Subject: MAX Digest - 19 May 1999 to 20 May 1999 (#1999-152)
Date: Fri, 21 May 1999 00:00:08 -0400
From: Automatic digest processor 
Reply-To: MAX - Interactive Music/Multimedia Standard Environments
     
To: Recipients of MAX digests 

There are 18 messages totalling 645 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. MAX Digest - 18 May 1999 to 19 May 1999 (#1999-151)
  2. adb i/o
  3. Max programming (2)
  4. tuning acoustical instruments with fft
  5. PLUGGO - Plugmaker problems (3)
  6. SMPTE Help
  7. ADBIO (Sensors)
  8. tapin~ freezing
  9. ADB i/o was sensors
 10. VNS
 11. sensors
 12. PLUGGO - Changing Parameters Problems (3)
 13. video sensors

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 20 May 1999 14:20:28 +1000
From:    "Sensor.E Overlobe" 
Subject: Re: MAX Digest - 18 May 1999 to 19 May 1999 (#1999-151)

option - click everything.. and mess with the help patches.. just be
careful to not save over them.. then again you can always reinstall.....

>Is there a video or better tutorials or someone who would spend some
>mentor time to get my butt off the ground and into the world of
>MAX?

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 20 May 1999 02:20:13 -0400
From:    Ken Gregory 
Subject: adb i/o

  data acquisition interface, the ADB I/O  box by Bzzzzzz

http://www.bzzzzzz.com/BeeHive/ADB_IO/ADBIO_Intro.html

There's lots of info there about it. And there is an external object for
Max which can communicate with it somewhere there too.

Hope this helps.
ken

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 20 May 1999 09:57:25 +0200
From:    Peter Castine 
Subject: Re: Max programming

On around 19-5-99 8:41, Michael Carlito said something like:

>Please excuse me for posting this but I really need some input and
>this is the place to post I'm sure.

This is as good a place as any I can think of for the query.

>     I own MAX and I want to have a
>long a fruitful experience with this software. Problem I can't get
>past some of the concepts and move on if you will to greater things.
>Is there a video or better tutorials or someone who would spend some
>mentor time to get my butt off the ground and into the world of
>MAX?

Some people take to Max like a duck to water; some folks need time and a
bit of help to get over the bumps; and some (like Opcode's trade show
staff & tech support people) never get on with it.

For the middle group of people, usually a Max workshop or week's course
is the what it takes to get started with the program. I'm guessing from
the e-mail address that Michael's somewhere in the Albany area? If so,
and if you can get into contact with the music dept. at SUNY Albany, I'd
expect you could find some people who have Max chops, or there may be
open workshops at some time. The e-mail support on this list is great
when you have a specific question, but I think at the beginning of the
learning stage some personal contact (either 1-to-1 or in a small group)
is more productive.

Good luck!

Peter

----------------- http://www.prz.tu-berlin.de/~pcastine/ -----------------
Dr. Peter Castine          | I am very pleased to announce that the
4-15 Music & Technology    | 26th International Computer Music Conference
                           | will take place in Berlin in the year 2000.
                           | We look forward to seeing you here!

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 20 May 1999 09:57:28 +0200
From:    Peter Castine 
Subject: Re: tuning acoustical instruments with fft

On around 19-5-99 6:44, Jeffrey Burns said something like:

>The notes below the lower cutoff frequency are recorded and
>speeded up by a factor of 2, 4 or 8 and then checked. There are a whole
>bunch of snags: Should the attack be measured or a slice of sound a bit
>later? Should the strong overtones of low notes be filtered out, or should
>an overtone be tuned rather than the fundamental? If anyone has experience
>with these problems, please answer.

Only a little experience, so I'll try to be brief:

Piano strings are a fairly complex acoustic system, the lower string have
well over a hundred partials, each of which has an individual envelope
for *both* amplitude and frequency. There is a fair amount of activity
during the attack stage, so you may well have better success with
sampling from the steady state (I'm guessing: maybe 100 ms after the
onset?).

There is also the issue that most tuners "stretch" the octave a little at
both extremes of the piano range. This is at least textbook practice; I'm
not sure how a well-tuned piano will actually measure with a frequency
meter.

In any case, the beat-counting methods taught for piano tuning are
definitely not the same as the half-tone == 12th root of 2 law used in
most computer music. So an interesting topic.

Cheers,

Peter

----------------- http://www.prz.tu-berlin.de/~pcastine/ -----------------
Dr. Peter Castine          | I am very pleased to announce that the
4-15 Music & Technology    | 26th International Computer Music Conference
                           | will take place in Berlin in the year 2000.
                           | We look forward to seeing you here!

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 20 May 1999 09:16:17 +0100
From:    david stevens 
Subject: Re: Max programming

Oeyvind wrote:

> The Getting Started maual that comes with Max is a good place to start
> learning how Max "works". But I must admit it can be pretty "dry", not
> the most fun.

but still worth working through. what i did, once i'd figured out a
tutorial,
was to play around with modifying the actual tutorial patch to see if i'd
understood it.

when i started with max & msp, there was a specific instrument that i wanted
to
build, so most everything i was learning was in that context - which i think
helps. I started building bits & pieces once i was about half way throught
the
tutorial book, and if i got stuck on anything i posted a question here -
which
is a great way of learning different ways of doing things that wouldn't
perhaps
occur to you.

> Start real simple, by making a "thru" patch maybe (notein->noteout),
> then start adding objects in between the input and output. See what
> happens, have fun.

I even have my "work" software on a seperate computer - max/msp is my
sandpit,
where i can play & not have to worry about what anyone else thinks!

oh - and be warned that it can get as addictive as any computer game!  :-)

david

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 20 May 1999 11:14:19 +0200
From:    Roby Steinmetzer 
Subject: Re: PLUGGO - Plugmaker problems

>When I drag the P2.clct to the Plugmaker icon nothing happens.

Rebuild the desktop and it should work.
(Worked for me)

Roby Steinmetzer
Luxembourg, Europe

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 20 May 1999 10:11:58 +0100
From:    Martin Robinson 
Subject: Re: PLUGGO - Plugmaker problems

I had this problem, David Z. suggested rebuilding the desktop file, which
did the trick. Plugmaker seems to be drag and drop only (unlike
ApplicationInstaller). Come to think of it I'd been having problems that
could have been desktop file related since installing OS8.6

>>>>>>Martin Robinson :: (Ex)tractor :: &&             ________
>>><<<_sonicArts.at(middlesexUniversity.london.uk);      ______
<><><>__this.liveElectronics.interFaces.diffusion          ____

       || 

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 20 May 1999 03:09:38 -0700
From:    David Zicarelli 
Subject: Re: PLUGGO - Plugmaker problems

Eloy Anzola  writes:

>All excited as I am, I rushed and tried to create
>my own plug-in. Only to find the Plugmaker app does not
>seem to work. Even when I tried Tutorial P2, word for word.
>
>When I drag the P2.clct to the Plugmaker icon nothing happens.
>If I double click on Plugmaker, it seems to open and
>immediately quits.

Thank you for your kind remarks. The problem with Plugmaker
can typically be solved by rebuilding your desktop file,
but I have just uploaded a new update that I suggest for
anyone who has downloaded the pluggo installers. This
includes a Plugmaker that should immediately allow
dragging patches and collective files onto it. Plus,
a nasty bug was fixed that made environments with large I/O
vector sizes crash when any plug-in that used plugsend~ was
turned on. And that's not all--fixes to the Very Long Delay and
Slice'n'Dice plug-ins are included, as well as the promised
example documents for Cubase and Logic.

Get the pluggo 1.0.3 updater at

http://www.cycling74.com/products/dlpluggo.html

Note: if you've authorized pluggo, never just download the
whole thing again. Use the updaters.

David Z.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 20 May 1999 15:24:48 -0400
From:    Michael Sweet 
Subject: SMPTE Help

I'm am very confused by the way max deals with smpte and oms timers.  I'm
trying
to lock up to a videotape that has smpte on it, and I can't figure out a
useful
way to get the data back to me.

Using the outdated and undocumented tcin object I get mysterious looking
data
back, and don't really know how to convert this to frames.

I've also tried using the timein object but that only tells me where the oms
timer
is at.  How do I make the oms timer mechanism lock and chase to smpte?

The third method I'm trying now is to convert the sysex data in to frames
using
Peter Elsea's tutorial, but I can't seem to read sysex mtc directly from my
Studio
128 or my MTP.

I'm using a original G3 desktop (with a newer tech accelerator card), system
8.5.1.  Any help would be greatly appreciated, thanks.

--Michael Sweet

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 21 May 1999 07:38:30 +1000
From:    David Rodger 
Subject: ADBIO (Sensors)

Here's the URL:


David Rodger:  Audio Engineer, RLSS Lifeguard Trainer, General Curmudgeon
  mailto:auricle@alphalink.com.au   http://farben.latrobe.edu.au/motion
http://www.alphalink.com.au/~auricle  http://www.alphalink.com.au/~adzohu
=========================================================================
      Stop the bloat: no auto-HTML'd e-mail, no ms-tnef, no .vcf

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 20 May 1999 14:49:49 -0800
From:    jhno 
Subject: tapin~ freezing

>3. A very useful extension of the tapin~ object would be a kind of freeze
>function where recording would stop but reading continue.

you can do this by turning off the input signal and sending a tapout~
straight back into tapin~. it is limited, but it works.

>>There is an important point here about performance practice: I would like
to
>>be able to say at a certain point, yes, I want to turn that sound - or
>>sequence, etc. - into a sample and play it as if I had originally recorded
>>it as a sample instead of the short-lived delay buffer that it is.

you can do this too, but it is a little more conceptually difficult than
using buffer~. just think of the "frozen" feedback tapin~ line as a buffer~
that is always moving! you can then use a separate tapout~ to initiate
playback from any point in the tap line, even using audio rate changes to
the tapout~ time to produce variable speed playback, reverse, etc.

it took me a while to get used to thinking of this "moving buffer". hint:
zero speed playback (keeping still, no output) is a tapout~ where the delay
time input is increasing 1000. ms every second...

or is it decreasing? :) beware dyslexia.

here is an example of tapin~ freezing with variable-speed playback:

max v2;
#N vpatcher 151 217 514 512;
#P message 201 88 14 196617 1;
#P newex 201 65 45 196617 loadbang;
#P flonum 201 108 35 9 0 0 0 3;
#P newex 115 107 69 196617 tapout~ 2000;
#P user number~ 201 177 252 192 9 3 3 2 0. 0. 0 0. 250 0.;
#P newex 201 152 51 196617 *~ 2000.;
#P newex 201 129 44 196617 phasor~;
#P message 65 60 14 196617 0;
#P newex 65 37 45 196617 loadbang;
#P newex 65 111 27 196617 + 1;
#P toggle 65 82 15 0;
#P newex 65 135 60 196617 selector~ 2;
#P toggle 90 61 15 0;
#P newex 65 246 29 196617 dac~;
#P newex 90 84 29 196617 adc~;
#P newex 65 201 69 196617 tapout~ 2000;
#P newex 65 164 63 196617 tapin~ 2000;
#P comment 25 83 38 196617 freeze!;
#P comment 108 63 58 196617 dsp on/off;
#P comment 239 102 100 196617 speed: 0=normal \, 0.5=zero \, 1=reverse;
#P connect 11 0 12 0;
#P connect 12 0 9 0;
#P connect 9 0 10 0;
#P connect 10 0 8 0;
#P connect 8 0 3 0;
#P connect 14 0 4 0;
#P connect 3 0 4 0;
#P connect 4 0 6 0;
#P fasten 4 0 6 1 70 235 89 235;
#P connect 7 0 5 0;
#P connect 5 0 8 1;
#P connect 3 0 16 0;
#P connect 16 0 8 2;
#P connect 18 0 19 0;
#P connect 19 0 17 0;
#P connect 17 0 13 0;
#P connect 13 0 14 0;
#P connect 14 0 15 0;
#P pop;

there are some idiosyncracies involved in using this technique, but in some
situations it is just the trick.

have fun
jhno

() ))  (  ((( ))   ) ))))) ( )((()) (  ( ))   (  )    ) (   ((( )  (()( (()
delicate ear                                                 ear@sirius.com
san francisco, ca                                http://www.sirius.com/~ear

           Time Is What Keeps Everything From Happening At Once.
           Space Is What Keeps Everything From Happening to You.

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 21 May 1999 08:08:32 +1000
From:    Garth Paine 
Subject: ADB i/o was sensors

Ben wrote;

>Garth, could you explain a little more about how this unit works (with
>Max), and what kind of resolution/sampling rate it offers?

sorry, I have been away from the list recently.

The ADB i/o has a MAX object.  There are 8 i/o's.  4 analogue and 4
digital.  You can configure any of them to be inputs or outputs.  A varying
voltage (0 to 5 V) on an analogue input will provide a sliding interger
range on an output in MAX from 0-244.  You can poll the ADB i/o as ofter as
you like to get it's current state and then use the numbers as required in
MAX.  You can send times relay on commands to activate one of the output
relays which can carry 5V from an onboard supply or a greater voltage (up
to 24V from memory) to run other things - robotic bits, fans etc.

There are extras from Director and for Quicktime - this means you can take
information into Director and run external things from Director using a bit
of Lingo code, and it also means you can synchronise events with a
Quicktime movie, which makes for a fun and very simple display.

I hope that helps - sorry for the delay in answering.

check out http://www.bzzzzzz.com/BeeHive/ADB_IO/ADBIO_Intro.html

Cheers,

Garth

BTW: note that I have changed email and www addresses to
activatedspace.com.au
creativeaccess.com.au will not work after June 01, 1999

,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.
Activated Space
. Composer, Sound Designer, Installation Artist
.. Interactives Designer, Exhibition Consultant
........ph. 61 3 95720133
garth@activatedspace.com.au
http://www.activatedspace.com.au
.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 21 May 1999 08:13:37 +1000
From:    Garth Paine 
Subject: VNS

Hi Maxers,

>the best solution to this that i have found is david rokeby's  Very Nervous
>System.  far from an $85 solution, the vns is an amazing device that allows
>for one to connect a video camera for use as a sensor.  the hardware
version
>accepts a bnc signal from any camera, (low light black and white security
>camera seems to be the best setup) and outputs via a scsi cable to an
object
>in max called vns.  the object can be configured to extract many types of
>info from the vns.  my favorite being 'headtracking'  where the vns will
>track multiple 'heads' in the space and output information on each of them
>simultaneously.  a software version is also available that uses a signal
>from a video card and uses the cpu to do the processing.

I agree.

I own a VNS and use it a lot for interactive dance and interactive sound
installations.  It's great !!!!

The fact that the processing is done outboard of the CPU means you can doe
this stuff on an old powerbook.  I used it once to compose live music, run
video players, play AIFF files and run the theatres lighting rig all from a
PB 190CS.  You can divide the space inot a fine grid or draw freehand in
the video image.  You can use 2 cameras to define 3D spaces, and loads of
other things.  Check it out.

http://www.interlog.com/~drokeby/vnsII.html

Cheers,

Garth

BTW: note that I have changed email and www addresses to
activatedspace.com.au
creativeaccess.com.au will not work after June 01, 1999

,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.
Activated Space
. Composer, Sound Designer, Installation Artist
.. Interactives Designer, Exhibition Consultant
........ph. 61 3 95720133
garth@activatedspace.com.au
http://www.activatedspace.com.au
.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 20 May 1999 15:43:20 -0700
From:    William Tsun-Yuk Hsu 
Subject: Re: sensors

>iCube

The iCube system consists of a small black box that does
A/D conversion, and a variety of sensors. Sensor data
map to MIDI numbers that can be used as continuous
controller data etc. In standalone mode, it can be
used without a computer, but the mapping and scaling
are very restricted. In the other mode which I can't
remember the name of, it talks to Max through simple
input/output objects.

Sensors include resistive strips that sense bending angle
pressure, or position, light sensors that sense
brightness, proximity sensors (one near and one far), etc
More info at www.infusionsystems.com.

Bill
(not affiliated with Infusion Systems)

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 20 May 1999 18:58:07 -0400
From:    Eloy Anzola 
Subject: PLUGGO - Changing Parameters Problems

David:

Thanks for your quick response about the Plugmaker,
with the new update everything works great.

Again, thanks for this set of tools, Pluggo is awesome.
The quality of your work is extraordinary.

I still have a small problem, thought, if
more than one instance of a plug-in is
inserted, in separate audio tracks, changing
a parameter in one track will change that
parameter in all of the copies of the plug-in.

This does not happen with any other plugins,
not even from the original Pluggo set, only
with the ones built using MSP and Plugmaker.

I'm using:
MAC 8600/300 [604e]
System 8.5.1
StudioVisionPro 4.2.2
Pluggo & Plugmaker 1.0.3

a copy of the example Plugin and the MAX/MSP
patch is available at (115 k):

http://home.earthlink.net/~leaddaet/pluggo/delayunit01.sit

Any help or ideas is greatly appreciated.

Thanks so much,

Eloy
 ------
leaddaet@earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~leaddaet

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 20 May 1999 16:23:03 -0700
From:    David Zicarelli 
Subject: Re: PLUGGO - Changing Parameters Problems

Eloy Anzola  writes:

>I still have a small problem, thought, if
>more than one instance of a plug-in is
>inserted, in separate audio tracks, changing
>a parameter in one track will change that
>parameter in all of the copies of the plug-in.

The patch you uploaded uses send and receive objects. In order
for these not to be global for all instances of the same
plug-in, you need to start each symbol that names these
(or any other Max/MSP objects such as table, buffer~ etc.)
with three dashes. i.e., rather than "r delaytime" you'll
want "r ---delaytime".

A discussion of what this is about in the Runtime Issues
chapter of the plug-in development manual.

David Z.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 20 May 1999 21:58:19 -0400
From:    Eloy Anzola 
Subject: Re: PLUGGO - Changing Parameters Problems

Mr. Zicarelli was heard:

> The patch you uploaded uses send and receive objects. In order
> for these not to be global for all instances of the same
> plug-in, you need to start each symbol that names these
> (or any other Max/MSP objects such as table, buffer~ etc.)
> with three dashes. i.e., rather than "r delaytime" you'll
> want "r ---delaytime".

got it..., Thanks !!

Then Mr. Zicarelli added:

>
> A discussion of what this is about in the Runtime Issues
> chapter of the plug-in development manual.

I read it; but what can I do..., didn't occur to me
it related to my patch..., I'm a..., me a, slow
like that..., uupsie...

Thanks always for your help,
and such quick responses,

Eloy

 ------
leaddaet@earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~leaddaet

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 20 May 1999 23:18:50 -0400
From:    Le Quan Ninh 
Subject: Re: video sensors

>Date:    Wed, 19 May 1999 06:44:13 +0200
>From:    Jeffrey Burns 
>Subject: video sensors

>1. Singer's video-in external: divides the video picture into rectangular
>fields and checks brightness
>
>2. BigEye software from Steim: checks motion of silhouettes, bright spots
>or colored spots
>
>3. iCube software??
>
>4. Rokeby software/hardware??
>
>5. I've heard there are pc programs which use 2 cameras for 3-D tracking.??

Don`t forget the ichi`s o- object. I don`t have right now the URL where you
can find it but zill give you later...

Ninh

------------------------------

End of MAX Digest - 19 May 1999 to 20 May 1999 (#1999-152)
**********************************************************