC - ie Korg 1212 etc

You could use other methods like Rolands AR100 flash card players which are
excelent, but much more expensive to purchase than a CD-ROM drive.

note the sound advice given by Hans Tutschku about CD lengths. I learned
this the hard way, which cost me a lot of money before I owned a CD burner
as the CD production place didn't know about this either. You really do
have to add a silence track at the end of each CD of a different length or
the MAC will simply not mount your multiple CD's - belive me when your in a
hurry to get an installation happenning this is VERY easy to forget.

I don't use CD-ROM drives anymore, as MSP and the AR100's are much more
reliable.

Another thing to note with the CD object is that whilest it is searching
for the track start and initiating the play sequence the rest of MAX goes
on hold, so you need to keep this in mind in terms of triggering multiple
CD's at once and any other time critical things that may be going on - MIDI
etc.

Well I hope that helps a bit.

Cheers,

Garth

BTW: note that I have changed email and www addresses to activatedspace.com.au
creativeaccess.com.au will not work after June 01, 1999


,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.
Activated Space
. Composer, Sound Designer, Installation Artist
.. Interactives Designer, Exhibition Consultant
........ph. 61 3 95720133
garth@activatedspace.com.au
http://www.activatedspace.com.au
.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.

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End of MAX Digest - 18 Jun 1999 to 19 Jun 1999 (#1999-185)
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