Subject: MAX Digest - 6 Jun 1999 to 7 Jun 1999 (#1999-171)
Date: Tue, 8 Jun 1999 00:00:01 -0400
From:
Automatic digest processor <LISTSERV@LISTS.MCGILL.CA>
Reply-To: MAX - Interactive Music/Multimedia Standard Environments <MAX@LISTS.MCGILL.CA>
To: Recipients of MAX digests <MAX@LISTS.MCGILL.CA>


There are 12 messages totalling 392 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. HyperMIDI
  2. problem getting audio in on G3 powerbook (2)
  3. movies and loops (3)
  4. Graphics- quasi Present Movie - thanks
  5. MAX-enabled Performance @ Knitting Factory - 14 June 1999
  6. movieplus
  7. NOODLE & stuff
  8. movieplus`
  9. NYC Max user group?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:Sun, 6 Jun 1999 22:13:40 -0700
From:dudas <dudas@CNMAT.BERKELEY.EDU>
Subject: HyperMIDI

Christopher Dobrian writes:

>HyperMIDI from EarLevel Engineering is the best way to use MIDI in
>Director. It worked fine up through Director version 6.5. I haven't tested
>it with version 7.
>It's for Mac only, but if you're using Max you're obviously already an
>enlightened computer user. ;)

Just in case anyone out there uses Director on a PC, there is a PC xobj for
Director which simulates a lot of the functionality of HyperMidi. I
remember looking into it in preparation for a Multimedia project that
eventually went bust. I don't remember what the package is called, but it
does exist. Can anyone refresh my memory?

-R

------------------------------

Date:Mon, 7 Jun 1999 01:58:32 -0400
From:Marcel Wierckx <mwierc@PO-BOX.MCGILL.CA>
Subject: Re: problem getting audio in on G3 powerbook

>>I'm recently started using a G3/266 Powerbook for MSP, and noticed that in
>>MaxPlay and my standalones there is no way to get audio input (the dsp
>>status window shows "default" as the input source)

>This is the second report of this problem I have had. The solution
>is to reinstall your system...that's the only way of getting
>sound input devices back.

Reinstalling the system has worked, but I'm curious as to what the source
of the problem was and if there is an easier way to fix it if it happens
again.


>>(An aside note: Pace and Opcode can go to hell if they expect me to pay
>>$200 for a superdrive to authorize software I've already paid for.)
>
>I think a floppy drive that fits in your powerbook is more


>like $100, and this requirement will end soon. But hey, go ahead
>and get mad about feeling like you have to buy something that
>doesn't even work with your machine.

I'm sorry for my rant, I'm just feeling frustrated that I can't work with
Max on my brand new machine. (BTW, $100 US for a floppy drive comes pretty
darned close to $200 CDN, but I won't split hairs :) :)


Marcel

------------------------------

Date:Mon, 7 Jun 1999 10:38:38 +0200
From:Jeffrey Burns <jeff@BERLIN.SNAFU.DE>
Subject: movies and loops

Although I haven't experimented with loops, I have tried out a technique
that was suggested some time ago on the Digest, that of giving the movie
object the indeces of each individual frame to be played, rather than just
telling it to go at its own pleasure. Apparently the movie object likes
this and becomes slightly more efficient, and, clearly, this technique
would take the guesswork out of getting a loop to play to its end. I
suspect, however, that the problem with loops isn't a question of the right
indices. Rather, that the codecs are optimized for playing movies from the
beginning to the end. The moment you jump around, the codec dosen't work
for you any more, and the CPU needs time to recalculate the image. For a
loop, the solution might be to copy the first frame of beginning of the
loop to its end and recompile the movie, provided that the looping point is
stationary.

BTW, if I remember correctly, there was some problem with movieplus
concerning the command to hide the movie window frame. Has that been
corrected?

Jeff Burns

http://www.snafu.de/~jeff

------------------------------

Date:Mon, 7 Jun 1999 11:43:28 +0100
From:Rob Godman <rob.godman@VIRGIN.NET>
Subject: Graphics- quasi Present Movie - thanks

Many thanks to all those that got back to me regarding the graphics
questions. The graphics window problem was quite simple as you'll know
apart from one thing that still isn't working for me.
The patch below is taken from the Addendum part of the manual......

max v2;
#N vpatcher 61 117 461 417;
#P message 276 71 60 196617 \; max clean \; max quit;
#P newex 276 48 51 196617 closebang;
#N graphic Graphics--6 0 1 0 1024 768;
#P newobj 51 166 105 196617 graphic 1 0 1024 748;
#P message 160 128 91 196617 close \; max showmenubar;
#P message 51 127 104 196617 open \; max hidemenubar;
#P newex 51 102 44 196617 TogEdge;
#P newex 51 78 50 196617 select 32;
#P newex 51 55 27 196617 key;
#P connect 6 0 7 0;
#P connect 3 0 5 0;
#P connect 2 0 3 0;
#P fasten 2 1 4 0 90 122 165 122;
#P connect 1 0 2 0;
#P connect 0 0 1 0;


#P pop;

All is fine apart from "graphic Graphics--6 0 1 0 1024 768"- 1024 768
being the setting of my monitor at the moment. This does fill the
screen. However, it's still possible to move the screen with the mouse
from the bottom (which I don't want)- with or without the fifth digit
removing the screen frame. Changing any of these numbers (even making
768 larger) doesn't make the problem go away. Is there an answer?
Director sounds like a different kettle of fish.......
--
*******************************************************************
Rob Godman
Composer

4 Mill Close Wotton-under-Edge Gloucestershire GL12 7LP United Kingdom
T. (44) 01453 521895
F. (44) 01453 844447

For more information (if slightly out of date......)

http://www.composer.co.uk/musicnow/composers/godman.html
*******************************************************************

------------------------------

Date:Mon, 7 Jun 1999 09:13:29 -0400
From:James Lawrence Keepnews <keeper@RPI.EDU>
Subject: Re: MAX-enabled Performance @ Knitting Factory - 14 June 1999

MAX-ies:

A quick note about a performance of improvised music Holland Hopson and
I are doing next week, Monday 14 June at 7:00 PM in the Alterknit
Theater at the Knitting Factory, NYC, NY, USA. Part of the Bunker Annex
series, it features myself on electric guitar, electric bass and
electronics and HH on soprano sax, "little instruments," and
electronics. MAX scheduling, hocketing, false fingering (for guitar as
much as for sax...), triple-tounging (see previous description),
real-time sampling, the world premiere of Holland's new haircut, &c.,
&c...we hope to see you there.

-----------------------------------------------------------------
~> --- James Keepnews --- <"Don't quote anybody, Sir!"
(.-.)> -- Multimedia Yahoo -- <
\*-- Krishnamurti
-> -keepnews@node.net - <
-----------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:Mon, 7 Jun 1999 09:15:45 -0400
From:Neal Farwell <nfarwell@FAS.HARVARD.EDU>
Subject: Re: movieplus

>Another way of dealing with loops is to define start and end frame indexes,
>and set up a "sel" object to listen for the end of the frame. The
>resulting bang from a match bangs the start frame index, and, voila, you
>have a loop that runs wonderfully all the time. However, if you speed up
>the movie, there is the almost guaranteed chance that your magic "end
>frame" won't be played, and therefore won't be matched by your "sel," and
>your loop will not loop...
>Peter.


I haven't played with movies at all, but would a ">= (desired end frame)"
followed by a "select 1" avoid the risk of missing the frame?


Neal

------------------------------

Date:Mon, 7 Jun 1999 09:22:51 -0400
From:Neal Farwell <nfarwell@FAS.HARVARD.EDU>
Subject: Re: problem getting audio in on G3 powerbook

>Subject: Re: problem getting audio in on G3 powerbook
>
>Marcel Wierckx <mwierc@PO-BOX.MCGILL.CA> writes:
>
>>I'm recently started using a G3/266 Powerbook for MSP, and noticed that in
>>MaxPlay and my standalones there is no way to get audio input (the dsp
>>status window shows "default" as the input source). Even the Sound control
>>panel tells me that there are no input devices available, not even the
>>built-in mic, CD or external jack.
>
>This is the second report of this problem I have had. The solution
>is to reinstall your system...that's the only way of getting
>sound input devices back.


I had the same problem on my 8600/250, OS8.1 (can't remember whether it was
MSP I'd just installed).

TechTool reported a damaged "System" file - rather than reinstalling the
whole system, I was able just to copy across this one file from a backup
boot zip (having first made a safety copy of the damaged file). That solved
it...

Neal

------------------------------

Date:Mon, 7 Jun 1999 09:44:57 -0400
From:Tommy DOG <mrsvomit@TOMMYDOG.COM>
Subject: NOODLE & stuff

>
>Date:
Sun, 6 Jun 1999 23:40:20 -0400
>From:
Christopher Murtagh <chris@MUSIC.MCGILL.CA>
>Subject: Noodle (fwd)
>
> Wow, Ray just sent me this, and I think it is too good not to share.
>
>http://www.realworld.co.uk/rwmm/noodle/
>
>Check this out, it is very interesting and a fantastic concept.

NOODLE is very cool. I played with it last week and I've been playing
around with how I can do a CDROM instead of releasing a regular CD for the
next release.

Anyone, especially in NYC who wants to help me and The Brain People in a
project like this should contact me via E-mail (mrsvomit@tommydog.com)

Now when can we do something to port Kyma or create a Kyma like system to
MAX/MSP?

TD
PS Feel free to buy The Brain People's "The Buzz More Crave", I'll
hopefully be putting up a quote page soon which will have some of the
shocking feedback the CD has caused. Meanwhile there are .wav files to
listen to.

"Death To The Dumb, Curses Upon The Heads Of The Weird"


Tommy DOG: Subverting technology in the name of ART
http://www.tommydog.com/

*******************************************************
New CD By The Brain People: http://www.tommydog.com/buzz

------------------------------

Date:Mon, 7 Jun 1999 11:42:12 +0100
From:Christopher Dobrian <dobrian@UCI.EDU>
Subject: Re: movieplus`

Peter Nyboer <pnyboer@SIRIUS.COM> wrote:

>Another way of dealing with loops is to define start and end frame indexes,
>and set up a "sel" object to listen for the end of the frame. The
>resulting bang from a match bangs the start frame index, and, voila, you
>have a loop that runs wonderfully all the time. However, if you speed up
>the movie, there is the almost guaranteed chance that your magic "end
>frame" won't be played, and therefore won't be matched by your "sel," and
>your loop will not loop.

Peter,

There's a common and effective way to solve that problem. Instead of using a
"sel x" object -- which is in effect equivalent to an "== x" object
followed by a "sel 1" object -- simply use a ">= x" object followed by a
"sel 1" object. The "sel 1" object will then bang whenever x is reached,
but will also bang if a number greater than x is reached. For intercepting
an arrival point of an increasing (but indeterminate) stream of numbers,
this is the "correct" way, I think.

--Chris


----------
Christopher Dobrian / Department of Music / University of California, Irvine
Phone: (949) 824-7288 / Fax: (949) 824-4914 / http://www.arts.uci.edu/dobrian

------------------------------

Date:Mon, 7 Jun 1999 23:54:01 +0200
From:Peter Castine <pcastine@PRZ.TU-BERLIN.DE>
Subject: Re: movies and loops

On around 7-6-99 10:38, Jeffrey Burns said something like:

>Rather, that the codecs are optimized for playing movies from the
>beginning to the end. The moment you jump around, the codec dosen't work
>for you any more, and the CPU needs time to recalculate the image. For a
>loop, the solution might be to copy the first frame of beginning of the
>loop to its end and recompile the movie, provided that the looping point is
>stationary.

It's not the codecs so much as the compression schemes. Many compression
schemes make use of the fact that two sequential frames have a lot of
common or similar pixels, so what they encode is (very roughly speaking)
the difference between succesive frames. This is efficient for sequential
decoding, but if you go skipping around, the decoder will have to do a
lot of extra work (jump to the new frame, then back up a couple of frames
in order to put together the entire image...).

Note the qualifier in the second sentence above: "many". Not "all". The
JPEG compression scheme (which was essentially MPEG 1, as I recall), just
compressed each individual frame. But I don't think people are using JPEG
for movies very much nowadays.


Cheers,

Peter

----------------- http://www.prz.tu-berlin.de/~pcastine/-----------------
Dr. Peter Castine| I am very pleased to announce that the
4-15 Music & Technology| 26th International Computer Music Conference
| will take place in Berlin in the year 2000.
| We look forward to seeing you here!

------------------------------

Date:Mon, 7 Jun 1999 16:03:08 -0700
From:Alex Stahl <alex@PIXAR.COM>
Subject: Re: movies and loops

At some point somewhat recently, Someone wrote:
>The JPEG compression scheme (which was essentially MPEG 1, as I recall), just
>compressed each individual frame. But I don't think people are using JPEG
>for movies very much nowadays.

MPEG2, which like it or not is here to stay, can be (ab)used to create
JPEG-like intraframe-compression-only movies.

This compression scheme which is at the heart of DVD and DTV, allows a
variable ratio between I-frames (which are intraframe only, that is
complete unto themselves) and B- and P- frames (which also use interframe
compression, that is they refer back or forward to the nearest I frame).

Since jumping around a lot is a big part of editing plain old linear
movies, some big video manufacturers are promoting I-frame only MPEG2,
where the B and P frame rate is set to zero. Sony's HDCAM HDTV tape format
relies on this. The compression efficiency of course takes a big hit, but
it is random-access friendly and should be compatible with standard codecs
if the system can handle the bandwidth. I suspect this approach may soon
trickle down into desktop editing software, video cards and so forth.

-Alex Stahl

------------------------------

Date:Mon, 7 Jun 1999 19:31:54 -0400
From:Charles Cohen <ccohen@VOICENET.COM>
Subject: NYC Max user group?

Is the proposed meeting still happening?

--

****What's Charles up to? ****
http://www.voicenet.com/~ccohen

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End of MAX Digest - 6 Jun 1999 to 7 Jun 1999 (#1999-171)
********************************************************