Subject: MAX Digest - 18 Feb 1999 (#1999-58)
Date: Fri, 19 Feb 1999 00:00:04 -0500
From: Automatic digest processor 
Reply-To: MAX - Interactive Music/Multimedia Standard Environments
To: Recipients of MAX digests 

There are 12 messages totalling 389 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. locality
  2. Fwd: Software to get MIDI into Director (MacOS)
  3. Q: usb | serial port (2)
  4. Patchcord confusion
  5. Interfaces
  6. MAX Digest - 17 Feb 1999 to 18 Feb 1999 - Special issue (#1999-57)
  7. heureka !
  8. Interface Improvements
  9. patch cords
 10. you can call me cole... (was re: Louis and Ella...)
 11. MAX list CD costs and OT: Palindromes


Date:    Thu, 18 Feb 1999 10:53:42 -0800
From:    David Zicarelli 
Subject: locality

When looking for local send and receive, don't forget the "pv" object.
pv stands for "private value" and implements locality that
extends to subpatchers. The source code for pv is available
for anyone who would like to write ps and pr. Since no one has
done this since 1993 or whenever I first wrote pv, I guess I will do
it for the next version of Max and you'll have to pay for it.

All the comments about patch cord selection are very interesting
and helpful. The fact that Peter has developed so many rules
about dealing with the Max interface really hits home that
it could be friendlier for the undisciplined. Basically what
everyone is saying is, "I slapped something together quickly,
now help me clean up my room." It's not an unreasonable request,
but as the parent of a three-year-old, I recognize the behavior

David Z.


Date:    Fri, 19 Feb 1999 06:05:27 +1000
From:    David Rodger 
Subject: Fwd: Software to get MIDI into Director (MacOS)

This recently appeared on another list, from Mark Coniglio (Troika Ranch).
Thought it might be of interest given recent threads...

>I have just uploaded my little XFCN that allow the MacOS version of
>Director to use Midi. It has been tried with Director 6, but I have no idea
>if it will work with the latest version. It requires Apple MidiManger to
>work -- sorry, no OMS yet.
>I just uploaded the file, so I don't even have a web page link yet. But the
>file is at
>Note that the MIME types for .hqx files are not working on right
>now -- your browser may not automatically see this as a .hqx file. That is
>being worked on as we speak.
>There is a little read me file with simple instructions and an example file
>included with the XFCN.


Date:    Thu, 18 Feb 1999 14:10:39 -0500
From:    "j. arakaki" 
Subject: Q: usb | serial port

Hi -

Awhile back I written (for a friend) a max patch that used the serial
object to poll data coming from a serial device (an arcade steering
This patch is part of an art installation which is now travelling  and the
gallery it is now exhibiting in only has the new G3's -- the ones with usb

I haven't actually worked on the new G3's -- is it possible to get an usb to
serial adapter....and will Max (i.e. the serial object) recognize the port?
Or what about the Keyspan serial card -- will it work with Max on the G3?

Many many thanks,

Janice Arakaki


Date:    Thu, 18 Feb 1999 14:11:52 EST
From:    JohnBrit@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Patchcord confusion

In a message dated 2/17/99 21:01:23, you wrote:

>I have the same problem with interfaces.  But because I use use segmented
>patch cords, my patchers tend to look like some kind of telephone routing
>matrix with bundles of cables side by side and on top of each other.  What
>would be nice would be to "dim" all cords except the ones connected to
>selected objects.  When a cord is dimmed, it could be seen (dimly) but
>not selected.  This would make finding, changing or arranging the patch
>cords connected to specific objects much easier.  It would be something
>like the MAX equivalent of labeling cables so you can tell where each
>and ends.
>Nick Longo

My patchers suffer from the same "telephone routing matrix" syndrome as I
can't abide diagonal patchcords. (On this point, when segemented patchcords
from bottom to top, it would nice if align would do this for you. Sometimes
these patchcords turn into a "Z" shape without warning and can only be
and replaced).
How about something like - Control click on an inlet or outlet and any
patchcords connected would become hilited.
I did consider the idea of a "Termination" object with one argument - the
number of cores. Two Termination objects would be connected together with a
"multicore" patchcord. Adding another core would just require changing the
argument at each end. Perhaps a command click on the object would open a
like list which could contain info about about specific connections, what
their purpose was etc. This would result in something more like a hardware
schematic where data and address busses are represented by one broad wire
instead of 16 or 32 individual ones.


Date:    Fri, 19 Feb 1999 06:34:08 +1000
From:    David Rodger 
Subject: Re: Interfaces

>A hand tool.  Like photoshop, spacebar triggers a hand that
>allows the user to interactively PAN a patcher.  Especially usefull on
>laptops, like my trusty MAX workhorse: PB170

From:    Johnny DeKam 
>5) Contextual Menus!  they are built into the OS now, why not be able to
>access functions like 'get info' , 'help' , 'color' , 'edit/lock patch' ,
>'new objects' etc.

Contextual menus won't run on your trusty ol' 170!

David Rodger ------------------------
Motion Capture on Music  -------
Ghanaian Music and Dance -------
I've noticed that people who complain about their imaginations
being stifled or  straightjacketed by some convention or other
are generally easily stifled, mainly due to the fact that they
don't have a lot of imagination to begin with... -- Mark Simon


Date:    Thu, 18 Feb 1999 20:53:52 +0100
From:    Lars Brondum 
Subject: Re: MAX Digest - 17 Feb 1999 to 18 Feb 1999 - Special issue

>Date:    Wed, 17 Feb 1999 23:16:40 -0800
>From:    David Zicarelli 
>Subject: Re: dimming/hiliting patch cords
>I like the dimming of patch cords idea. I might want to implement
>it where if you move the mouse over an object, its connections
>are highlighted in some way, or even if you move over a patch
>cord, it might show you the objects to which the cord is
>connected. Requiring that you select the object might cause
>you to move it inadvertantly.
>However, I also think some simple layer feature is a necessity.
>David Z.
Dimming off patch cords is a great idea. But how about a 3d environment
where depth is a possibility as well (like in Macromedias "Extreme 3D").
That way the patcher can be rotated in all directions. I'd be tricky though
to decide on order of events (like it is now - from bottom-up; left->right).

Lars Brondum


Date:    Thu, 18 Feb 1999 21:27:14 +0100
From:    Robert Henke 
Subject: heureka !

Now i see clear !!!
Mathius Shadow-Sky ist the new alias of antiorp. This kind of 100%
humorless postings are his revange !!! He will continue posting
"controversies" until everyone whishes to see ascii art again....or at
least one single obsure patcher....



Date:    Thu, 18 Feb 1999 12:40:04 -0800
From:    Alex Stahl 
Subject: Re: Q: usb | serial port

I have a Keyspan card and a new G3 but haven't had the time to try them
together yet.
I will over the weekend. I did see a Keyspan card working in a new G3 at
Macworld but it wasn't running Max.

If I remember correctly, the serial object was updated several years ago to
any serial ports that have Comm Toolbox drivers. This suggests there's a
decent chance the Keyspan card and existing USB-serial converters will work.

(note, none of this pertains to MIDI interfaces, at least not quite yet.
Real Soon Now...)

-Alex Stahl

>Hi -
>Awhile back I written (for a friend) a max patch that used the serial
>object to poll data coming from a serial device (an arcade steering
>This patch is part of an art installation which is now travelling  and the
>gallery it is now exhibiting in only has the new G3's -- the ones with usb
>I haven't actually worked on the new G3's -- is it possible to get an usb
>serial adapter....and will Max (i.e. the serial object) recognize the port?
>Or what about the Keyspan serial card -- will it work with Max on the G3?
>Many many thanks,
>Janice Arakaki


Date:    Thu, 18 Feb 1999 12:39:38 -0800
From:    Carl Stone 
Subject: Interface Improvements

I would like to second Johnny's suggestion about a grid/snap-to-grid
feature. I have been meaning to suggest this as well.

My other  suggestion for improvement, which I haven't yet seen addressed on
this list, is for how Max handles seach paths. Current the search path
interface is quite clumsy. I do not enjoy having to manually type in the
paths and wonder if there could be a button that brings up a standard open
dialog box, allowing one to select a folder and automatically create a

Another problem for me is that I often put larger files (audio, QT etc) on
removable media and then have to set a path. Next time I attempt to start
the program, if the media is not present Max will not open. Hence I must
either find the requested disk (which may not even be necessary for my
programming task at hand) or remove the Max Pref file and start over. What
I would really like is to be able to do is for example have an "Audio"
folder permanently in the search path and then drop aliases of faraway
files in it as needed. Currently this does not seem to work.

Other people have mentioned the difficulty in selecting objects when they
are buried under numerous patch cords. This has deviled me as well. How
about some kind of click-with-modifier-key or other scheme that would only
select objects and not patch cords?


Today's Palindrome: Go hang a salami. I'm a lasagna hog.

C  -----------------------------------------------------
A  INTERNET:      WELL: cstone
L  -----------------------------------------------------
 STONE      4104 24th Street #410
                      San Francisco CA 94114 USA


Date:    Thu, 18 Feb 1999 14:12:27 -0700
From:    Kevin Walker 
Subject: patch cords

I've been somewhat surprised at how much enthusiasm there is for a
regemented look in max matches.  I prefer a more organic appearance, my
self.  In fact, I mainly use segmented patch cords to add extra,
non-functional complexity to the patch (random squiggles and loops).
Having more than five segments to play with would provide for greater
artistic freedom in this regard.  (In order to preempt some of the more
predictable responses:  Yes, I realize that order can be a virtue in very
complicated patches.)


Date:    Thu, 18 Feb 1999 23:41:00 +0200
From:    Tom Mays 
Subject: you can call me cole... (was re: Louis and Ella...)

Dr. Xoaz and friends,

>For instance, you might get into some trouble when
>referring to multiple instances of the rudimentary midi sequence object...
>is it seek or seck?

I once had an abstraction I called "easyseq" (pronounced "easyseck", of
whos plurel made matters worse.

By the way, "coll" is pronounced "cole" because "call" is confusing.
seq is pronouned "seck" because "seek" is confusing (the plural of seck
        not confusing, but, uh...). By the way, the plurel of "seek" sounds
        "six" with a french accent. And that's *really* confusing.
iter is pronounced with a short "i" because it sounds dumb with a long "i".

So much for "individual expression" as it relates to maxian nomenclature!

>Sadly, the anglo- languages/dialects/accents do
>not optimally offer consistant pronunciation from region to region

Oh, I thought we were just lazy.

tm (akazo)


Date:    Thu, 18 Feb 1999 17:27:40 -0500
From:    Christopher Murtagh 
Subject: MAX list CD costs and OT: Palindromes

Greetings Maxers,

 Sorry for the delays in getting the CD price quotes/financing up, I just
got a reliable quote recently. I've had a good number of submissions and a
really wide range of material. Looks like it will be a great CD! For those
that are curious:

For 500 CDs which includes:
- Glass master
- 500 Paper sleeves with window and insertion
- 2 colour printing on CD

Cost (not including art preparation) $845 CDN (+taxes of about 15%)

For 1000 CDs (including same as above)

Cost (again not including art) $1290 CND (+ taxes)

I have had a good chunk of $$ donated, and I forsee a bit more, so it
looks like if I do a run of 500, the CD will be free or at least cost less
than the postage. This is why I need to know who is interested in a CD (or

If anyone knows of a place where I can get a better deal, please let me
know. This is the best I found so far, with a couple more places yet to

All these details should be posted on my www site soon, including donation
amounts, sorry again for the delays.


On Thu, 18 Feb 1999, Carl Stone wrote:
> Today's Palindrome: Go hang a salami. I'm a lasagna hog.

 I love these, where are you getting them?

Cheers & happy MAXin',



End of MAX Digest - 18 Feb 1999 (#1999-58)