Subject: MAX Digest - 9 Feb 1999 to 10 Feb 1999 (#1999-49)
Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 00:00:13 -0500
From: Automatic digest processor 
Reply-To: MAX - Interactive Music/Multimedia Standard Environments
To: Recipients of MAX digests 

There are 12 messages totalling 415 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. standalone apps & custom externals
  2. Director Mulimediaist Desktop Graphic Design Hell
  3. computer music controversy #3
  4. smart ass comments
  5. MSP 1.0 revision 6
  6. events!
  7. thispatcher/windows commands (2)
  8. Revamping VNS motion tracker
  9. max and director
 10. Suggestion about 'gate'
 11. Graphics et al


Date:    Tue, 9 Feb 1999 21:42:25 -0800
From:    David Zicarelli 
Subject: Re: standalone apps & custom externals

Gary Bourgeois  writes:

>Has anyone encountered a problem when trying to create a collective ( &
>ultimately a standalone ) when using custom externals ?

One problem may be that if you've made PowerPC-only externs,
Max won't find them in a collective unless they have a 68K 'mAxL'
resource inside with the same name as the external. Look at
any MSP extern in ResEdit, you'll see a tiny mAxL resource.
Copy it into your resource file, renumber it if you like, and
rename it to be the name of your extern. This code resource
merely prints the message "x: not available for 68K" where
x is the name of your object.

The mAxL resources are used as a kind of "directory" within
the collective. It's much harder to parse out the PowerPC
code quickly, though not impossible.

David Z.


Date:    Tue, 9 Feb 1999 21:49:23 -0800
From:    David Zicarelli 
Subject: Re: Director Mulimediaist Desktop Graphic Design Hell

Johnny DeKam  writes:

>I wish for rollovers, text handling, more graphics support, layers in a
>patch, a zoom tool, even a hand to scroll around big patchers -- such small
>things to ask from the best music program ever made?

I'll be doing what I can for future versions of Max. But as a
single person, I can't really compete against what I presume is
an army of people working on Director. And I suspect that, if
there were an army of people working on Max, it might turn out
to be about as fun to use as Director.

David Z.


Date:    Wed, 10 Feb 1999 02:14:51 -0500
From:    Nicholas Longo <71477.2332@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject: Re: computer music controversy #3

I really think we should invite antiorp back for this.

Nick Longo


Date:    Wed, 10 Feb 1999 00:30:41 -0800
From:    Peter Nyboer 
Subject: smart ass comments

>"Before criticizing me personally (or anybody) you
>should visit my web site to know who I am and what I do"

Then you'd *really* get some teeth in your arguments!

>...shows a free mind against
>established comfort

I'd be more impressed with an established mind against free comfort.

>Anybody who wants to know can learn: and this is only the

You mean that Anybody with a computer and a reliable internet connection?
I sure women in Afghanastan would *love* to learn.  The internet is not a
saviour of knowledge: it as much a source of misinformation as it is
information.  And porn.  Computers do not make things easier, they just
make more complicated things possible.

>They must have headaches in
>Washington and Hollywood !

No headaches, just interns.

>Culture and communication are the most fabulous weapons to brainwash

Stop Culture! Stop Communication! Stop Culture! Stop Communication!  Don't
speak to me, lest you brainwash me!  Don't show me your art!  I may be
unduly influenced!

Matius, your shadow is covering your sky.  Lay off the heavy sauces, and
call me in a week.


Peter Nyboer
"Now, I not some guru or Dog or anything"


Date:    Wed, 10 Feb 1999 11:45:24 -0800
From:    David Zicarelli 
Subject: MSP 1.0 revision 6

I'm pleased as punch to announce that MSP revision 6 is now
available for downloading from the Cycling '74 MSP download
page. It's a fair number of bug fixes and a few new features
too. Plus I updated the dates and stuff in the about box.

The feature I'm most excited about is that line~ and curve~
are now sample-accurate. OK, not that exciting, but hey,
it's a free update.

Please go to
to get MSP 6. The update file is a little more than 1 megabyte.

David Z.


Date:    Wed, 10 Feb 1999 11:39:55 -0800
From:    David Zicarelli 
Subject: events!

If you have Max- or MSP-related events you'd like publicized
on a site with several gazillion hits per minute--next time, consider
sending your event information to and
it will appear on the forthcoming Cycling '74 Events page.
The sort of events we're talking about are: Max/MSP workshops, calls
for participation in this or the other thing, and upcoming concerts or
other more or less trivial forms of entertainment in which
Max/MSP might play even the most peripheral role. If you can think of
another sort of event that you think qualifies, great.

Remember, that's to post your event. And
soon, when we get some events, bookmark
We're not trying to compete with anyone (except Microsoft) so anyone
else who wants to publicize events too, it's no skin off my back.

David Z.


Date:    Wed, 10 Feb 1999 20:13:56 +0000
From:    david stevens 
Subject: thispatcher/windows commands

hi all,

having gotten my patch almost the way i want it, i'm starting to look at
up the visual appearance.

inside each patcher, i've put a thispatcher object with its own inlet (i
getting "xxxx doesn't recognise (message) yyyy" when i had thispatcher
to one of the other inlets). i'm using open & close messages to (yup) open
close the patcher windows.

i've tried sending windows flags .... commands to single windows (eg windows
flags nogrow), and that seems to work. however, if i feed a single message
to several patchers, only one of them responds to the message.

(nb the message box is in the main Patch, and it's connected to the
inlets on the subpatchers)

i've tried this with direct connections, and also by sending the messages
send/receive objects (which is what i'd ultimately like to do, as it keeps
things neater). when i try using send/receive, nothing happens at all.

do i need to put the message boxes _inside_ each subpatch? should this
work the way i'm trying it? is it not possible to send these kind of
via send/receive?

thanks for any help!



Date:    Wed, 10 Feb 1999 15:57:30 -0500
From:    David Rokeby 
Subject: Revamping VNS motion tracker

Hi fellow Maxers,

I am in the process of designing a new version of my VNSIII video motion
tracking system. I wanted to get some feedback because I am thinking of
making some significant changes.

The current version is a SCSI hardware device. The current direction fo
the most recent Apple computers implies to me that this is soon to be a
deadend. So I am working towards a version that works with video-in PCI
cards. This new version, currently working with the ATI XClaim VR card,
offers higher resolution, lower noise levels and some newer processing
possibilities. On the other hand it takes more processor time, and
requires a PCI Macintosh. leaving those who use Powerbooks out in the

The recommended system for the new version would be a G3. Slower
PowerMac's might be okay, but the overhead for video processing might be
too much. On a G3, the test version is capable of running MSP decently
while processing video at 320 x 240 resolution.

I am currently at the end of my current run of VNSIII boards (There are
one or two left). I would prefer to move over to the video card version
because it simplifies my life ( I won't have to build the units, and I
won't have to maintain an inventory of expensive and hard to get parts ).

So the point of this note is to find out if anyone has compelling reasons
why I should keep offering the VNSIII SCSI version. I have not finalized
pricing, but you will probably be able to buy a bottom of the line PCI G3
for the difference between VNSIII and the new version.

David Rokeby - very nervous systems
135 Manning Avenue, Toronto, Ontario Canada
phone 416.603.4640 / fax 416.603.4641


Date:    Wed, 10 Feb 1999 22:35:40 +0100
From:    "jacques.hoepffner" 
Subject: max and director

Perhaps someone can help me for a project for an instalation beside a dance
I made a Director 6 document with sounds, images, video running on a G3
(blue new one), I want to command the interactivity with Icube sensor
pluged into Max 3.0 running on another computer (Umax with 603e/200Mhz),
the both are wired thru eternet on wich I can use localtalk or TCP/IP.
What are the possibility to have communications a) Max directing Director
b) Director giving order to Max (less useful for me for the moment)
Do you know if I need special Max object? special Director Xtra?
and what is the best wiring to do that (localTalk, Mac IP, TCP/IP?)
Anybody have experience of this kind of collaboration?
Thank you in advance for your attention

Jacques Hoepffner, photographe
31, rue de la R=E9union 75020 Paris France
t=E9l 33 (0)1 44 93 39 27 fax 33 (0)1 44 93 39 70


Date:    Thu, 11 Feb 1999 00:22:10 +0000
From:    Philippe Montémont 
Subject: Suggestion about 'gate'

Hello All,

'gate' is a really cool object but there is one thing boring about it:
it ALWAYS initialize at "0"/closed position...

there are so many cases where I would like it initialized open that I
would like to make the following suggestion:

As Max 4 is now cooking, would it be possible to add an argument to
'gate' (and i/f/l/sgate two...) indicating its loading output?

With this kind of gates, I would remove many many 'loadbang'!

We would call it... gateX :) :) :)




Date:    Wed, 10 Feb 1999 17:07:37 -0800
From:    Jim Wood 
Subject: Graphics et al

> if MAX had robust graphics, than it could truly
break out of its "music
> mostly" shell.  It is theoretically possible to
author a CDROM using MAX,
> given that it has many elements - a runtime player,
simple quicktime, sound
> and graphics, and customization (in C) -- but to do
so would be like a monk
> wearing a hair-shirt... self torture.


yes this is what I was getting at. Not making stupid
point and click Director movies, which is what people
think Multimedia is, even "electronic art"- in the UK
BUT, trying to make some interesting Music and truly
interactive work using MAX. A more intuative
I ve tried to make part of a cdrom in Max, opening
Max apps from a Director movie it worked OK if a
little clunky, and making an interface to go over the
Max window is like the hairshirt indeed.
I proprse an new "super"Graphic window that could
open on top of the Max window  goto full screen if
you wantedand allow more control of sprites, Movies,
picts etc....... anyone game enough at having a go??

Also good news about GEM, Paul Ossenbruggen is
working on a Mac port of Miller Puckettes pd and

 Yes, I am working on this but it is definitely a
spare time project of which
> I have little of. The good news is Apple is about
to release a really cool
> version of OpenGL which should be great especially
on the G4 when they
> optimize for altivec. I am sure you can do some
really inredible stuff with
> that chip. I am pretty excited.
> Thanks for the note, mail tends to inspire me to do
more on pd.
> - Paul
> p.s. I am writing a version of PD and GEM which is
similar to Max but not
> the same product..
GEM at

Good maxing


Get your free address at


Date:    Wed, 10 Feb 1999 22:20:31 -0500
From:    Stephen Kay 
Subject: thispatcher/windows commands

>i've tried sending windows flags .... commands to single windows (eg
>flags nogrow), and that seems to work. however, if i feed a single messa=
>to several patchers, only one of them responds to the message.

I can verify this weird behaviour.  Smells like a bug to me.  Only the
patcher to receive the message responds to the change, even though the
is sent to both.

>i've tried this with direct connections, and also by sending the message=
>send/receive objects (which is what i'd ultimately like to do, as it kee=
>things neater). when i try using send/receive, nothing happens at all.

I just tried using a send/receive, and got the same behaviour (in that on=
the first patcher in line got the changes).  But at least it worked for o=
patcher :-)

I would try putting the messages in the destination patchers, so that eac=
patcher has its own window messages, and banging them remotely via

Stephen Kay


End of MAX Digest - 9 Feb 1999 to 10 Feb 1999 (#1999-49)