Subject: MAX Digest - 13 Mar 1999 to 14 Mar 1999 (#1999-82)
Date: Mon, 15 Mar 1999 00:00:00 -0500
From: Automatic digest processor 
Reply-To: MAX - Interactive Music/Multimedia Standard Environments
     
To: Recipients of MAX digests 

There are 11 messages totalling 445 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. graphic tablets and music
  2. multiple CD-player installation (3)
  3. PowerPC can't read old format files
  4. MSP Pitch Rider Patch (2)
  5. MAX Digest - 12 Mar 1999 to 13 Mar 1999 (#1999-81)
  6. Scheduler in Audio Interrupt.
  7. David Rokeby Event in Montreal
  8. vslider/hslider question

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Date:    Sat, 13 Mar 1999 21:46:30 -0800
From:    dudas 
Subject: graphic tablets and music

I'm doing a bit of research on graphic tablets as controllers for musical
use.  If any of you have been involved in this, could you please write me a
short mail (to dudas@cnmat.berkeley.edu) describing how you use the
tablets, regardless of whether or not you use the tablet with Max.

Thanks!

-R

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 13 Mar 1999 22:29:11 -0800
From:    Simon Gatrall 
Subject: Re: multiple CD-player installation

>I've been asked to put together a multiple CD player system for a
>gallery installation, with tracks triggered by IR sensors in the various
>rooms.
>
>Our rough plan is to use 6 SCSI CD drives daisy chained, taking the
>audio directly from them and controlling them with MAX.   Has anybody
>tried something like this?   It has to run daily for ten weeks, so
>reliability is crucial.

Can I ask a stupid question?  If you aren't going to change the CDs at all
then why not just use a big hard drive?  Six CDs add up to less than 4 GB,
which is a very common size these days.  It will probably be cheaper, even
it you have to get a fast SCSI card and a soundcard.  If you need multiple
audio outs, you could use Max and MSP with soundcard(s).  CDs are much more
likely to fail than a hard drive.  If you are really concerned about
reliability, you could use a RAID setup with multiple drives (like on a
file server).  Depending on the level of RAID, one or more drives could die
and you would still be running.

Another solution would be to use a sampler that can trigger "samples" from
the hard drive.  The new Akai S5000/S6000 can do this, but they are still
buggy, so I wouldn't recommend them, but there might be some other sampler
that could handle it.

-s!mon

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 13 Mar 1999 23:47:57 -0800
From:    David Zicarelli 
Subject: Re: PowerPC can't read old format files

Roby Steinmetzer  responded to Jeff Rona:

>>On more than one occasion, I've had patches that save tables become
>>corrupted. I get an "error: PowerPC can't read old format files" message
>>followed by a "error: [name of table] read failed.
>You have to open the patches in Max 3.0 and pay attention to save them in
>the new format.
>Then you should be able to reopen them in 3.5.x.

If it were only so easy.

Those table files are history. Max corrupted them because
it labelled them as "old format" and then saved them in
a different format.

This bug could also happen with the coll object.

This bug was fixed in 3.5.9-8, but there's no easy way to get
back the table data. Sorry about that.

David Z.

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 14 Mar 1999 17:12:43 +0100
From:    Peter Castine 
Subject: Re: multiple CD-player installation

On around 13-3-99 19:13, Eamonn Doyle said something like:

>Our rough plan is to use 6 SCSI CD drives daisy chained, taking the
>audio directly from them and controlling them with MAX.   Has anybody
>tried something like this?   It has to run daily for ten weeks, so
>reliability is crucial.

I did something like this back in 1990. Worked fine. I only had 4 CD ROM
drives back then, but otherwise same deal.

Simon Gatrall, gatrall@SLIP.NET commented:
>Can I ask a stupid question?  If you aren't going to change the CDs at all
>then why not just use a big hard drive?  Six CDs add up to less than 4 GB,
>which is a very common size these days.

Well, there may be a couple of reasons to use CDs. Like your material may
already be on CD (this was my situation). If you ask around, people will
_give_ you old CD-ROM drives for free. A single-speed CD-ROM will be
sufficient for the above exercise (unless you're using a really
first-class amplification system, where you may have difficulties with
SCSI noise crossing over to the audio outs, which means you'd need to get
top-class CD players... of course, if you've got a *really*
hyper-first-class amplification system, you probably wouldn't deign to
use CDs anyway).

Also, you may find that even a fast hard drive might have difficulty with
disk access if you try to play back six separate sound files at the same
time. I don't know about this for a fact, but I would be interested if
someone has had experience trying this trick (and what equipment was
needed to get it running).

CDs are sort of nice because Max can say "play" without having to handle
the acual D/A, disk buffering, or any other MSP stuff. Note that my
multi-CD project ran on a Mac IIfx.

I think there can be compelling arguments to go either way. Depends upon
your needs.

Cheers,

Peter

----------------- http://www.prz.tu-berlin.de/~pcastine/ -----------------
Dr. Peter Castine          | I am very pleased to announce that the
4-15 Music & Technology    | 26th International Computer Music Conference
                           | will take place in Berlin in the year 2000.
                           | We look forward to seeing you here!

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 14 Mar 1999 12:33:49 +0200
From:    Titus Abbott 
Subject: MSP Pitch Rider Patch

Does anyone know where I might find a patch which will act as a pitch
rider.  I am looking to trigger midi with a soprano saxophone.

Titus

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 14 Mar 1999 21:09:30 +0100
From:    Roby Steinmetzer 
Subject: Re: MSP Pitch Rider Patch

>Does anyone know where I might find a patch which will act as a pitch
>rider.  I am looking to trigger midi with a soprano saxophone.
>
>Titus

pitch following can be done with the fiddle~ external by Miller Puckette:
http://www-crca.ucsd.edu/~tapel/fiddle1.01.sit.hqx
Take a look at the help file.

Roby Steinmetzer
Luxembourg, Europe

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 14 Mar 1999 13:28:58 -0800
From:    Simon Gatrall 
Subject: Re: multiple CD-player installation

>Simon Gatrall, gatrall@SLIP.NET commented:
>>Can I ask a stupid question?  If you aren't going to change the CDs at all
>>then why not just use a big hard drive?  Six CDs add up to less than 4 GB,
>>which is a very common size these days.
>
>Well, there may be a couple of reasons to use CDs. Like your material may
>already be on CD (this was my situation). If you ask around, people will
>_give_ you old CD-ROM drives for free. A single-speed CD-ROM will be
>sufficient for the above exercise (unless you're using a really
>first-class amplification system, where you may have difficulties with
>SCSI noise crossing over to the audio outs, which means you'd need to get
>top-class CD players... of course, if you've got a *really*
>hyper-first-class amplification system, you probably wouldn't deign to
>use CDs anyway).

If your material is on CD already, it will take all of about 20 minutes to
suck the audio off of the CD.  Just open up Movieplayer and choose
"import..." from the File menu.  If you have a really fast CD-ROM drive (24
or 32X), it might only take a few minutes.

>Also, you may find that even a fast hard drive might have difficulty with
>disk access if you try to play back six separate sound files at the same
>time. I don't know about this for a fact, but I would be interested if
>someone has had experience trying this trick (and what equipment was
>needed to get it running).

People do 32+ tracks all the time with ProTools or Studio Vision.  Granted,
you need a decent Mac and hard drive.  Unless you only have a 68K Mac or an
early PPC then it shouldn't be a problem to do 6 simultanious tracks.

>CDs are sort of nice because Max can say "play" without having to handle
>the acual D/A, disk buffering, or any other MSP stuff. Note that my
>multi-CD project ran on a Mac IIfx.

Sure if you can only afford a machine that you'd have to pay someone to
cart away these days then it makes more sense.  Seriously, used PPC
machines are so cheap that unless this project needs to be done for free I
can't imagine why you'd want to restrict yourself like this.  (A quick net
search reveals that you can get a IIci for $99 or a 7600/120 for $599)

-s!mon

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 15 Mar 1999 00:08:31 +0000
From:    Jean Favory 
Subject: Re: MAX Digest - 12 Mar 1999 to 13 Mar 1999 (#1999-81)

Eamonn Doyle a ˇcrit :

> I've been asked to put together a multiple CD player system for a
> gallery installation, with tracks triggered by IR sensors in the various
> rooms.
>
> Our rough plan is to use 6 SCSI CD drives daisy chained, taking the
> audio directly from them and controlling them with MAX.   Has anybody
> tried something like this?   It has to run daily for ten weeks, so
> reliability is crucial.
>
> All advice and suggestions appreciated!

I used 6 SCSI CD drives for an installation during 8 days and I had no
problem.
All the CD drives were from Apple (because of the cd object).
If you use sames CD in different drives only one of them will be mounted. To
use
CDs with identical contents they must have a different TOC (to do that you
can
add blank tracks at the end of the CDs to make them different).

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 14 Mar 1999 18:12:17 -0800
From:    Alex Stahl 
Subject: Re: Scheduler in Audio Interrupt.

>>Have you checked Scheduler in Audio Interrupt in the dsp menu? If it isn't
>>checked the max scheduler ("control rate") is not necessarily synchronized
>>to the audio clock.

"Keith A.McMillen" :
>This option only available when using Sound Manager, not with external
card=
s.

It is available on my system while using a 2408, perhaps it wasn't before
and one of the recent updates to the MOTU driver,the MSP ASIO Audiodriver,
MSP itself, or Max enabled it. I can hear the difference.

-Alex Stahl

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 14 Mar 1999 22:44:28 -0500
From:    Li Tang-Chun 
Subject: David Rokeby Event in Montreal

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE......

We are pleased to announce that from March 25 to 28 1999, composer/artist
David Rokeby will be coming to Montreal as a guest of G.E.M.S. (Group of
the Electronic Music Studio), as part of the McGill Faculty of Music
"Composer in Residence" program through the generous assistance of the
Socan Foundation.

David Rokeby is an interactive sound and video installation artist based
in Toronto, Canada. He has been creating interactive installations since
1982. He has focused on interactive pieces that directly engage the human
body, or that involve artificial perception systems. His work has been
performed / exhibited in shows across Canada, the United States, Europe
and Japan, including the Venice Biennale in 1986, Ars Electronica (Linz
Austria) in 1991, the Mediale (Hamburg Germany) in 1993, Press Enter
(Toronto Canada), and the Kwangju Biennale (Korea) in 1995. He was awarded
the first Petro-Canada Award for Media Arts in 1988 and the Prix Ars
Electronica Award of Distinction for Interactive Art (Austria) in 1991.

One of his interactive systems, the Very Nervous System, is being used to
enable a paralyzed woman to speak and write. It is also currently being
used by composers, video artists, and medical facilities in many parts of
the world.

ITINERARY:

(All events take place at McGill's Faculty of Music, 555 Sherbrooke St.
West, unless otherwise noted)

MONDAY MARCH 22
4:30 - 6:30pm, Clara Lichtenstein Recital Hall

"Transforming mirrors: Continuous Real-time interaction for performance
and installation." - A PRESENTATION AND ROUNDTABLE DISCUSSION featuring
David Rokeby

Invited Panelists: Bruce Pennycook, Louis Dufort, Jean Piche,
Alex Burton, Alain Thibault, Marc Coroux

Admission is free.

TUESDAY, MARCH 23
8:00 pm, Pollack Hall

GEMS CONCERT featuring guest artist David Rokeby.

For a detailed concert schedule, consult:
www.music.mcgill.ca/~gems/rokeby/docs/concert.html

Admission $5.

WEDNESDAY, MARCH 24
18h - 19:30h, l'universite de Montreal, locale B-399

"Transforming mirrors: Continuous Real-time interaction for performance
and installation."
LECTURE by David Rokeby  on technology and its application to his music.

THURSDAY, MARCH 25
10:00 am - 3:30 pm, Pollack Hall East Lounge

"Measure"
An INSTALLATION of David Rokeby's Very nervous System.

4:00pm-6:30pm, Clara Lichtenstein Recital Hall
"Tracking Gestures Live"
A WORKSHOP in live interactive audiovisual systems, conducted by David
Rokeby.

For any OTHER INFORMATION, please point your web browser to:
www.music.mcgill.ca/~gems/rokeby/docs/main.html

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 14 Mar 1999 20:38:35 -0800
From:    Kim Cascone 
Subject: vslider/hslider question

hello,
I've been working on a few simple patches trying to use the counter as a
'latch'...I constructed a patch in v3.5.8 which seemed to be the solution I
was looking for...I then opened the same patch (included below) in v3.5.9
and the behavior was different than I had expected...I did some
troubleshooting and found that the hslider/vslider objects have lost the
ability to accept a 'bang' on its inlet in order to send the sliders
current value to its output...I read the 3.5.9 release notes and didn't
come across any info about changes in these objects (maybe I missed
it?)...please open the patch below in 3.5.8 and observe the behavior on the
two little test patches I constructed and then open the patch in 3.5.9 and
observe the behavior there...I included some comments in the patch so you
can recreate the behavior I was experiencing...
can anybody clue me in to what changes were made to the vslider and hslider
objects and why? I kinda like being able to pound values out of a slider
(and this *does* still work with the slider object)...
thanks in advance!
KIM

+++++++++++++++++++++x patch below x+++++++++++++++++++++++++++

max v2;
#N vpatcher 22 45 557 565;
#P number 333 490 35 9 0 0 0 3;
#P button 333 425 15 0;
#P user hslider 333 456 18 128 128 1 0 0;
#P user uslider 300 125 18 128 128 1 0 0;
#P number 290 302 35 9 0 0 0 3;
#P user multiSlider 17 286 194 134 1. 127. 1 3193 47;
#P number 145 246 35 9 0 0 0 3;
#P newex 145 206 66 196617 counter;
#P toggle 145 82 15 0;
#P newex 145 101 50 196617 metro 50;
#P comment 207 96 100 196617 the metro bangs the values in the slider...;
#P comment 196 179 104 196617 ... out into the 'reset' inlet of the counter;
#P comment 34 128 100 196617 the counter object acts as a latch in that the
counter clocks through the value on the reset pin every 50 mSec;
#P comment 190 11 324 196632 vslider test {test in v3.5.8 & v3.5.9};
#P comment 134 67 45 196618 on / off;
#P comment 353 74 121 196617 test $1 ====== problem: open this patch in
3.5.8 it behaves as follows: the slider is receiving a bang on its input
which sends the value on the slider to the counter 'reset' inlet... the
effect is that of a 'latch' where a value is latched and then clocked
through to its output... ++++++++++++++++ open this patch in 3.5.9 and the
behavior of the vslider is different: the slider doesn't respond to a bang
on its input inlet note: this behavior is the same for both hslider and
hslider;
#P comment 354 361 134 196617 simpler test: ========== - set this slider to
any value - set the number box to zero - hit the bang button - look at
result in v3.5.8 and compare to v3.5.9;
#P connect 8 0 7 0;
#P connect 15 0 14 0;
#P connect 13 0 9 2;
#P connect 13 0 12 0;
#P connect 9 0 11 0;
#P connect 9 0 10 0;
#P connect 7 0 9 0;
#P connect 7 0 13 0;
#P connect 14 0 16 0;
#P pop;

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

__________________________
sound.designer...composer

kim@anechoicmedia.com
http://www.anechoicmedia.com

Out Now:
                blueCube( ) (Rastermusic)
                nb2e_Vortex.aiff (Mille Plateaux)
                vortexShedding (Caipirinha Music)

"the medium is no longer the message, the tool has become the message"

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End of MAX Digest - 13 Mar 1999 to 14 Mar 1999 (#1999-82)
*********************************************************