Subject: MAX Digest - 23 Jan 1999 to 24 Jan 1999 (#1999-28)
Date: Mon, 25 Jan 1999 00:00:00 -0500
From: Automatic digest processor 
Reply-To: MAX - Interactive Music/Multimedia Standard Environments
     
To: Recipients of MAX digests 

There are 13 messages totalling 600 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. update
  2. Repetition teaches (2)
  3. QKSend & Co
  4. audio lockup(miraculous cure) + another question
  5. flou ov t!+me
  6. ...
  7. ..
  8. Repetition teaches...
  9. Presets and popups
 10. running status
 11. 
 12. Fullscreen + Quicktime = Crash... why?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 23 Jan 1999 21:53:16 -0800
From:    dudas 
Subject: update

I don't suppose anyone on this list really cares about anything to do with
Max anymore, but I thought I'd mention that I fixed a couple of problems
with my max externals and uploaded a new version of the collection to the
incoming basket of the ear-scam ftp.
(ftp.ircam.fr/pub/forumnet/max/incoming/DudasTools1.4FAT.sea.bin)
This will eventually move to the FAT/utilities/ directory.

The updates and fixes include:
 a new wacom object that's compatible with the new INTUOS tablets
     now it really does work with 2 transducers like it's supposed to
 listfunnel now works with lists of any size
 fileout version 2.1  - with some new feature I added for Zoron last year
     (I don't remember what)

By the way, Stephen,  I hope you typed all that out by hand, I'd hate to
think that maybe you actually used copy and paste...  that's cheating, you
know.

-Xoaz

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 24 Jan 1999 02:29:15 +0000
From:    Carlton Joseph Wilkinson 
Subject: Re: Repetition teaches

You're not a very good bully, Stephen, no matter how hard you try. And
the attempt always seems to seriously undermine your point.

>This a list about max.

>        It's not a forum for people with too much time on their
 >       hands to post whatever garbage they feel like.

>This a list about max.

>        !tz nOt a hang-0uT 4 proTo-punK suuDough-!ntel ektualz.

>This a list about max.
>This a list about max.
>This a list about max.
>This a list about max.

>May be with enough repetition, you children will understand.

>This a list about max.
>This a list about max.
>This a list about max.
>This a list about max.
>This a list about max.
>This a list about max.

--Carlton

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 24 Jan 1999 10:06:01 +0100
From:    Peter Castine 
Subject: Re: QKSend & Co

On around 24-1-99 1:35, Bob Falesch said something like:

>? You don't have the right compiler:-)

My compiler's fine. You wanna buy me a Wintel box so I can test the port?

FreeWare products (like most of the Max externals floating around) are
acts of love. Porting to Wintel is not an act of love. And the economics
of it don't make sense. How many QKSend licenses would I have to sell (at
$0.00 a pop) to pay for a new computer?

Frankly, I'm still asking myself about the WinNT business "Why bother?"
If you want a cheap HTTP server, use Linux. If you want to make music &
multimedia, get a Mac. I've not seen any compelling reason to want to
have Windos. But someone obviously hopes to earn a chunk of change with
Max on Win-something-or-another.

Cheers,

Peter

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 24 Jan 1999 02:05:15 -0800
From:    David Zicarelli 
Subject: Re: audio lockup(miraculous cure) + another question

Michael Sweet  writes about problems involving
windows that stop redrawing. I fixed a bug in the scope~ object
in MSP 1.0 release 5.1 that some of you may have seen in which,
especially in heavy CPU conditions or with multiple scope~
objects on the screen, the objects stop redrawing. This was due
to an erroneous programming technique in which I attempted to
set a qelem directly from the audio perform routine. This is
a no-no. It could be that something like this is being done
in another object (although I can't find any such examples
in objects I wrote). The solution to this problem is to set
a clock so that the qelem is set inside a scheduler task. Otherwise,
"critical region" protection is not available and the list of
updating tasks (such as redrawing objects in a window) will
be blown to smithereens. I just wanted to use "smithereens" in
a sentence.

David Stevens writes about resizing a buffer in response to the
length of a delay line. There is a bug in the buffer~ object,
which I have just now noticed, that will cause to at best
not work (and most likely crash) if the "size" message is
sent to it at interrupt level. If you try to resize the buffer~
to a size it can't be ('cause it's out of memory or something), that buffer~
will be marked as invalid and stop working--no audio samples
will be read from it. One possibility is that the attempt
to allocate memory in the size message fails due to being
called at interrupt level, leaving you with an invalid buffer~
that stops any audio signal from being read in the buffer~.

To avoid resizing a buffer~ at interrupt level, put a defer
object between the size message and the buffer~ object.

Of course, this might not be the problem at all. It's typical for
me to expound on something at length that is entirely unrelated
to the condition in question.

David Z.

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 24 Jan 1999 15:09:45 +0000
From:    the hafler trio 
Subject: flou ov t!+me

>Nick Rothwell circa 1918
>
>   I know from experience that if you are TOO different (...)
>   you MAY experience your
> "15 minutes of fame" but invariably , most of what you are trying to
> get accross will be lost or overshadowed by the bizzareness as you
> have experienced by the opposition to your style,

I think this is an over-simplification, musically and otherwise. For
example: it's pretty clear from my dealings with the art
administration here that I'm "too different" for them to deal with. Am
I doing it to be obnoxious? Nope. I'm doing it because I feel there's
something important here that noone has done yet.

I don't think it'll get me 15 minutes of fame. (Often these days,
that's reserved for conformists, not innovators.) More likely, I'll
either achieve some kind of solid but subdued cult status with my
performance project, maybe in five years or so; or I won't.

Personally, I don't mind antiorp's messages at all. Sometimes they're
enlightening, sometimes they're vacuous, but he's clearly an
intelligent and creative artist, making work to a dedicated and
deeply-held agenda, which puts him in enough of a minority here that
I'm quite relaxed about cutting him some slack.

Btw: sorry for deviating from American English; I don't speak it.

--
        Nick Rothwell, CASSIEL            contemporary dance projects
        http://www.cassiel.com            music synthesis and control

        NOTICE - this vessel has triple screws - keep clear of blades

>I don't think it'll get me 15 minutes of fame. (Often these days,
>that's reserved for conformists, not innovators.)
>More likely, I'll
>either achieve some kind of solid but subdued cult status with my
>performance project, maybe in five years or so; or I won't.

dze subm!ss!on ov l!ne 2 1 po!nt.
2 asymetr!kal movementz dzat komb!ne 2 4m 1 blok.
sweep. press.ure.
b.kom!ng ch!ld.b.kom!ng.dze ch!ldhood.memor+e.
b.kom!ng.dze molekular ch!ld.
dze punktuaL zystem. dze ut!l!zat!on ov l!nez.
rema!n beaut!full+e konnektd.
dze s!multaneouz + kont!nouz l!ne.
k!nemat!kx.
memor+e.
punkt.uaL.organ!zat!on.
dze flow.ov t!me.

>Personally, I don't mind antiorp's messages at all. Sometimes they're
>enlightening, sometimes they're vacuous, but he's clearly an
>intelligent and creative artist, making work to a dedicated and
>deeply-held agenda, which puts him in enough of a minority here that
>I'm quite relaxed about cutting him some slack.
>
>Btw: sorry for deviating from American English; I don't speak it.

1 elaboratez on 1 d!dakt!k reprezentat!on but w!th dze a!m ov
mak!ng !t snap. ov send!ng 1 tremor through !t.
he who fabr!katez 1 order opposez !t.
h!ztor+e = kreatd by dzose who oppoze !t.
!nsert ccelf + reshape. != kreatd by pro.vokat!on.

dze melod!k hor!zont = 1 mult!l!near assemblaje. 1 geograph+e
oppozd 2 h!ztor+e. = 1 obl!kue vektor. !n non pulssd t!me.

tr2nzverss.sound.blok.11018.
0f0003.masch!nenkunSt. _||-
http://m9ndfukc.com/propaganda

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 24 Jan 1999 15:10:16 +0000
From:    the hafler trio 
Subject: ...

>  Robert A. Falesch  |  "Happy New Year and a libation to all of you (and
>    http://homepage. |   a cup of machine oil for antiorp!)"
>    interaccess.com  |
>              /~raf  |                            -- 
>-------------------- - --------------------------------------------------
>
>------------------------------

Next Christmas, I'm going to give antiorp a mechanical typewriter, the
slowest and heaviest I can find.

--
        Nick Rothwell, CASSIEL            contemporary dance projects
        http://www.cassiel.com            music synthesis and control

        NOTICE - this vessel has triple screws - keep clear of blades

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 24 Jan 1999 15:10:41 +0000
From:    the hafler trio 
Subject: ..

>Stephen Kay 
>May be with enough repetition, you children will understand.

=cw4t7abs prev!ouzl! t!pd

> 1month oLd humanz show leazt heart rate change when 1patch ov white light
=
> followd by 1-burst ov white noiss at 1-intensity that human adultz rate as
> matchd !n intensit+e but they showed signifikant heart rate change when
dze
> light was followed by 1sound ov
> v.high || v.low intensit+e. !nfantz match !ntensit+e ov stimulation
between
> vision + hearing + respond 2changes !n dze intensit+e ov stimulation
> !m.pinging anywhere on dze v. nervouz humAn zystem.
>

  Fascinating!
I have often said (from my small knowlege of human perception: my progenitor
was a visual psychophysicist )...
humans are just big difference engines. Auto-correlators.
The most basic perceptions: "All the same here"  and "ooo..that's
different".

all give thanks for the different in our lives!

CharlieB

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 24 Jan 1999 08:50:36 -0800
From:    Gene Schwartz 
Subject: Re: Repetition teaches

Stephen Kay writes:

>This is a list about max.
>
>        It's not a list about politics.

But it is not your intention to 'teach'.

>
>This is a list about max.
>
>        It's not a list about artistic struggles.

It is also not a list about what the list is about.

>
>This is a list about max.
>
>        It's not a list about revolution.

stephen kay is a counterrevolutionary.

>
>This a list about max.
>
>        It's not a list about reviews of Schumann or anyone =
>
>        else, unless perhaps they used max.
>

This is a list about Stephen Kay clumsily appropriating antiorpean
techniques to make points that are just as 'off-topic' as antiorps. About
him trying to get antiorp 'democratically' thrown off the list for
violating the rules of the list, while he himself openly flouts them.
Stephen Kay is a hypocrite.

>This a list about max.
>
>        It's not a list about anti-capitalist propaganda.
>

Stephen Kay is a capitalist.

>This a list about max.
>
>        It's not a forum for people with too much time on their
>        hands to post whatever garbage they feel like.
>

Stephen Kay has too much time on his hands.

>This a list about max.
>
>        !tz nOt a hang-0uT 4 proTo-punK suuDough-!ntel ektualz.
>
>This a list about max.
>This a list about max.
>This a list about max.
>This a list about max.
>
>May be with enough repetition, you children will understand.
>
>This a list about max.
>This a list about max.
>This a list about max.
>This a list about max.
>This a list about max.
>This a list about max.
>

starting to get the picture

"I began to add a few things up and realized there was no way I could come
from a little town in Iowa, be eating 2,000 people a year, and nobody said
anything about it"

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 24 Jan 1999 18:14:51 +0100
From:    pure 
Subject: Re: Repetition teaches...

>Date:    Sat, 23 Jan 1999 23:25:22 -0500
>From:    Stephen Kay 
>Subject: Repetition teaches...
>
>This is a list about max.
etc......

are you forwarding a*****p-mails?

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 24 Jan 1999 13:33:40 EST
From:    JohnBrit@AOL.COM
Subject: Re: Presets and popups

In a message dated 1/22/99 21:00:48, you wrote:

<<
however, i still need to know if the menu can be typed into or adjusted in=
 any
way once a patch is locked or in max play.

>>

The patch below allows you to rename any preset. Just click Rename. If you
include a filename for the coll to find when the patch is loaded you could
save the  preset list for future use by sending coll a write message. You
would still have to load the corresponding presets separately which is a p=
ain
in the ass.
Take Stephen Kaye's advice. Use a coll (or better still a collx) to store
presets.
Three points about the patch.
Can't use spaces in preset names (there are ways around this)'
The %s's in the sprintf object must be separated by a hard space (option-
space).
Evaluate Item Text must be checked in the Umenu.
JW.

max v2;
#N vpatcher 171 69 761 666;
#P newex 294 477 26 196617 - 1;
#P message 145 194 13 196617 0;
#P newex 145 87 29 196617 b;
#P newex 310 441 50 196617 t i b l;
#P newex 310 416 50 196617 pack 0 A;
#P newex 310 381 23 196617 i;
#P message 467 102 19 196617 set;
#P newex 333 62 40 196617 t s b;
#P newex 333 165 44 196617 t b s b;
#P message 333 40 41 196617 Rename;
#P message 333 137 50 196617;
#P newex 333 101 129 196617 sprintf open 1 %s=A0%s;
#P newex 164 323 30 196617 + 1;
#N vpreset 4;
#P preset 275 39 47 27;
#P newex 164 219 67 196617 route symbol;
#P message 367 194 29 196617 clear;
#P newex 164 251 76 196617 prepend append;
#P message 164 134 30 196617 dump;
#P newex 145 53 50 196617 loadbang;
#P user umenu 164 291 100 196647 1 64;
#N coll ;
#T flags 1 0;
#T 1 Preset1;
#T 2 Preset2;
#T 3 Preset3;
#T 4 Preset4;
#T 5 Preset5;
#T 6 Preset6;
#T 7 Preset7;
#T 8 Preset8;
#P newobj 164 178 50 196617 coll;
#P fasten 20 0 1 0 299 511 149 511 149 284 169 284;
#P connect 18 0 19 0;
#P connect 18 1 3 0;
#P fasten 19 0 1 0 150 280 169 280;
#P fasten 17 1 3 0 335 550 117 550 117 122 169 122;
#P fasten 17 2 0 0 355 563 92 563 92 159 169 159;
#P fasten 17 0 20 0 315 467 299 467;
#P connect 16 0 17 0;
#P fasten 14 0 10 0 472 127 338 127;
#P connect 11 0 13 0;
#P connect 15 0 16 0;
#P connect 10 0 12 0;
#P fasten 5 0 1 0 372 278 169 278;
#P connect 3 0 0 0;
#P connect 13 0 9 0;
#P fasten 13 1 14 0 368 90 472 90;
#P fasten 12 0 15 0 338 340 315 340;
#P connect 12 1 16 1;
#P connect 12 2 5 0;
#P connect 9 0 10 0;
#P fasten 8 0 7 0 169 359 49 359 49 26 280 26;
#P fasten 8 0 15 1 169 359 328 359;
#P connect 6 0 4 0;
#P connect 4 0 1 0;
#P connect 2 0 18 0;
#P connect 0 0 6 0;
#P fasten 7 2 1 0 316 273 169 273;
#P connect 1 0 8 0;
#P fasten 1 1 9 1 259 323 535 323 535 30 457 30;
#P pop;

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 25 Jan 1999 07:25:45 +1000
From:    David Rodger 
Subject: Re: running status

Peter Elsea wrote:
>Running status-
>I've noticed that my Studio 64xtc uses running status in a really rigorous
>way, giving the effect that after a patch is running, an instrument that is
>just turned on will not play any notes because it is not getting that
>ctritical 0x80. The clue that this is happening is that sending a control
>message or to another channel will make it work. Has anyone experienced
>this with other interfaces?

Is there an option in a control panel?  Surely, Opcode realizes that, as
with many areas of the MIDI spec, not all manufacturers strictly observe
running status?

Regards, David

David Rodger:   Audio Engineering; Pool Operations; Aquatics Training
EMAIL: auricle@alphalink.com.au    WEB: www.alphalink.com.au/~auricle
RESEARCH -- Motion Capture in Music --  farben.latrobe.edu.au/motion/
ADZOHU -- Music and Dance from Ghana -- www.alphalink.com.au/~adzohu/
=====================================================================
"I'm concerned about reproduction above 20kHz, because I want to make
sure I'm not depriving my dog of a complete listening experience when
I leave the stereo on...."                            -- Matt Barstow

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 24 Jan 1999 14:06:51 -0800
From:    Elliot Anderson 
Subject: 

        I would like to ask a question of the list.  Can we discern the rant
from
serious questioning and discourse?  My point is this, the technology that
we all work with is not neutral, if it were it would probably not hold our
interest for very long.  Given this, I believe there is a place for
discussion of issues that are not specifically related to the nuts and
bolts.
        This list is an opportunity for discourse.  We have among us a
collection
of some of the most thoughtful individuals working with new technologies.
I would hate to see a discussion among these individuals stifled by rules
of appropriate speech restricted to technics.  There should be an ongoing
questioning of our medium and motives.  Isn't this what art is and what it
posits?
        However, again we must discern rant from discourse.  I agree what
has been
occurring is opportunistic, that certain individuals are not in dialectic
mode but in solipsistic revery.  This is of course not conducive to the
side band conversation that I believe should be carried.  People often make
statements with questions, as is obvious from the postings of our recent
interlocutor.
        My question is how do we filter fairly?  Which amounts to the
question of
the rules of the culture that takes place here.  Can we come together to
determine what the boundaries of discussion are and how they are inscribed
in filters?  There is both statement and questioning in this posting.  I
hope members of the list can entertain both.

Elliot Anderson

Elliot Anderson
Adjunct Professor, Electronic Media,
Art Department
University of California, Santa Cruz

http://www.sirius.com/~ewanders

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 30 Aug 1956 02:34:24 +0200
From:    Joachim Gossmann 
Subject: Fullscreen + Quicktime = Crash... why?

Hello Maxers!

I have the following problem:

I want to show a fullscreen quicktime with max.
Therefore I created a patcher with a quicktime movie in it, and then
sent the message "fullscreen 1" to a "thispatcher" - object.
Each time I do that, MAX crashes with an "Error 1".
After a short time, the whole machine freezes..
I tried a lot of things, but it just keeps on crashing.
What´s wrong?

Has anybody achieved to display a fullscreen quicktime without the
menubar and window elements visible without crashing the machine?
Is there a workaround?

Thank you for the help,

Joachim

------------------------------

End of MAX Digest - 23 Jan 1999 to 24 Jan 1999 (#1999-28)
*********************************************************