Subject: MAX Digest - 22 Feb 1999 to 23 Feb 1999 (#1999-63)
Date: Wed, 24 Feb 1999 00:00:00 -0500
From: Automatic digest processor 
Reply-To: MAX - Interactive Music/Multimedia Standard Environments
     
To: Recipients of MAX digests 

There are 14 messages totalling 441 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Max layer cake
  2. Ethernet Input (3)
  3. message variables with comma?
  4. message variables with comma???? (2)
  5. Patch Cords
  6. Deglitched Groove~ (2)
  7. Joining In
  8. grab causing infinite loops/stack overflow (2)
  9. Patchcords

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 22 Feb 1999 21:56:15 -0800
From:    dudas 
Subject: Max layer cake

Just to add to everyone's misunderstanding of the layer concept, I will add
my own misunderstanding to the list.

I view the whole layer thing as a graphic convenience - like putting
interface objects or graphical nicities like fpic in a separate layer that
could be hidden revealing the works of the patch underneath, that way you
wouldn't have to constantly move graphical objects around to work on the
patch. Maybe you could even have a few layers of interface and switch
between them as necessary. This would be kind of like working with the
"layers" of images in Photoshop.

Right now, I sometimes find myself eternally using "bring to front" / "send
to back"... however, if all those things were in some common space....

x dudas

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 23 Feb 1999 00:50:48 -0500
From:    Nathan Wolek 
Subject: Ethernet Input

Has anyone out there developed an object (or workaround) that would
allow MAX to read data coming in through the ethernet card?  I am aware
of CNMAT's OpenSoundControl but this is not what I am looking for.  I
want a way to read in the raw data coming in through the ethernet
connection for manipulation within MAX.  If anyone out there has an
answer, please let me know.

Nathan Wolek
wolek@stetson.edu

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 23 Feb 1999 18:39:45 +1100
From:    Garth Paine 
Subject: Re: Ethernet Input

I would be really interested in ethernet data input to.

Cheers,

Garth

See information about my new immersive interactive sound installations
http://creativeaccess.com.au/~garth/

,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.
. Composer, Sound Designer
.. Interactives Designer
... Interactive Installation Artist
.... Exhibition Consultant
.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 23 Feb 1999 08:56:15 +0100
From:    daniel landau 
Subject: message variables with comma?

Maybe what you're missing is that a message with numbers followed
by a comma is like sending messages one after another - Stephen actually
mentioned that.  So if you are looking for a 'one bang' like action to
trigger
the play~ object you can try this patch.

d.

max v2;
#N vpatcher 50 40 515 412;
#P number 142 136 35 9 0 0 0 3;
#P newex 125 160 27 196617 int;
#P newex 95 73 40 196617 t b b b;
#P button 95 27 15 0;
#P newex 178 160 27 196617 int;
#P number 195 136 35 9 0 0 0 3;
#P newex 149 260 30 196617 print;
#P newex 186 199 28 196617 pack;
#P number 233 136 35 9 0 0 0 3;
#P newex 216 160 27 196617 int;
#P connect 0 0 2 1;
#P connect 1 0 0 1;
#P connect 2 0 3 0;
#P connect 5 0 2 0;
#P connect 4 0 5 1;
#P connect 6 0 7 0;
#P connect 7 2 8 0;
#P fasten 7 0 5 0 100 117 183 117;
#P fasten 7 1 0 0 115 107 221 107;
#P connect 9 0 8 1;
#P connect 8 0 3 0;
#P pop;

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 23 Feb 1999 10:33:46 +0000
From:    david stevens 
Subject: Re: message variables with comma????

Stephen Kay wrote:

>
> I can't seem to duplicate your problem.  In other words, if I hook up
> a 3 number [pack] to a message box with [$1, $2 $3], and then run
> the output to line~, there are no error messages.
>

and neither can i today! either i was doing something stupid yesterday (not
impossible!), or there was some kind of glitch which restarting has fixed.
strange.

i've also started getting an error message when i load the patch which says
-

error:PowerPc version cannot read old format files

does this mean that a 68k only object has crept in somewhere, or is it to do
with tables/colls, or does it have another meaning? the reason i ask this is
that i can't remember that i added anything new around the time this
messsage
started showing up. is there a way fo tracing down the offending item?

thanks again

david

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 23 Feb 1999 23:02:56 +1100
From:    Garth Paine 
Subject: Patch Cords

Hi All,

Further to the patch cord discussion that has been going on; I use
segmented patch cords all the time (being anally retentive) I like to have
a clean and tydie patch, where ever signal flow is easilly deciferable.  I
love the Shift function for placing a number of patch cords from one object
outlet, but get frustrated having to click all the points the patchcord
changes direction when wiring up a whole lot of objects in a row.  I would
like to see a function where segmented patchcords would follow the line of
the last patchcord until it proceeded past the last object - this would
made wiring up a long line of Select, or Bang, or Outlet objects or
similar, much much easier

Cheers,

Garth

See information about my new immersive interactive sound installations
http://creativeaccess.com.au/~garth/

,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.
. Composer, Sound Designer
.. Interactives Designer
... Interactive Installation Artist
.... Exhibition Consultant
.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 23 Feb 1999 11:52:01 -0500
From:    Eric Singer 
Subject: Re: Ethernet Input

An ethernet card is a network card, so what you need is a way to read data
from a network.  See both the 'telnet' and 'udp' objects - which support 2
different network i/o protocols.  I've used both successfully.

See also Stichting Rainstick's home page
http://valley.interact.nl/AV/ORG/Rainst/ .  They have their own version of
Max networking and TCP objects.

Eric

At 12:50 AM -0500 2/23/99, Nathan Wolek wrote:
>Has anyone out there developed an object (or workaround) that would
>allow MAX to read data coming in through the ethernet card?  I am aware
>of CNMAT's OpenSoundControl but this is not what I am looking for.  I
>want a way to read in the raw data coming in through the ethernet
>connection for manipulation within MAX.  If anyone out there has an
>answer, please let me know.
>
>Nathan Wolek
>wolek@stetson.edu

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 23 Feb 1999 09:35:56 -0800
From:    "Keith A.McMillen" 
Subject: Deglitched Groove~

Has anyone written a deglitcher for the groove~ object to reduce the splice
point while looping? I'm thinking of some little ramping mute driven by
snapshot~. Of course the placement will have to be justified by the length,
speed and direction of groove~ playback

Any suggestions? Anyone interested if I write one?

Keith McMillen

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 23 Feb 1999 10:00:53 -0800
From:    Jeff Rona 
Subject: Joining In

I am joining the MAX list for the first time and wanted to say hello. I'm
a composer living in Los Angeles using MAX and MSP.

 While I've gotten deep into both, I certainly run into problems and
frustrations. I look forward to participating in the group. Also, if
anyone is a serious MSP guru in LA, please contact me.

Jeff Rona

:--------------------:
      Jeff Rona
:--------------------:
 jrona@earthlink.net
:--------------------:
    BE, HEAR, NOW
:--------------------:

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 23 Feb 1999 12:47:08 -0800
From:    Alex Stahl 
Subject: Re: Deglitched Groove~

>Has anyone written a deglitcher for the groove~ object to reduce the splice
>point while looping? I'm thinking of some little ramping mute driven by
>snapshot~. Of course the placement will have to be justified by the length,
>speed and direction of groove~ playback
>
>Any suggestions? Anyone interested if I write one?

Crossfades can be nice, and hard to achieve with groove~. Instead, you
might consider something like a pair of line~/play~ combinations, each with
the appropriate "little ramping mute" at their beginning and end. Find a
way to generate a bang when the fade-out starts, and cross-connect the two
players so that the "release" of one triggers the "attack" of the other. I
have an example of this that sounds pretty good, but with all this concern
about patchcord etiquette I'm afraid that if I share it I'll be sent to bed
without dinner.

-Alex Stahl

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 23 Feb 1999 16:06:11 +0000
From:    Trond Lossius 
Subject: grab causing infinite loops/stack overflow

I've a problem with grab causing infinite loops/stack overflow, and I
don't understand why:

To me it seems like a grab "grabbing" object X keeps monitoring X after
having grabbed to see if the content of X is changed by what's output
from left outlet of grab. If so and the changed value is about to be
output from X, grab intersects and grab the new content of X. That way
the content of X is changed once again, hence grabbed again, etc...). Is
it something wrong, or am I missing the obvious?

If someone could take a look at the enclosed patch, I'd be very
grateful.

Trond L.

max v2;
#N vpatcher 78 153 339 422;
#P newex 123 138 39 196617 print +;
#P message 175 61 14 196617 0;
#P newex 80 138 27 196617 t b i;
#P button 92 33 15 0;
#P newex 63 194 35 196617 print i;
#P newex 80 114 27 196617 + 1;
#P newex 63 169 27 196617 i;
#P newex 92 82 28 196617 grab;
#P connect 5 0 1 0;
#P fasten 0 1 1 0 115 104 68 104;
#P connect 1 0 3 0;
#P connect 0 0 2 0;
#P connect 2 0 5 0;
#P fasten 6 0 1 1 180 167 85 167;
#P connect 5 1 1 1;
#P connect 4 0 0 0;
#P fasten 2 0 7 0 85 135 128 135;
#P fasten 4 0 6 0 97 53 180 53;
#P pop;

PS: The strange part is that if the patch chord from the bang outlet of
trigger to the int object is removed, the problem goes away.

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 23 Feb 1999 19:05:12 -0500
From:    Jeff Mann 
Subject: Re: Patchcords

Lawrence Casserley wrote:
>... I upgraded from 2.5.2 to 3.5.8 in order to run msp as
> part of my migration from ispw. I have a funny collection of old and
> upgrade manuals with quite a few holes in the documentation - although I
> notice these ones lay overlooked in the original manual!

Another undocumented change (probably already mentioned) - the counter
object behaves differently in 3.5; the "carry flag" now sends a 1 after
the counter wraps around, not when it hits the maximum count; and it
never sends out a zero. So all my loops go one too many times now.
Better to use a "select (max. count)" instead if you need to be
compatible with 3.0 or older.

I also upgraded a copy of an old 2.5 Max to 3.5.8 for MSP. Even though
the product I ordered from their web site specifically said "upgrade
from version 2.x to 3.5", Opcode only sent the "3.5 Addendum" manual
with it. I had to e-mail them and get them to send the Max Reference
(3.0) and Max Getting Started (3.0) manuals. Do you have these? It took
three e-mails and two separate deliveries before they realised there was
any such thing as a "Max Reference Manual". However, they didn't charge
me anything for them. I think these may be the only printed manuals
available, i.e. if you buy 3.5.x outright, that's what you'll get - not
sure.

cu later 
mailto:jefman@utcc.utoronto.ca ||   http://www.interlog.com/~jefman
Visit the Art & Robotics Group site: http://www.interaccess.org/arg

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 23 Feb 1999 21:36:14 -0500
From:    Stephen Kay 
Subject: grab causing infinite loops/stack overflow

Trond Lossius said:

>I've a problem with grab causing infinite loops/stack overflow, and I
>don't understand why:

>To me it seems like a grab "grabbing" object X keeps monitoring X after
>having grabbed to see if the content of X is changed by what's output
>from left outlet of grab. If so and the changed value is about to be
>output from X, grab intersects and grab the new content of X. That way
>the content of X is changed once again, hence grabbed again, etc...). Is=

>it something wrong, or am I missing the obvious?

This is just one of those (rather inexplicable) cases of reenetrancy
in Max, or "what happens when stuff is going in one inlet and =

simultaneous stuff is happening at other inlets..."  Often these
cases seem to follow no logic, but can be fixed by the insertion of
a del 0 or pipe 0 somewhere in the chain to "break up" the simultaneous
aspects.

You can "fix" this example by putting a [pipe 0] on the left
outlet of the grab (the result, which goes into the [+] object).

A good, basic rule is "when getting a stack overflow (and having
first ruled out simple poor programming of an infinite loop
somewhere), a reentrancy problem probably exists somewhere.
Try adding a del 0 or pipe 0 at various places which seem logical
until it goes away, and you will have at least found the section
of the patcher that needs further examination."

Stephen Kay
---------------------- The MegaMAX Collection ----------------------
 Over 30 Max objects for the creation of more professional looking, =

         feeling, and functioning patchers and applications.
           http://www.musikinetix.com/MegaMax/MegaMax.html
------------------------ Free Max objects! -------------------------
       http://www.musikinetix.com/MaxCorner/PublicDomain.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 23 Feb 1999 21:36:18 -0500
From:    Stephen Kay 
Subject: Re: message variables with comma????

>i've also started getting an error message when i load the patch which
says -

>error:PowerPc version cannot read old format files

AFAIK, this is only a message you are supposed to get when trying
to read ancient Max 2.2 binary files into the latest PPC version.

I forget exactly (maybe someone else will chime in) but if you are
loading a main patcher and get this message, and the patcher still
loads, it could be that one of your coll files has become corrupted.
I don't know how you would get this message if everything you're
doing has been done with Max 3.5.9...

Stephen Kay

------------------------------

End of MAX Digest - 22 Feb 1999 to 23 Feb 1999 (#1999-63)
*********************************************************