Subject: MAX Digest - 10 Feb 1999 to 11 Feb 1999 (#1999-50)
Date: Fri, 12 Feb 1999 00:00:11 -0500
From: Automatic digest processor 
Reply-To: MAX - Interactive Music/Multimedia Standard Environments
     
To: Recipients of MAX digests 

There are 18 messages totalling 661 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. thispatcher/windows commands
  2. Standalone Crash w/ MotU 2408-b!257+!2
  3. CD Object and G3 problems
  4. CMC
  5. MAX Digest - 9 Feb 1999 to 10 Feb 1999 (#1999-49)
  6. max and director (3)
  7. MSP program broadcast broadcast
  8. Suggestion about 'gate' (2)
  9. thispatcher/windows commands + a Preset question (2)
 10. Director Mulimediaist Desktop Graphic Design Hell
 11. need some maths help! and..clicks (3)
 12. thOnk_0+2 available. Free granular synthesis tool for mac.

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 11 Feb 1999 08:50:03 +0000
From:    Trond Lossius 
Subject: Re: thispatcher/windows commands

david stevens wrote:

> i've tried sending windows flags .... commands to single windows (eg
windows
> flags nogrow), and that seems to work. however, if i feed a single message
box
> to several patchers, only one of them responds to the message.

Yes, I confirm the behaviour to. It could be a bug, but it might also be
that you
are asking to much redrawing of windows at the same time. A solution might
be to
send seperate messages, and offset one off the messages slightly in time.

Trond L.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 11 Feb 1999 01:52:45 EST
From:    Phil Hendricks 
Subject: Standalone Crash w/ MotU 2408-b!257+!2

Hi,
sorry if  this has already been addressed, but I'm new to the list and seem
to
have discovered a problem using any standalone created w/MAX+MSP?
Everything is fine until I quit the app--then I get a hard crash--a bomb or
sys bus error.
This is the case with  B!257+!2  Delicate Ear's Looper 1.5, CellSound and
any
other I've tested.... very frustrating.
Finally, after much frustration, I have narrowed it down,  if I turn audio
off
in B!257+!2  before quitting--no crash.  Or if I turn off the the 2408 in
sound manager and then quit again no crash.
MotU's tech support has not responded in 3 weeks so I'm trying this list.
Actually, now that I've figured out the cause it's at least an avoidable
crash.... but nonetheless it seems to be a bug on someone's part.
best,
phil

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 10 Feb 1999 23:41:28 -0800
From:    Keay 
Subject: CD Object and G3 problems

Hello all,

   I am trying to find out if there has ever been a solution to the G3
CD-object problem.  I have downloaded the latest object from cycling,
but it just gives us "no cd in drive" or some such message.  We are
still using the old cd-object helpfile to try to run the thing.

If you have a solution you may either reply to me personally or via the
list.
Thanks much,

Keay@hooked.net

I did look at all the previous postings to the list, but found no
decisive solutions posted

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 11 Feb 1999 03:36:03 +0000
From:    Mathius Shadow Sky 
Subject: CMC


     To:
         mathius@USIT.NET


Subject: Re: MAX Digest - 9 Feb 1999 to 10 Feb 1999 (#1999-49)

 Jacques wrote

>What are the possibility to have communications a) Max directing Director
>b) Director giving order to Max (less useful for me for the moment)
>Do you know if I need special Max object? special Director Xtra?
>and what is the best wiring to do that (localTalk, Mac IP, TCP/IP?)

Ive done a bit of this....the most straight forward ive found from a
software standpoint is to use Midi. There are two midi Xobjects...hypermidi
from EAR software and MidXtra from Yamaha..however the MidXtra i believe
will only handle midiout (sadly). Hypermidi will need Apple midi manager
and Patchbay to run. You will need two basic midi interfaces as well but
timing is good (depending on your director code) and the Max end is very
easy.
The other alternative is to use a straight serial data link...using the Max
serial object and the Director SerialPort Object (already part of
Director)..there is some documentation on this object in one of the
Director manuals. Slightly more fiddly on the software side and ive
occasionally got funny reactions from the port but uses a lot less extra
bits and pieces..probably worth a go.
Ive never tried doing it over a network.

After all that i have no experience of the new no 'old style' serial ports
G3 machines...which will I think need some other hardware...midi or
otherwise.

Dominic Robson

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 11 Feb 1999 23:10:45 +1100
From:    Garth Paine 
Subject: Re: max and director

>Perhaps someone can help me for a project for an instalation beside a dance
>performance.
>I made a Director 6 document with sounds, images, video running on a G3
>(blue new one), I want to command the interactivity with Icube sensor
>pluged into Max 3.0 running on another computer (Umax with 603e/200Mhz),
>the both are wired thru eternet on wich I can use localtalk or TCP/IP.
>What are the possibility to have communications a) Max directing Director
>b) Director giving order to Max (less useful for me for the moment)
>Do you know if I need special Max object? special Director Xtra?
>and what is the best wiring to do that (localTalk, Mac IP, TCP/IP?)
>Anybody have experience of this kind of collaboration?
>Thank you in advance for your attention

You can send commands for Director to play from any marker, or infact to do
anything you can programme in LINGO by sending ASCI strings from MAX over
RS232 using the Serial Object.  As you define the expected string in LINGO,
it can be anything MAX can send.

Cheers,

Garth

See information about my new immersive interactive sound installations
http://creativeaccess.com.au/~garth/

,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.
. Composer, Sound Designer
.. Interactives Designer
... Interactive Installation Artist
.... Exhibition Consultant
.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 11 Feb 1999 09:20:29 -0500
From:    "one Cointreau, on ice...." 
Subject: MSP program broadcast broadcast

After typing something like this for the 2nth time, a really smart
guy would simply do this:

I'm in the process of assembling a 2-hour broadcast of works produced
with MSP on the local equivalent of KPF(A,K,etc.) for RTQE, a late
20th century program I've hosted since '87 (those of you who're nostalgic
about seeing antiorp's name on your screen might check out this week's
playlist at http://www.msn.fullfeed.com/~gtaylor/02.14.99.html for a sample
of what's done).

If you're interested in submitting works, there are a couple of options.
CD/CD-R would be fine. There are MDs wired to the board, DAT is doable
with some slight increase in difficulty. MP3 would appear to be an easy
solution, but reliable server connections and ripping stuff and burning it
takes a lot of time (and thus my preference is for the earlier options).

If you're interested, work can be submitted to:

Gregory Taylor, RTQE
WORT-FM
118 South Bedford Street
Madison, WI 53704

Thanks for your time. I won't be bothering y'all with this again. I'm
just trying to give my wrists a break.

Let a hundred objects bloom,
Greg

--
Knowledge is not enough|Science is not enough|Love is dreaming this equation
Gregory Taylor|host, RTQE|WORT-FM, Madison, WI|www.msn.fullfeed.com/~gtaylor

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 11 Feb 1999 09:35:15 -0600
From:    "Brian K. Shepard" 
Subject: Re: Suggestion about 'gate'

>Hello All,
>
>'gate' is a really cool object but there is one thing boring about it:
>it ALWAYS initialize at "0"/closed position...
>
>there are so many cases where I would like it initialized open that I
>would like to make the following suggestion:
>
>As Max 4 is now cooking, would it be possible to add an argument to
>'gate' (and i/f/l/sgate two...) indicating its loading output?
>
>With this kind of gates, I would remove many many 'loadbang'!
>
>We would call it... gateX :) :) :)
>
>Bye
>
>Philippe

I love this suggestion and second it!

--Brian

Dr. Brian K. Shepard
University of Oklahoma
School of Music
bkshepard@ou.edu
http://music.ou.edu/faculty/shepard/

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 11 Feb 1999 11:31:46 -0500
From:    Eric Singer 
Subject: Re: Suggestion about 'gate'

I'll second that request...though it would cause problems with backwards
compatibility.

At 7:22 PM -0500 2/10/99, Philippe Montémont wrote:
>Hello All,
>
>'gate' is a really cool object but there is one thing boring about it:
>it ALWAYS initialize at "0"/closed position...
>
>there are so many cases where I would like it initialized open that I
>would like to make the following suggestion:
>
>As Max 4 is now cooking, would it be possible to add an argument to
>'gate' (and i/f/l/sgate two...) indicating its loading output?
>
>With this kind of gates, I would remove many many 'loadbang'!
>
>We would call it... gateX :) :) :)
>
>Bye
>
>Philippe
>ph_m@club-internet.fr

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 11 Feb 1999 16:54:53 +0000
From:    david stevens 
Subject: Re: thispatcher/windows commands + a Preset question

I wrote:
>
> > i've tried sending windows flags .... commands to single windows (eg
windows
> > flags nogrow), and that seems to work. however, if i feed a single
message box
> > to several patchers, only one of them responds to the message.
>
Trond (and several others) replied:

> Yes, I confirm the behaviour to. It could be a bug, but it might also be
that you
> are asking to much redrawing of windows at the same time. A solution might
be to
> send seperate messages, and offset one off the messages slightly in time.

In fact I used Oeyvind's suggestion, and put message boxes in every single
subpatch, and then sent them a loadbang. That worked.

The other thing that I'd like to be able to do ia to save the settings of
all
the user interface objects in the whole patch. Which is to say that I want
to
save the state of objects inside patchers to a single Preset object in the
top-level patcher. Is this actually possible? (I tried connecting a preset
to a
preset inside a subpatch, and also just connecting a toplevel preset to a
patcher, but i couldn't get it to work).

thanks

david

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 11 Feb 1999 13:17:03 -0500
From:    Stephen Kay 
Subject: Re: thispatcher/windows commands + a Preset question

>The other thing that I'd like to be able to do ia to save the settings o=
f
all
>the user interface objects in the whole patch. Which is to say that I wa=
nt
to
>save the state of objects inside patchers to a single Preset object in t=
he
>top-level patcher. Is this actually possible?
>david

Not only is it impossible and impractical (using a preset), but if you
modify
the patch you will probably destroy your presets.  I've said it before an=
d
I'll say it again: the preset object is only good for down n' dirty
saving of a few UI objects in a single window.

The correct approach is to store all settings in a coll file.  The coll i=
s
easily modifiable, can have the file written to disk, you can easily add/=

remove UI objects from the patch and edit the coll file to reflect it,
the coll file can have a custom icon if you use collX) etc.

'collX' (enhanced and modified coll object) is available for free at:
http://www.musikinetix.com/MaxCorner/PublicDomain.html

Furthermore, a complete tutorial (example patcher) showing how to save
the states of multiple UI objects in multiple patchers into a coll file
is also available at the same URL.

Stephen Kay
--------------------------------------------------------------------
The MegaMAX Collection: =

   http://www.musikinetix.com/MegaMax/MegaMax.html
Free Max objects!:
   http://www.musikinetix.com/MaxCorner/PublicDomain.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 11 Feb 1999 14:51:17 -0500
From:    "David Z. Saltz" 
Subject: Re: Director Mulimediaist Desktop Graphic Design Hell

Jim Wood wrote:

> Not making stupid
> point and click Director movies, which is what people
> think Multimedia is, even "electronic art"- in the UK
> !!!!
> BUT, trying to make some interesting Music and truly
> interactive work using MAX. A more intuative
> Multimedia.

While I wouldn't give up Max for anything, I also happen to be very fond of
Director. The OOP capabilities of Lingo allow you to go far beyond "stupid
point and click" movies. If you want a good sense of Director's potential as
a
programming environment, check out Peter Small's book LINGO SORCERY: THE
MAGIC
OF LISTS, OBJECTS AND INTELLIGENT AGENTS.

I use and teach both Max and Director extensively, strictly for non-music
applications (installations, performance art and theater). While I would
LOVE
Max to have much stronger graphics capabilities, I fully appreciate David
Zicarelli's remarks about the infeasibility of Max, with only a single
programmer, coming anywhere close to matching Director's multimedia features
-- just as there's no chance that Director will ever be able to do what Max
does.

I've made some attempts to get Director and Max to work together via MIDI,
with limited success. It strikes me that the best of all possible worlds
would
be to have a MaxPlayer Xtra for Director, so that Max patches could be
imported as cast members into Director just as Quicktime media can be. As
long
as there were even a rudimentary means of passing messages between an
instance
of the MaxPlayer Xtra and Director (such as linking Max's send & receive
objects to Director's regular message hierarchy, so that Max could be send
and
receive Director events), the possibilities would be phenomenal! Such an
Xtra
could also be a great way to increase the Max market, opening it up to the
Director developer community.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 11 Feb 1999 20:39:33 +0000
From:    david stevens 
Subject: need some maths help! and..clicks

hi all,

i've just thought of one last thing i want to add to my patch; i want to use
a
groove~ object to read the buffer in my either of my endless loopers
(record/buffer/groove) which has its min & max loop points controlled by 2
midi faders.(LiSa-like)

obviously the midi fader values range from 0-127. the size of the buffer to
be
read (ie max loop value) can be varied (tho' not while recording as that
leads
to disaster!).  So i need to be able to scale my midi fader to whatever the
length of the buffer is set to. I need to scale 0-127 to a variable amount,
probably ranging between 5000 and 20000ms. I can't use a table as the range
is
variable, so i assume that i need an expr with a replaceable variable in it
($1).

can anyone help me with the formula (or perhaps have a better way of doing
this?)

one other thing - does anyone know a way of eliminating the clicks that
happen
when the record/buffer/groove combination loops whilst in record? (the click
happens presumably as record~ or groove~ (or both) jump back to 0 in the
buffer~)

thanks in advance

david

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 11 Feb 1999 22:14:54 +0100
From:    Peter Castine 
Subject: Re: max and director

On around 10-2-99 22:35, jacques.hoepffner said something like:

>I made a Director 6 document with sounds, images, video running on a G3
>(blue new one), I want to command the interactivity with Icube sensor
>pluged into Max 3.0 running on another computer (Umax with 603e/200Mhz),
>the both are wired thru eternet on wich I can use localtalk or TCP/IP.
>What are the possibility to have communications a) Max directing Director
>b) Director giving order to Max (less useful for me for the moment)
>Do you know if I need special Max object? special Director Xtra?
>and what is the best wiring to do that (localTalk, Mac IP, TCP/IP?)

I am under the impression that Director can listen and respond to MIDI.
If this is correct, Having Max send arbitrary MIDI events to Director is
probably the most straight-forward approach.

Alternately, you can have Max send AppleEvents to Director with the
aesend object. This doesn't implement all the inifinitude of
possibilities offered by Apple Events, but might do the trick. As yet
another alternative,  the QKSend suite of externals can
be used to have Max send AppleEvents to QuicKeys, which could probably do
anything you needed to in Director.

As for wiring: LocalTalk is cheap, your Ethernet alternatives (10BaseT,
etc.) are faster. Since you're only working with two computers, a lot of
the worries you will read of regarding larger networks are moot (your
application is not competing for bandwidth with hundreds of other
applications on a large network). At this point you can start thinking
about which protocols to run over your wiring (AppleTalk, TCP/IP, etc.).
Try not to confuse the protocol stack with the wiring use--the two are
different issues. In any case, the AppleEvents-based solutions would
require AppleTalk protocols (which would mean, if you want to use
Ethernet wiring, EtherTalk).

There is a TCP/IP external out in the world somewhere, so you could also
have Max use TCP/IP over Ethernet. However, I'm not sure that there is a
convenient way of having this talk to Director.

Hope this helps,

Peter

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 11 Feb 1999 23:27:22 +0100
From:    Sukandar Kartadinata 
Subject: Re: need some maths help! and..clicks

hi david, sounds easy enough if simple scaling is all you want....
otherwise let me know

max v2;
#N vpatcher 50 40 450 340;
#P flonum 129 187 65 9 0 0 0 3;
#P number 217 118 62 9 0 0 0 3;
#P number 129 117 35 9 0 0 0 3;
#P newex 129 154 98 196617 expr $f1/127.*$f2;
#P comment 217 89 100 196617 buffer length;
#P comment 129 89 78 196617 MIDI controller value;
#P connect 2 0 5 0;
#P connect 3 0 2 0;
#P connect 4 0 2 1;
#P pop;

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Sukandar Kartadinata
Custom Music Technology
Hagenauerstr. 6, 10435 Berlin, 030-44051219
http://members.xoom.com/Sukandar/
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 11 Feb 1999 23:55:15 +0100
From:    Sukandar Kartadinata 
Subject: Re: max and director

>What are the possibility to have communications a) Max directing Director

here's what I got from the Director newsgroup when I asked a similar
question
 - can't confirm the usability though
(as I ended using a combo of MAX, Image/ine, FIleMaker and AppleScript)

hope this helps,
sk

begin forwarded message:

>Hi,
>You can control director using both serial or tcp/ip.
>
>Using tcp/ip is very simple. You use "client pull" method. In this technic,
>director read an instruction file from a remote http server (via getNetText
>or other net lingo command). The instruction file can be set by cgi, asp or
>any other method. You can write director interface for the cgi. I created
>multiuser game for 6 player this way.
>
>VERY IMPORTANT: if you use this technic write ? at the end of the textfile
>url, in order to prevent caching.
>
>The serial communication uses an xtra to transmit and receive instructions.
>you can find the direct communication xtra at
>http://www.directxtras.com/dm_home.htm.
>
>I hope tha you will find this information useful,
>Guy

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Sukandar Kartadinata
Custom Music Technology
Hagenauerstr. 6, 10435 Berlin, 030-44051219
http://members.xoom.com/Sukandar/
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 12 Feb 1999 00:15:39 +0100
From:    arjen van der Schoot 
Subject: thOnk_0+2 available. Free granular synthesis tool for mac.

Hi,

For all you thonkers out there: finally the sequel  is netborn.
It's called thOnk_0+2, and you can get it at  http://www.audioease.com
Less slow, new interface, and you are actually getting some control this
time. Very little of course.

Any comments to thonk@audioease.com.

Bye,

Arjen van der Schoot
Audio Ease

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 11 Feb 1999 18:29:06 -0500
From:    Stephen Kay 
Subject: need some maths help! and..clicks

>david stevens:
>So i need to be able to scale my midi fader to whatever the
>length of the buffer is set to. I need to scale 0-127 to a variable
amount,
>probably ranging between 5000 and 20000ms. I can't use a table as the
range is
>variable, so i assume that i need an expr with a replaceable variable in=

it
>($1).
> can anyone help me with the formula (or perhaps have a better way of
doing this?)

A basic, general purose scaling equation is the following, where

$i1 =3D input number to be scaled
$i2 =3D old range bottom  (i.e. 0)
$i3 =3D old range top     (i.e. 127)
$i4 =3D new range bottom  (i.e. 0)
$i5 =3D new range top     (i.e. 5000ms)

expr (($i1 - $i2) * ($i5 - $i4) / ($i3 - $i2)) + $i4

However, you could just use the 'scaleX' object (part of
the MegaMAX collection you just purchased :-) which does exactly
this, along with some other refinements.

In your case, the scaleX object would look like:

scaleX 0 127 0 5000

You would then simply send the current actual length of the
buffer (i.e. 5000 ~ 20000ms) into the 4th inlet to replace
the fourth argument, scaling on the fly in real-time.

There used to be an abstraction by Eric Singer that simply
used the above equation in an expr, wired up with inlets.  But
from the above equation, anyone interested should be able to
roll their own.

Stephen Kay
--------------------------------------------------------------------
The MegaMAX Collection: =

   http://www.musikinetix.com/MegaMax/MegaMax.html
Free Max objects!:
   http://www.musikinetix.com/MaxCorner/PublicDomain.html
--------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

End of MAX Digest - 10 Feb 1999 to 11 Feb 1999 (#1999-50)
*********************************************************