Subject: MAX Digest - 13 Feb 1999 to 14 Feb 1999 (#1999-53)
Date: Mon, 15 Feb 1999 00:00:00 -0500
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Reply-To: MAX - Interactive Music/Multimedia Standard Environments
     
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There are 11 messages totalling 412 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. gates and ints and bangs (oh my) (2)
  2. right max/msp objects on Ircam ftp (2)
  3. Master Preset Object
  4. Mixing Audio Signals
  5. Things that would be nice
  6. OT: Studio 4 problems
  7. How negative is constructive criticism?
  8. message buffers?
  9. Master Preset Objects

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Date:    Sat, 13 Feb 1999 21:32:58 -0800
From:    Alex Stahl 
Subject: Re: gates and ints and bangs (oh my)

>you could also just make an encapsulation, gateo, that has the loadbang in
>it.

except you'd need to make a separate abstraction for every value of gate's
first argument, since the number of inlets varies

>even more than gate loadbangs, i am plagued with operand bangs. seems like
>half the "+" objects i use have little bangs right to their left, with an
>extra patch cord from the right inlet's source, so that both inlets cause
>output. maybe i should just build "+2", "*2", etc. abstractions. anybody
>got better ideas?

well, trigger objects look a little cleaner and clearer (right operand goes
into a "t b i" just above the + object).

I'm for plain-old loadbang-ridden "ANSI Max" after recently trying to
revive a patch I made six years ago. It was so full of five-segment patch
cords, unsupported objects that haven't been recompiled for PPC, and
trivial screen aesthetic abstractions that I had no idea what whoever made
it was thinking. Hide on Lock to the rescue!

-Alex Stahl

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Date:    Sun, 14 Feb 1999 07:06:47 +0100
From:    Manuel Poletti 
Subject: right max/msp objects on Ircam ftp

sorry I just meant:

The RIGHT following Max/MSP objects have been added to the Ircam Max public
ftp:







I just forgot that little nasty '.bin' extension ahlala.

_M

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Date:    Sun, 14 Feb 1999 07:53:19 +0100
From:    Manuel Poletti 
Subject: right max/msp objects on Ircam ftp

I try my best to follow the beat of Max developers:

Stephen's public objects (gates with two arguments, collx with three...)
available there too:


_M

PS: the archive is growing, but we miss some MSP patches.And what about a
discussion around its classification ? I remember a mail some days ago
about that (from -R ?) but can't find it here.I'm interested in.Some
suggestions ?

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 14 Feb 1999 02:53:31 -0500
From:    Nicholas Longo <71477.2332@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject: Re: Master Preset Object

<
Subject: Mixing Audio Signals

I have some Problems Mixing Audio Signals in MSP.
I know of course that audio signals add each other and if they reach 1
the Output of DAC is clipping.
To avoid this we normally use the *~ (Multiply Object). Am I right?
So If we got 5 Signals playing together, they have all have to be
multiplied with 0.2. Right?
But what if I have,lets say, in Part ONE 4 Signals and Part TWO 1 signal?
Have I always take care? Isnt there any mixer object out there?
It would be great to have such an object. Just give it the number of
Inputs as Arguments:Ready!
The Best would be this Object has an integrated Selctor Function so that
unused Signal Networks can be filtered out.
Am I right?
Is there such an Object out there? If not how can I build such a Patch?

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 14 Feb 1999 15:32:22 +0100
From:    Peter Castine 
Subject: Re: Things that would be nice

On around 12-2-99 20:28, Martin Gotfrit said something like:

>4. As I get better at encapsulation this becomes less of an issue but what
>about a system similar to graphics programs where the parts of the display
>could be in a specific layer.  That way one might be able to easily isolate
>and modify a particular function.  Inevitably, in building a complex front
>page there still is a nest of wires and I'd love not to have to "see" a
>layer as I'm connecting a bunch of sends/recieves to a matrix of graphic
>objects.

A couple of people have mentioned this, but I feel that encapsulating
into sub-patchers is a much more powerful tool than layers (you can
re-use sub-patchers).

Also, there's nothing like tidy programming to clear up those nests of
wires. Seriously: when you can no longer see which boxes are connects to
what boxes, it's time to encapsulate.

Not to denigrate layers, but given the abvoe, I see that as a really low
priority.

Cheers,

Peter

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 14 Feb 1999 18:05:52 +0100
From:    Peter Castine 
Subject: Re: gates and ints and bangs (oh my)

On around 13-2-99 10:27, jhno said something like:

>maybe i should just build "+2", "*2", etc. abstractions. anybody
>got better ideas?

Perhaps better to build ``bangplus'' & Co. abstractions that can be
parameterized. Actually, this would probably be a great "first external"
exercise, if anyone's about to take the plunge.

>ps - how about a right inlet for sliders and other interface objects, that
>sets their value without outputting it? consistent with max standards, and
>clears out a whole swath of "prepend set" objects...

``set $1'' might be a tiny bit more efficient.

Cheers,

Peter

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 14 Feb 1999 18:08:46 +0200
From:    Eirik Lie 
Subject: OT: Studio 4 problems

Pardon me for being slightly off-topic, but I believe there's a lot of
Studio 4 experts on this list, so:
I'm having trouble with my Opcode Studio 4 midi interface. I have
previously heard that some people have had bad experiences with it, but
mine has worked just fine, until recently. Some times, usually when
returning to a midi application after having used some non-midi apps, I got
the error message: The Studio 4's current state couldn't be loaded. Please
check your cables etc. etc. Some times I would have to quit and relaunch
the midi apps, or even reboot the Mac, but some days ago not even that
would help. Now I can't get the Mac to recognize the Studio 4 at all, not
even by running OMS setup and trying to make a new studio setup. There's
nothing wrong with the cables, as my modem connected to the thru socket is
working perfectly. Of course I've tried switching it off and on, and I have
tried both the A and B sockets on the interface.
Any ideas?

Eirik Lie, Bjornerabben 9, N-0383 Oslo, Norway
Email: eirik.lie@notam.uio.no   -   Tel +47 22 50 23 14
Check out my CD "12 Bilder": http://home.sol.no/home/eiriklie/Visual.html

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 14 Feb 1999 13:33:15 EST
From:    JohnBrit@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: How negative is constructive criticism?

In a message dated 2/13/99 21:00:56, you wrote:

<
Subject: Re: Things that would be nice

>>As Max 4 is now cooking, would it be possible to add an argument to
>>'gate' (and i/f/l/sgate two...) indicating its loading output?

>John Brit:
>I made this exact point (along with several others) headed "things that
annoy"
>about three months ago. Nobody even acknowledged my input so I hope
someone
>takes more notice of your request.

Maybe it was the negativity of 'things that annoy' rather than
the new-age goodness of 'things that would be nice' ;-)

In any event, I've added the second argument to the optimized gates
collection at: http://www.musikinetix.com/Download/Download/html

Hey Stephen,
Thanks for pointing out that I tend to wait until something is driving me
crazy before I post suggestions about things that are winding me up. Next
time
I have some constructive criticisms about MAX objects I'll make sure I
sprinkle sufficient quantities of organically produced sugar all over it.
JW.

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 14 Feb 1999 16:54:05 -0500
From:    Jeff Mann 
Subject: message buffers?

Hi all - I keep coming across situations where I need a simple buffer
object. I just need to be able to store incoming messages temporarily
and then clock them out one at a time with bangs - a standard
first-in-first-out (fifo) buffer. An argument would set the buffer depth
and there would be a "flush" inlet and a "buffer overflow" flag outlet.
A switch for "lifo" behaviour might also be useful.

I made a fifo patcher that works for ints, using funbuff and some
counters etc., but it seems kind of complex for this low-level task.
Also, I would like this for lists and symbols (I could use a coll and
counters etc. - even more complex) but ideally I think it would just
work for "any message". This last one is giving me a headache. How, for
example, can you store the word "set"? You can't "prepend symbol" to it.

Is there any object or reasonably straightforward way of doing this?
--
Jeff Mann - Information Consumer ___O___O__= -- >
mailto:jefman@utcc.utoronto.ca ||   http://www.interlog.com/~jefman
Visit the Art & Robotics Group site: http://www.interaccess.org/arg

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 14 Feb 1999 22:18:21 +0000
From:    david stevens 
Subject: Re: Master Preset Objects

Stephen Kay wrote:

>
> Also, let's examine the scenario Todd suggests - multiple presets
> inside multiple patchers, all being controlled by a main preset.
> What happens if you want to make an installed application from
> such a system?  Once you've done that, you can no longer save
> presets within patchers and subpatchers.  You have to provide
> a way for the user to save and load the data from disk.  This becomes
> impossible with a preset object - even though it can save to disk,
> do you really want to save an individual preset file for every
> preset in the application?

which is one of the things i discovered when i tried to make a collective
out of
my patcher - part of it is the compressor that Alex Stahl kindly sent me,
which
uses a preset object connected to a table to remember the different
compressor
curves. Whenever i try to copy it, all the presets disappear. I tried saving
and
loading the preset, and sometimes it worked, sometimes it didn't.

so today i sat down to have a closer look at coll and table, and came up
with a
solution. i'm sure it takes more processing power than a simple preset, but
hopefully it'll be more reliable.

for what it's worth - here it is. it's basically a patch for drawing in,
storing, and recalling different curves in a table object.

max v2;
#N vpatcher 20 70 439 421;
#P user ubutton 246 34 30 23 0 0;
#P hidden button 255 134 15 0;
#P user IncDec 331 34 15 15 0 0;
#P button 315 34 15 0;
#P number 348 34 35 9 1 10 67 3;
#P hidden newex 326 78 27 196617 int;
#P hidden newex 293 80 27 196617 + 1;
#P hidden newex 289 109 40 196617 gate 3;
#P user umenu 279 34 33 196645 1 64;
#X add save;
#X add open;
#X add clear;
#P hidden message 208 178 55 196617 remove \$1;
#P hidden message 234 92 28 196617 open;
#P hidden message 172 197 35 196617 set \$1;
#P hidden message 98 148 31 196617 clear;
#P hidden newex 135 249 52 196617 prepend 1;
#P hidden newex 157 312 69 196617 prepend set 0;
#P hidden newex 135 218 35 196617 thresh;
#P hidden message 160 164 31 196617 dump;
#N coll ;
#T flags 1 0;
#T 1 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 51 51 51 51 51 51 51
51
51 51 51 51 51 51 51 51 51 51 51 51 51 51 51 51 51 51 51 51 51 51 50 50 50
50 50
50 50 50 50 50 50 50 50 51 51 51 51 51 51 52 52 53 53 53 54 54 54 55 55 55
56 56
56 56 57 57 57 57 57 57 57 57 57 57 57 57 57 57 57 57 57 58 58 59 59 60 60
61 61
61 62 62 62 62 62 62 61 61 60 60 59 59 59 58 58 58 57 57 56 55 55;
#T 2 50 50 102 101 100 99 97 95 94 93 91 90 89 88 86 85 84 83 82 81 80 78 77
76
75 74 72 70 69 67 65 64 62 61 59 58 56 55 54 52 51 49 48 46 44 41 39 38 36
35 32
30 27 25 23 21 18 17 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 27 28 30 31 33 34 35 36 38 39 40
41 42
43 45 46 47 48 49 51 52 53 55 56 57 58 58 59 60 60 61 61 62 62 63 64 64 65
66 67
68 69 70 71 72 73 74 74 75 75 76 77 77 78 79 80 82 83 84 84 87 87 55;
#T 3 1 122 121 121 120 119 119 118 118 117 116 116 115 114 114 113 112 112
111
110 110 109 108 107 106 105 105 104 103 102 101 100 99 98 97 96 95 94 93 91
90
89 88 86 84 82 80 78 77 75 74 73 71 70 69 67 66 64 63 61 60 59 58 57 56 55
54 53
52 51 51 50 49 48 48 47 46 45 45 44 43 43 42 41 40 39 38 37 36 36 35 34 33
32 31
30 29 28 27 26 24 23 21 19 17 14 12 11 9 8 6 6 5 5 4 4 4 4 4 3 3 2 2 2 1 1 1
0;
#T 4 1 122 121 117 117 116 116 115 114 114 113 112 111 111 110 109 107 106
104
102 101 99 97 95 94 92 90 87 83 68 65 63 60 57 56 55 54 52 51 50 49 48 47 46
46
45 44 43 43 42 42 41 41 40 40 40 40 40 40 40 40 40 40 40 40 40 40 40 41 41
42 42
43 43 44 44 45 45 46 47 47 48 49 50 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 60 63 65 68 71
73 76
78 84 87 90 93 96 103 108 110 111 113 114 115 116 116 117 117 118 119 119
120
121 121 122 123 123 123 124 126;
#T 5 1 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 73 74 75 76 76 67 66 66 65 64 65 66 67 68
68
69 70 71 72 72 73 74 75 75 76 76 77 77 78 78 72 66 63 59 59 60 60 61 61 62
62 62
63 63 64 64 65 66 53 54 54 55 56 56 57 58 60 61 62 64 65 66 51 52 53 54 55
56 57
59 60 62 64 65 67 69 68 65 61 62 64 65 67 68 70 71 73 74 76 78 80 81 83 85
87 76
77 79 80 81 83 84 87 89 92 90 85 87 89 90 92 91 88 89 89 86 85 84;
#P hidden newobj 147 283 40 196617 coll;
#N vtable 128 38 234 398 558 999900 128;
#P hidden newobj 135 195 30 196617 table;
#P comment 245 34 30 196617 open table;
#P hidden fasten 12 2 10 0 324 165 213 165;
#P hidden fasten 12 1 2 0 309 274 152 274;
#P hidden fasten 12 0 18 0 294 131 260 131;
#P hidden fasten 10 0 2 0 213 224 190 224 190 276 152 276;
#P hidden fasten 12 0 8 0 294 156 199 156 199 185 177 185;
#P hidden connect 1 0 4 0;
#P hidden fasten 17 0 15 0 336 55 346 55 346 30 353 30;
#P hidden fasten 19 0 9 0 251 77 239 77;
#P hidden fasten 7 0 2 0 103 276 152 276;
#P hidden fasten 15 0 14 1 353 64 348 64;
#P hidden fasten 15 0 17 0 353 53 346 53 346 29 336 29;
#P hidden fasten 8 0 6 0 177 240 140 240;
#P hidden fasten 13 0 12 0 298 104 294 104;
#P hidden fasten 14 0 12 1 331 103 324 103;
#P hidden fasten 6 0 2 0 140 277 152 277;
#P hidden connect 4 0 6 0;
#P hidden fasten 5 0 1 0 162 334 127 334 127 175 140 175;
#P hidden fasten 2 0 5 0 152 306 162 306;
#P hidden fasten 18 0 3 0 260 154 165 154;
#P hidden fasten 16 0 14 0 320 68 331 68;
#P hidden fasten 9 0 1 0 239 140 140 140;
#P hidden fasten 3 0 1 0 165 187 140 187;
#P hidden fasten 11 0 13 0 284 75 298 75;
#P pop;

i'd be interested to know what anyone thinks...

david

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End of MAX Digest - 13 Feb 1999 to 14 Feb 1999 (#1999-53)
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