Subject: MAX Digest - 1 Feb 1999 to 2 Feb 1999 (#1999-39)
Date: Wed, 3 Feb 1999 00:00:03 -0500
From: Automatic digest processor 
Reply-To: MAX - Interactive Music/Multimedia Standard Environments
To: Recipients of MAX digests 

There are 12 messages totalling 400 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Possible bug in pow~?
  2. HUMA project, berlin
  3. Apololgies
  4. shepard tones
  5. tap in/out versus rec/play buffer
  6. MSP recording to disk yields audible pops and clicks
  7. Copyright of MAX Patches and Objects (2)
  8. real time counter ranging (2)
  9. video
 10. USB Mac MIDI solution


Date:    Tue, 2 Feb 1999 10:30:42 +0100
From:    Manuel Poletti 
Subject: Re: Possible bug in pow~?

I confirm the problem; same results in same conditions with same versions -
cute debugging patch!


>I'm using Max 3.5.9 and MSP 1.5.1. I've checked to ensure that I have
>only one copy of the pow~ external installed (last changed 0n 08 Jun
>1998 23:19).


Date:    Tue, 2 Feb 1999 12:57:54 +0100
From:    Peter Castine 
Subject: Re: HUMA project, berlin


Deine Post las ich mit Interesse zun=E4chst weil die Adresse auffiel: meine=

erste Wohnung in Berlin war im Leuschnerdamm, und wenn mich nicht alles
t=E4uscht, war es Haus 19 (Hinterhof -- es waren damals eigentlich
Fabriketagen). Das war vor sehr langer Zeit, vielleicht t=E4usche ich mich
mit der Hausnummer. Aber zur Sache...

Apropos Maxprogrammierung: ja, ich kann's und habe auch Interesse das
weiter zu machen. Einige meiner Arbeiten sind in der Maxgemeinde
allgemein bekannt: die Litter Collection (Max Patchers), QKSend und
Polygon (external objects), etc. Infos dazu auf meine WWW-Site (hier:

Wenn Ihr interessiert seit, sende ich Euch gerne Lebenslauf, usw.

Da ich immer noch in Berlin lebe, w=E4re das logistische einer
Zusammenarbeit unproblematisch. Ich w=FCrde mich freuen, wenn wir uns in
einem pers=F6nlichen Gespr=E4ch n=E4her kennenlernen k=F6nnten.



PS: Telefon: 431 0850 oder 4367 1056. Fax: 4367 1058. E-mail habt Ihr


Date:    Tue, 2 Feb 1999 13:03:42 +0100
From:    Peter Castine 
Subject: Apololgies

Apologies to all and sundry for the German message to the list. As the
allemanophones will readily recognize, it was intended elsewhere. Boy, do
I feel stoopid.




Date:    Tue, 2 Feb 1999 15:19:42 +0000
From:    david stevens 
Subject: shepard tones

hi all,

does anyone have a ready-made simple shepard tone generator?

or can anyone tell me what i need to know to go about making one?




Date:    Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:19:51 +0000
From:    david stevens 
Subject: tap in/out versus rec/play buffer

hi all,

would anyone be kind enough to offer any opinions on the pros and cons of
infinite loops using either a tapin/tapout combination or a
record~/buffer~/groove~ combination (with around 99% feedback).

in other words, i'm recording audio into a black box that endlessly loops
whatever you put into it. (the kind of thing that LiSa basically does).

the question is, what's the best combination to put in the box? what kind of
things might i be able to do with one combination, but not the other? for
instance, i can put the groove~ object into "reverse" (which i can't with
tapout~), tho' i tend to get clicks at the loop points when i do that.

also, how do i actually make use of the loop sync output from record~?
no info in the help file).




Date:    Tue, 2 Feb 1999 12:40:37 -0500
From:    Philip Galanter 
Subject: MSP recording to disk yields audible pops and clicks

I have a patch that uses about 30% of the available cycles on my 266 Mhz G3
at home.  I am not using a sound card, just the built in hardware fed to
some powered near field monitors.  The patch includes the record to disk
object (sfrecord~) which I can turn on and off.

When the patch is not recording to disk it works just fine.  When it is
recording to disk I get tiny pops and clicks along with the expected signal
in both the audio out and the soundfile.  The distortions are unpredictable
and infrequent, maybe one every 15-20 seconds.  I've put Max into
Overdrive, turned off Appletalk, and the Mac in question is not on a

Before I start experimenting with extensions and the like, does anyone have
experience with similar problems and/or know of workarounds to try?

Thanks! Phil

Philip Galanter         New York University     phone:     212-998-3041
Associate Director      251 Mercer                fax:     212-995-4120
for Arts Technology     New York, NY 10012   internet:

     N Y U   A c a d e m i c   C o m p u t i n g   F a c i l i t y

Info, resources, art gallery, and more...


Date:    Tue, 2 Feb 1999 20:07:14 +0000
From:    Thorsten 
Subject: Copyright of MAX Patches and Objects

Dear MAxers!
What is the right behavior on using Patches and Objects (MAX and MSP)
from other People in own Projects? (NON COMMERCIAL)
Is there a FAQ or a Guideline?


Date:    Tue, 2 Feb 1999 21:43:05 +0100
From:    Roland Cahen & Ruth Sefton-Green 
Subject: real time counter ranging

I suppose this ? have been discussed before but I can't find the topics -
How can change the range of the counter in real time ?
this patch shows the problem.
Of course you can change only the maxi
,add an offset and compare it with the maximum,
but have you found a simpler way ?

example of the real time ranging the counter problem :
max v2;
#N vpatcher 50 40 712 364;
#P number 212 75 35 9 0 0 0 3;
#P message 490 87 42 196617 max \$1;
#P number 313 70 35 9 0 0 0 3;
#P message 313 86 35 196617 min \$1;
#P number 490 71 35 9 0 0 0 3;
#P newex 173 120 81 196617 counter 0 0 127;
#P number 128 161 35 9 0 0 0 3;
#P user rslider 313 38 187 25 128 1 0 0;
#P newex 173 140 29 196617 ascii;
#P newex 173 159 60 196617 prepend set;
#P message 173 178 50 852004 <;
#P newex 173 93 50 196617 metro 50;
#P toggle 173 72 15 0;
#P connect 7 0 6 0;
#P connect 7 0 4 0;
#P connect 4 0 3 0;
#P connect 3 0 2 0;
#P connect 1 0 7 0;
#P connect 0 0 1 0;
#P connect 12 0 1 1;
#P connect 5 0 10 0;
#P connect 5 1 8 0;
#P connect 8 0 11 0;
#P connect 11 0 7 0;
#P connect 10 0 9 0;
#P connect 9 0 7 0;
#P pop;

Roland Cahen


Date:    Tue, 2 Feb 1999 22:09:47 +0100
From:    Jeffrey Burns 
Subject: video

>        In response to David Crandall's questions about MAX in the
>classroom, you
>have answered your inquiry with two words; Visual Arts.  I teach at UC
>Santa Cruz and the San Francisco Art Institute.  I am responsible for
>programming courses and curriculum.  I have found it very difficult to
>attempt to teach C/C++ or Java to visual art students, but easier to use
>MAX.  I believe it is the visual aspect of MAX that makes the difference.
>Also, the debugging is easier and there are simple things that can be done
>that give immediate results.
>        Most of my students are beginning undergraduates.  They come with
>expectation that they will be taught how to scan and manipulate images with
> Photoshop.  The see the computer as a tool and not a medium.  There is
>much resistance to learning how to program.  My FIRM belief is that artists
>who use technology MUST know how the technology works and how to program.
>Not a popular position in visual art departments.  MAX has been my best
>        At UCSC we introduced students to Java as a way of getting them to
>program.  The students complained that it took too much time to learn and
>develop projects.  With MAX there is immediate feed back and visual cues to
>problems in the program.  This helps in dealing with students'
>frustrations.  Also, given that we are on a quarter system, students can at
>least get an interface together in ten weeks.
>        My major criticism of MAX for visual art is that it doesn't handle
>graphics and video well.  Manipulating and layering graphics is a bit
>awkward.  The presentation of video and graphics still requires some window
>around it.  Most of my students still think Director is the answer, but
>most also think of interactivity as CD-ROMS not installation.  I personally
>think CD-ROMS are silly and cheap looking, mostly because of Director.  I
>also don't think CD-ROM work is particularly interesting.
>        For more editorial comments and suggestions, you can email me
>Elliot Anderson

Well, giving students Max when they expect to learn scanning and to
manipulate Photoshop may be a bit of a shock, but as for multimedia
performance, I agree that "maxing is happiness".

What bugs me is all the batting that Max has had to take on its video
capabilities. I think it would be good idea to compile a list of exactly
what people think that Max should do video-wise, so someone can start
sorting out the work. (David Rockeby's movieplus object already contains
several great features in this regard.)

Let me start the list:

1. Support of firewire hardware in cooperation with future upgrades of

2. Layering of multiple movies in one window with use of transparency and
alpha channels.

3. Suppport of X<>pose plugins or, better, use of various new objects
objects to do video modification.

4. Recording, buffering and playback.

5. All other features of Image/ine, but working 10x faster!-)

6. Knocking off the title bar of a movie window by means of a 5th argument,
just as in graphics windows.

7. Clarity on what codecs to use and when.

8. As for graphics, perhaps it would be nice to get quickdraw in the same
window where the movies play. Then we could use a set of painting externals.

Is this too much to ask? Maybe Max would become an external of the program
that did all this? Perhaps there should be a video/graphics sequel to MSP?

Jeff Burns


Date:    Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:09:49 -0500
From:    Stephen Kay 
Subject: real time counter ranging

>How can change the range of the counter in real time ?

I believe that you can do something like this with
the 'autocount' object, which I believe is by
Panaiotis (someone correct me if I'm wrong), and
available at the IRCAM ftp site.

Stephen Kay


Date:    Tue, 2 Feb 1999 17:09:46 -0500
From:    Stephen Kay 
Subject: Copyright of MAX Patches and Objects

>What is the right behavior on using Patches and Objects (MAX and MSP)
>from other People in own Projects? (NON COMMERCIAL)
>Is there a FAQ or a Guideline?

I believe you must consult the authors or their included documentation,
as each case may be different.  It's kind of like freeware/shareware.
Most people that release public domain max objects intend for them to
be freely used, in either commercial or non-commercial projects.
Speaking for myself, the public domain objects of my own that are
available for free on my web site (below) can be used in such a fashion.

On the other hand, I *sell* a collection of Max objects, and these
are *not* public domain.  So they can only be used in patchers and
applications according to the terms of the license.

When in doubt, you should contact the author(s) of the objects in
question if no documentation has been provided concerning use of
the objects.  At least if you wish to avoid potentially embarrassing
or annoying problems later on.

Stephen Kay
The MegaMAX Collection: =
Free Max objects!:


Date:    Sun, 31 Jan 1999 01:23:16 -0500
From:    Jeff Mann 
Subject: Re: USB Mac MIDI solution

>> Apparently, Griffin will be releasing the "G Port" ...
> Opcode has just announced new USB hardware ...

Oh sure, it's all "coming soon".

Ok, *I* am announcing a new product for the blue G3! It has SCSI for
your CD burner, a floppy drive that works with Max keydisks, and serial
ports that work with the modem you already have and the printer you
already have and the localtalk network you already have and the MIDI
interface you already have. Let's see, you're gonna save $100 on a SCSI
card, $150(?) on a floppy, $100 on a modem, $400 on a printer (or $1000
if its a laser), $200 on a USB MIDI interface... maybe $1000-$2000

And it's only gonna cost fifty bucks!

It's called the G-Spot! Coming Soon!!

Or not.

In the meantime, you could buy a 266 desktop real cheap and be very
Jeff Mann - Information Consumer ___O___O__= -- > ||
Visit the Art & Robotics Group site:


End of MAX Digest - 1 Feb 1999 to 2 Feb 1999 (#1999-39)