Subject: MAX Digest - 25 Jan 1999 to 26 Jan 1999 - Special issue (#1999-31)
Date: Tue, 26 Jan 1999 18:46:59 -0500
From: Automatic digest processor 
Reply-To: MAX - Interactive Music/Multimedia Standard Environments
     
To: Recipients of MAX digests 

There are 18 messages totalling 713 lines in this issue.

Topics in this special issue:

  1. various remarks
  2. Re Max & PC
  3. Fullscreen + Quicktime = Crash... why? (2)
  4. COMPUTER MUSIC CONTROVERSY #2 (2)
  5. Max and the PC
  6. MAX Digest - 25 Jan 1999 (#1999-30)
  7. ......
  8. note on staff
  9. .......
 10. serial object with PB's internal modem
 11. Let a Hundred Flowers Bloom
 12. MAX and MOTU
 13. MAXpatchers in Browser + MPEG + Buz
 14. I'm back & vote results
 15. Netscape plug-in
 16. MAX Digest - 23 Jan 1999 to 24 Jan 1999 (#1999-28)

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 25 Jan 1999 22:02:21 -0800
From:    David Zicarelli 
Subject: various remarks

...combined in one message to save time. Sorry to violate the
single subject rule.

1. I'm pretty certain that the revised movie object that
saves its screen coordinates has been shipping with Max
for a while. If not, it will certainly be with the new
Max update I'm promising for any day now.

2. Note also that the movie object can take additional arguments
to specify where you want it on the screen, although these
arguments are overridden by the location of the window
when you save the patcher.

3. The crash with imovie and fullscreen has been noted many times
before. The workaround is to make your window fullscreen
and leave it that way, then put the imovie object in the
window. imovie can't deal with the replacement of its window
with another one, which is what happens when a patcher is
fullscreened.

4. How can you tell if you have the most recent version of MSP?
Why not download one of my painstakingly constructed updaters
to the latest version.

5. I wrote a Netscape plug-in for a Max a long time ago. It's
pretty cool, but I don't sense that browser plug-ins are generating
the excitement they used to, so I haven't really done anything
with it. Instead, I used what I learned to make Max into
a VST plug-in, which in contrast to the Netscape plug-in, has
an immediate and obvious use. I hope you'll be convinced of this
when pluggo ships.

6. The reasons for porting Max to Windows and BeOS are numerous. Some of
them include finding someone who was willing to do it, available
financing, and cooperation from Opcode. I'm not a big fan of
Microsoft, and our experience so far with their development tools
and documentation has confirmed everything I suspected.

Another reason is that the new Intel "Katmai" chips are reported to
have astonishing DSP power and I wanted to be able to take advantage
of them.

(By the way, Be will be having some kind of hotel suite near
the NAMM show this coming weekend, and, assuming they can set it up,
they may be showing an extremely preliminary version of Max.)

David Z.

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 26 Jan 1999 17:26:03 +1100
From:    A Scott 
Subject: Re Max & PC

jMax for Linux is in the works from IRCAM. The SGI port was released some
weeks ago. I have not yet stuck it onto our O2 - still tracking down the
necessary java components & hav too many other urgent jobs.

It will be interesting to see the divergent paths the Mac & IRCAM versions
have taken.

look at: http://www.ircam.fr/equipes/temps-reel/jmax/

Ash

Ashley Scott
Studio Manager,
Sydney Conservatorium of Music,
University of Sydney
109 Pitt St.
Sydney, NSW 2000
ph. 61 2 92303766
fax 61 2 9230 3747
ascott@mail.usyd.edu.au

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 26 Jan 1999 01:02:59 -0600
From:    Ken Gregory 
Subject: Re: Fullscreen + Quicktime = Crash... why?

imovie continued.....  I should clarify my previously hasty post.

Why?

The imovie object,
 remembers where it is placed in the Max patcher window,
 remembers the size you last dragged it to,
 and remembers the file name of the QT movie loaded into it.( that is if
only   one QT movie is used)

If you tailor your Max patcher window to the size of the QT movie and
rezized imovie object you're using, the patcher will remember it all when
saved. This can be rather fiddly but can work well. You will need to come
up with some kind of strategy for editing though.   You can place a
receive object in the movie patch and use messages sent via send objects
from another patch to control the movie. Make sure your movie patch loads
last when the project is opened. You can use pcontrol to do this. Delaying
the pcontol load message helps to avoid crashes during the load.

>
>An alternative is to patch the movie object. You've got the source code.
>It's not hard to change the hard-wired size & position to another
>hard-wired size & position.
>
>Making movie movable & sizeable and adding  other bells & whistles is
>more work.
>

A lot of folks using Max, myself included, don't have the programming chops
to pull this off. We have to use the objects the way they are. I don't
consider this as a negative. I like the challenge of making it work with
the tools on hand rather than wishing I had something else.

And, if fixing the movie object is not hard, why haven't some of the more
experienced C programmers on this list fixed it up and shared it ( Our
Hero!). We've been talking about this for awhile, if not a couple of years.

My 2 cents....

Happy Day!

ken

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 26 Jan 1999 02:27:36 +0000
From:    Mathius Shadow Sky 
Subject: COMPUTER MUSIC CONTROVERSY #2

I thought that MAX community was more intelligent than for example
Cubase community! This MAX list is just for patch problems? Artists what
are you doing? Just resolve your software problems? What's beyond? Are
you just doing your job without thinking what are you doing? Nobody
understood my Computer Music Controversy? My English was understandable?
Do I have to re-send the text with explanation?

This is the re-text with no "air" and without explanation:

"ENOUGH, ENOUGH:
For Whom , for WHICH MUSIC MAKERS ? is computer music ?
For music makers living with the minimum outside Western rich countries
or even inside ?
What is the purpose of the Western artist ? To fit his civilization ?
Why do you make music with so expensive computer tools ?
To follow the fashion, and to feed the Capitalist System i.e the
inegality among people on our planet ?
Some people eat every day
Some people don't
What is the role of the artist in the society ?
To decorate the "beauty" of our Western political and economical system
?
What became of the independency of the artist ?
Have they become scared of the poverty ?
How can an economical system control the creativity of the artist ? How
can you accept it ?
Aren't you shame ?
This situation makes me really upset !
A permanent vomiting invasion of equipment that follows the rule of our
Economic System through buying solicitation. Cul de pute !
You spend more your time to decipher softwares, repair crashed system
than making music.
Are you really making music for people ?
Without following the false and controlled Economic Market rules ?
Who is free [to create]? the computer Artist ? Who build computers ?
What is the price [not cash] to lose our time ?
These TOYS are supposed to be for artists !
Which experimental artist is enough blind to continuously upgrade
his/her TOYS ?
COMPUTER MUSIC IS THE OFFICIAL ART OF THE WESTERN CIVILIZATION.
Who cares about programming in music ?
This is the present of our future Western music ?
Aren't you shame ?
Experimental Music ?
What a laugh !
What a lie to ourself...
Computer music is the result of a privilege !
And a fabulous trap for naive people !
Who cares how music is made if it is boring [or exciting]?
Music makers who don't know how to make music.
Enough
Stop
Too much
One hides itself behind technique activities, fuck!  What an easy way
[of creativity].
WHERE IS MUSIC ? [than programming softwares?]"

Mathius Shadow-Sky
Le Centre De La Bombe
http://members.tripod.com/~centre_bombe/

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 26 Jan 1999 09:02:57 +0100
From:    Mats Claesson 
Subject: Re: Max and the PC

--============_-1294784715==_ma============
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Elliot Anderson wrote:

<       Instead of NT, how about Max Linux?

I hope not. Linux are for the few only and we want Max to be spread don't
we? NT seams to be accepted as a more rubust standard for audio......(?)
--============_-1294784715==_ma============
Content-Type: text/enriched; charset="us-ascii"

Elliot Anderson wrote:

<<       Instead of NT, how about Max Linux?

I hope not. Linux are for the few only and we want Max to be spread
don't we? NT seams to be accepted as a more rubust standard for
audio......(?)

--============_-1294784715==_ma============--

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 26 Jan 1999 20:04:04 +1100
From:    Garth Paine 
Subject: Re: MAX Digest - 25 Jan 1999 (#1999-30)

Dear Chris,

I would like to change my subscription to the MAX List to individual
messages, however I am not seen by the list as subscribed,and hence can't
change anything.

Please help - thanks

Cheers,

Garth

See information about my new immersive interactive sound installations
http://creativeaccess.com.au/~garth/

,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.
. Composer, Sound Designer
.. Interactives Designer
... Interactive Installation Artist
.... Exhibition Consultant
.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 26 Jan 1999 10:24:37 +0000
From:    the hafler trio 
Subject: ......

>Johnny DeKam 

Johnny DeKam - du = perfa [qu!ntessent!al] kap!tal!zt

>In the meantime, I may have figured out the next best thing...

human!t! -1  d!zkovrd pr!or 2 1 perfa kap!tal!zt
ma!z unl!ke du revolt!ng objekt du !t waznt
foloud b!

>I propose that anyone can try this and make MAX patches download and open
up
>instantly on the web.  One could even have a composition start on load
bang.
>I'm not making up the rules or anything, just proposing a tighter web
>integration with max -- so if you post patches on the web, consider using
>the .max extension, and if you come across a *.max extension, now you know
>why.

Johnny DeKam = m!krozoFt = 1 revolt!ng objekt

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 26 Jan 1999 10:25:06 +0000
From:    the hafler trio 
Subject: note on staff

>>Does anyone know of the existence of a patcher/object that can display
>>noteheads on a staff when given some input like midi note numbers? Or if
>>not something that could be somewhat readily modified?

ma! w!sh 2 z r!chard dudas'z note abztrakt!on

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 26 Jan 1999 10:25:59 +0000
From:    the hafler trio 
Subject: .......

> PD, Max's clone (should I say that?)

 approx. apple m!krozoft.z klone (should I say that?)

-
-
-

>It's just not as robust.

+

> I have to agree with the desire for Max on a PC.  PC's are much cheaper
>all around, cheaper memory, components, upgrades, etc.

= komput

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 26 Jan 1999 13:09:14 +0100
From:    Peter Castine 
Subject: Re: Fullscreen + Quicktime = Crash... why?

I wrote:
>>An alternative is to patch the movie object. You've got the source code.
>>It's not hard to change the hard-wired size & position to another
>>hard-wired size & position.

On around 26-1-99 8:02, Ken Gregory responded:

>A lot of folks using Max, myself included, don't have the programming chops
>to pull this off. We have to use the objects the way they are.

Fair enough. But a lot of folks do have the chops for the above; I just
wanted to post a reminder that it might be an option.

later:
>And, if fixing the movie object is not hard, why haven't some of the more
>experienced C programmers on this list fixed it up and shared it ( Our
>Hero!). We've been talking about this for awhile, if not a couple of years.

Returning to what I had written:
>>Making movie movable & sizeable and adding  other bells & whistles is
>>more work.

I thought that was clear enough. One more time: replacing one set of
hard-wired coordinates with another set of hard-wired coordinates is not
much work (alas, one set of hard-wired coordinates is only likely to make
one person happy). Replacing hard-wired coordinates with the
functionality of movability, sizeability, recollection of where the
window was placed on saving, user-selectable window type, etc., etc. is a
different matter. But, looking at David Z.'s most recent _Sammelaussage_
there is an improved version of movie out that addresses at least a
portion of the issues.

Cheers,

Peter

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 26 Jan 1999 13:09:12 +0100
From:    Peter Castine 
Subject: Re: COMPUTER MUSIC CONTROVERSY #2

On around 26-1-99 3:27, Mathius Shadow Sky said something like:

>I thought that MAX community was more intelligent than for example
>Cubase community!

I'm not sure why one should necessarily assume as much.

Mathius has asked a number of questions, all of which are valid (or can
be in a given context). In the context of nothing but the questions one
senses a defiance of attitude, a questioning of the very validity of
using computers to make music that the questioner should not really be
surprised that the response has been slim. (Or, was this nothing but
flame bait?)

Since Mathius has reiterated his questions I will address one of his
points (but only one for now).

>Some people eat every day
>Some people don't

"For the poor will always be with you." (Matthew XXVI and Mark XIV)

I'll up the ante: "And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars."
(Matthew XXIV and Mark XIII)

It's not my desire to encourage complacency about poverty, nor
starvation, nor the calamaties of wars, nor diseases, nor any of the
other pressing issues on our planet. But, returning to the Old Testament:
"For everything there is a season, and a time for every matter under
heaven." (Ecclesiastes III) And there is, despite the wars and hunger and
dying, a time to make music.

Those of us here choose to do so with the aid of modern technology.
Nothing new in that--musicians have been taking advantage of (what at the
time is) modern technological developments for millenia.

That's all for today. I've been reminded that I've been remiss in some of
my responsibilities. Is Chris Koenigsberg's computer music aesthetics
list still running? Might be a more appropriate place for discussion of
Mathius=B9 questions in their entirety.

Peter

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 26 Jan 1999 23:41:31 +0900
From:    sako 
Subject: serial object with PB's internal modem

Hi Maxes,

Is it possible to use serial object to access PowerBook G3's internal modem
from inside?
And is it also possible to get this internal modem's sound from adc~?

I would like to make patch which calls automatically on some specific
telephone numbers via PB's internal modem and sysnthesizes these telephone
voices.
Of course, I know this is possible by using external modem, but I want to do
so without any other devices than PB itself.

Thank you

nobuyasu sakonda

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 26 Jan 1999 09:53:42 -0500
From:    "one Cointreau, on ice...." 
Subject: Let a Hundred Flowers Bloom

>>Date:    Sun, 24 Jan 1999 14:06:51 -0800
>>From:    Elliot Anderson 
>>Subject: 
>>
>>        I would like to ask a question of the list.  Can we discern the
>>rant from serious questioning and discourse?

What constitutes a rant? Hmmm.

Well, it's gotta be reductive (everything is expressible as a form of
my personal epistemic hobbyhorse) and extensible (everything *can* be
expressed as a form of my personal epistemic hobbyhorse, if I so desire).
A good rant would, in my view, appeal to some "higher good" or "higher
court" of appeal (my deity Ubizmo is so powerful and important that you
don't have the moral right to judge my behaviour) rather than the more
simple matters of communal intersubjectivity whenever possible. The
well-dressed ranter should leave any listener with the overwhelming notion
that the answer to any given question is always secondary to the epistemic
hobbyhorse (no answer is sufficient unless it provides an opportunity to
rage against the heathen/medical establisment/etc.). Of course, some
snappy stylization (SCREAMING CAPS! lots of punctuation!!!!!!!!!! mIxEd
CaSe TyPoGrApHy) always helps.

Oh yeah - you're not serious about discourse unless you're unwilling to
depart from the conventions of discourse which your epistemic hobbyhorse
requires. The unwashed masses will learn on YOUR terms.

If rants are helpful, perhaps the greatest service we could provide would
be to fill the group with other kinds of ranting. After all, look at all
the instructive things (cough) which have emerged from a single ideologue
with streamediting capabilities and a case of anaphoristic logorrhea. I'll
bet the list would really be great if we added some first-rate commentators
on
Shi'ite law (copyright protection DESECRATES THE MEMORY OF THE CALIPH ALI!
THE
TWELFTH IMAM DEMANDS A WINDOWS PORT!!!!) or Jainist logic (where are those
Jainist MAX objects, anyway?) or our old friends on the Religious Right.
While a few lost and disconnected sould might whinge about being unable to
ask simple questions or share common methods of work without being lectured
on their continuing addiction to the Realm of Shapes and Features (whoops!
I nearly forgot the Neo-Confucians!) and the Pinyin character substitution
algorithms, we would surely all be better off. And I don't mean the
occasional and measured form. I mean regular, tedious, full-bore ranting
interrupted by
sanctimonious rationalization. Let's go for it!!!! Those question and answer
folks are all losers, anyway - how can ANYONE possibly either learn MAX
or MSP or do anything even slightly interesting with it UNTIL they're done
crafting their personae or manifestos? The nerve of some people....

And finally, a good ranter NEVER NEVER NEVER ends a posting by saying, "Your
mileage may vary."

YMMV,
Gregory

|=============== Artesyn Communication Products, Inc. ================|
|                                                                     |
| Gregory Taylor                    Email: Greg.Taylor@cp.artesyn.com |
| Marketing Communications Manager  Phone: 608-831-5500               |
| 8310 Excelsior Drive              Fax:   608-831-4249               |
| Madison, WI 53717-1935                                              |
|=====================================================================|
|    Hoi, digerati! Wil je even surfen?       www.artesyn.com/cp      |
|=====================================================================|

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 26 Jan 1999 12:25:38 CST
From:    Bill Meadows 
Subject: MAX and MOTU

Is anyone sucessfully running both MAX and Digital Performer at the
same time? I can launch both, but when I switch from MAX to DP, the
system hangs. I imagine it has to do with running both FreeMIDI and
OMS at the same time, but I don't know if there is a fix. (MOTU says
they are going to make DP OMS savvy someday...)

Any suggestions?

Bill Meadows

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 26 Jan 1999 10:37:21 -0800
From:    Jim Wood 
Subject: Re: MAXpatchers in Browser + MPEG + Buz

hello
boring questions about Max Im afraid

1. Johnny DeKam mentioned Max patchers in a browser
window, how does this work? Maybe he might show us on
unMax site? P>S Node = good site
 Non permission to vomit

2. Would it be possible to make an object to play MPEG3
audio in MAX. Anyone done this/ thought of it.

3. Iomega BUz, is it compatible with MAX/msp as sound
input, or Quictime object as video in/out?? Any
suggestions (Johnny DeKam again?)

4. Whats the fucks  the hafler trio doing on this
list, I thought they were dead. back to the graves

Jim

_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 26 Jan 1999 13:46:46 -0500
From:    Christopher Murtagh 
Subject: I'm back & vote results

Greetings MAXers,

I have returned from my winter adventures, and I have just started to sift
through my 643 new email messages. If you sent me a private note, and you
dont get a reply within the next 4 days, please send it again as it might
have gotten trashed by mistake.

Regarding the vote:

The unofficial* results are as follows:

N Votes  -  218
Y votes  -   94
Abstain  -    5

For the pictorially oriented, there is an Excel pie-chart showing this at
http://www.music.mcgill.ca/max/vote.html

*by unofficial, I mean that there could have been a couple of votes that
were miscounted/etc. The official number will be posted after I have
posted the ballot numbers and votes (later this week).

This means that there was a clear majority that voted to no longer allow
antiorp to post to the MAX list (68.8%). So, from today on, unless there
is a serious miscount (not likely) antiorp shall be blocked from posting
to the MAX list. Anyone who wishes to protest, complain, etc. you can do
so to me, and if you feel your concerns are not addressed properly, I
shall give more info on who to contact higher up the chain of command.

So, without further ado, I expect to no longer hear anything regarding
antiorp, this vote, b!t revolutions, krapmatter etc. in tomorrows digest,
or anytime after. People posting anything regarding this to the list shall
first be warned, then booted (removed, digitally murdered, whatever).
Anyone spamming the list with long manifestos shall be removed without
warning. The MAX list shall return to MAX related subjects. If anyone
feels that this is not acceptable, they are free to leave the list and
start another one elsewhere.

Sincerely,

Christopher Murtagh
MAX listserv owner / digital murderer to some
http://www.music.mcgill.ca/max

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 27 Jan 1999 09:16:46 +1100
From:    Garth Paine 
Subject: Netscape plug-in

>Date:    Mon, 25 Jan 1999 22:02:21 -0800
>From:    David Zicarelli 
>Subject: various remarks
---
>5. I wrote a Netscape plug-in for a Max a long time ago. It's
>pretty cool, but I don't sense that browser plug-ins are generating
>the excitement they used to, so I haven't really done anything
>with it. Instead, I used what I learned to make Max into
>a VST plug-in, which in contrast to the Netscape plug-in, has
>an immediate and obvious use. I hope you'll be convinced of this
>when pluggo ships.
---

Hi David,

I would really love to have a look at the Netscape plug-in.  One of the
things I am nvestigating at the moment is to be able to gather data about
the 'X', 'Y' co-ordinates of someone on a brouser.  I want to be able to
use the co-ordinates in conjunction with VNS to allow realtime input from
people on the www to composition of interactive dance works - is this
possible with the pulug-in - if not, any suggestions from your wealth of
experience as to how I would go about achieving this idea?

Cheers,

Garth

See information about my new immersive interactive sound installations
http://creativeaccess.com.au/~garth/

,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.
. Composer, Sound Designer
.. Interactives Designer
... Interactive Installation Artist
.... Exhibition Consultant
.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 25 Jan 1999 23:31:14 -0000
From:    Nick Rothwell 
Subject: Re: MAX Digest - 23 Jan 1999 to 24 Jan 1999 (#1999-28)

> >Nick Rothwell circa 1918

NOW what?

> Personally, I don't mind antiorp's messages at all. Sometimes they're
> enlightening, sometimes they're vacuous, but he's clearly an
> intelligent and creative artist, making work to a dedicated and
> deeply-held agenda, which puts him in enough of a minority here that
> I'm quite relaxed about cutting him some slack.

I've changed my mind.

--
        Nick Rothwell, CASSIEL              contemporary dance projects
        http://www.cassiel.com              music synthesis and control

  You've read the rant, now buy the album:
http://www.cassiel.com/listenmove/

------------------------------

End of MAX Digest - 25 Jan 1999 to 26 Jan 1999 - Special issue (#1999-31)
*************************************************************************