Subject: MAX Digest - 20 Jan 1999 (#1999-22)
Date: Thu, 21 Jan 1999 00:00:04 -0500
From: Automatic digest processor 
Reply-To: MAX - Interactive Music/Multimedia Standard Environments
To: Recipients of MAX digests 

There are 15 messages totalling 535 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Action, Reaction, thanks.
  2. b!te m01 (and a question)
  3. Patcher *p in external
  4. curriculum development
  5. variable seq
  6. Variable speed MIDI-file playback?
  7. MAX Digest - 19 Jan 1999 to 20 Jan 1999 - Special issue (#1999-20)
  8. 2 of N lines/2408
  9. Gone camping... (yep, in the snow).
 10. curriculum, checksum, compressor
 11. MTPII
 12. Max on PC ?
 13. msp delay~ limited
 14. call the revolut!on off please
 15. MIDI transmission problem


Date:    Wed, 20 Jan 1999 10:51:26 -0500
From:    Christopher Murtagh 
Subject: Action, Reaction, thanks.


>Fwd: b!t revolut!on : : part _ 0+3
>Fwd: b!t revolut!on : : part _ 0+2
>Fwd: b!t revolut!on : : part _ 0+1
>Fwd: b!t revolut!on : 0+0 : le fantome de la l!berte
>Fwd: b!t revolut!on : : part _ 0+4 f!lm


>> del max +@SYMBIOTIC.ORG
>+@SYMBIOTIC.ORG has been removed from the MAX list. Notification has been

Thanks to antiorp for posting this reminder to the list:
>Please note: There is NO campaign period, the vote question is NOT to be
>debated on the list. Anyone posting propaganda one way or another
>regarding this vote will be removed from the list immediately.

Any comments, complaints, etc. are to be sent to and
NOT the list.

Thank you

Christopher Murtagh
MAX listserv owner


Date:    Wed, 20 Jan 1999 10:06:41 -0500
From:    "one Cointreau, on ice...." 
Subject: b!te m01 (and a question)

>>                  dze b!t revolut!on. 0+1 elokuent oppoz!t!on 2

>>                  dze maxforum lo.tekk `democracy`

C'mon, own up...which one of you is trying to superglue the wickets

in advance of the bowl by this sidesplittingly funny mediatic

masquerading as another high noise/low signal missal from our

poster child? You don't actually expect us to *believe* that antiorp

actually be reminding us in such detail of some of the reasons one
might want

to vote *against* his regular ladles (that's "addle" with an L?) of
alphababble soep, do you?


Extra credit question: According to Dante, what is the arrow which "the

of exile shoots first?"

On a less bemused note, a question that came out of Luke D.'s recent

about teaching the MAX course for non-newbies that has produced some
sort of

interesting responses from friends (some of whom you read here). I'll
offer it

for more general consideration, since I'm genuinely interested in what

rest of you may think. Quoting email's legal if it's yours:

>2. Ask yourself why you *don't* do interactive music. Ask the question
several >times, and don't accept "because it just doesn't interest me"
as a good answer. >Based on what you can see from the tools, is the
limitation encoded? If so, >what sorts of end runs might bring the
tools into an area you *do* find >interesting?


>Can you stylize MAX/MSP's deficits to your liking?

An implied convergence from the other direction is also interesting,
too: As

we all get faster machines and David et. al. keep tossing paper planes

Parnassus' slopes, we can start doing things in real time which we used

only ascribe to the offline software synthesis world. Not just folks in

or NY or Ouagadougou, but ordinary boffins with pluck and bucks. What

to the microculture when one can produce works either in studio or live

aural surfaces are indistinguishable?

Just curious,


|=============== Artesyn Communication Products, Inc.


| Gregory Taylor                    Email:

| Marketing Communications Manager  Phone: 608-831-5500

| 8310 Excelsior Drive              Fax:   608-831-4249               |

| Madison, WI 53717-1935


|    Hoi, digerati! Wil je even surfen?



Date:    Wed, 20 Jan 1999 17:09:51 +0000
From:    Jean Favory 
Subject: Patcher *p in external

David Zicarelli  writes:

> For non-user-interface objects, it's bound to the symbol "#P" when
> your instance creation function is called. Other bindings are the
> owning box for non-UI objects bound to #B (at this same time)
> and the name of your object bound to #I in your extern's initialization
> (main) routine.

Works fine.
Thank you very much David.



Date:    Wed, 20 Jan 1999 11:16:59 -0500
From:    Todd Winkler 
Subject: Re: curriculum development

In response to Luke DuBois' mail:

Anyone considering teaching a course in interactive music using Max might
want to take a look at my book: "Composing Interactive Music: Techniques
and Ideas Using Max." You can get ordering info from the MIT Press website

The book is specifically geared towards "jump starting" composers and
musicians who may not have much programming experience but who are
interested in doing advanced work in Max. It is ideally suited for a
graduate seminar or upper-division course. I just finished teaching
a grad seminar at Trinity college, called " Real-Time Interaction," and I
was pleased to hear from the students that the text was very helpful. It
also made the course much more enjoyable to teach, since all of the
programming examples are printed in the book, and all of the examples are
included on an enclosed CD-ROM, ready to demonstrate in class. I
simultaneously introduced basic information about MSP during the course. At
Brown, I will teach a similar undergrad course this semester, with the
curriculum designed to focus on more advanced uses of MSP the following

For anyone interested in teaching Max, you might want to read a paper from
the 1995 International Computer Music Conference. It's a bit old, but still
may be helpful, called "Composing Interactive Music: A Pedagogical Approach
to Teaching Interactive Composition."

You can find this paper, and some info on my work with the Very Nervous
System on my website (under construction, but still functional) at:

I will be adding a few more recent papers soon.


Todd Winkler, Director
MacColl Studios for Electronic Music
Brown University
Providence, RI 02912
phone: (401) 863-3651


Date:    Wed, 20 Jan 1999 09:21:03 -0800
From:    Peter Nyboer 
Subject: variable seq

ezueled@MINDLESS.COM wrote:
>And David Z.: how about a variable speed playback Seq object?

Check out Eric Singer's SeqPlayer at  AND,
loverly Eric has just made it PPC native.  I have successfully created a
patch with it that will let you play back a type 0 MIDI file at any tempo,
as well as sync to external MIDI beat clock.   Actually, it's centered
around external beat clock, so the idea is that you can vary playback from
the "master tempo," whatever it might be at the time.
"Fantastic!" you say. "Why, that's just what I need!  Can I have it?"
Well, sure, but it is on a computer in a facility that I won't be going to
until next week, so until then...BUT it is actually a fairly simple patch,
so if you download SeqPlayer, you could pro'ly figger it out.
(I know it's irritating.  Believe me, I'm irritated too, cuz I gots to hand
off the patch to Eric because I'm having problems with
midiparse->midiformat out of SeqPlayer.)


Peter Nyboer
"Now, I not some guru or Dog or anything"


Date:    Wed, 20 Jan 1999 13:10:35 -0500
From:    Eric Singer 
Subject: Re: Variable speed MIDI-file playback?

>And David Z.: how about a variable speed playback Seq object?

Try SeqPlayer, available from my site



Date:    Wed, 20 Jan 1999 18:28:14 -0000
From:    Nick Rothwell 
Subject: Re: MAX Digest - 19 Jan 1999 to 20 Jan 1999 - Special issue

> there are people on this list who have gotten good at getting the
> studio 4 to behave itself, but my limited experiences with them have
> been poor.

After spending a few years with a MOTU MTP (problematic) and a MOTU
MTP-II (twice as expensive, twice as problematic) I traded the latter
for a Studio 4, which has been faultless. On the other hand, I do very
little filtering and processing with mine - that's what MAX is for.

> the logical process of elimination would be to test the patch on the
> power mac with the midi translator ii and the lc with the studio
> 4...

Here's some data points. My Studio 4 has worked fine on every machine
I've tried it on, including a PowerBook 100, PowerBook 170, PowerBook
520. My self-powered Apple MIDI interfaces worked on the 100 and 170,
not on the 520. My Opcode Translator interface (practically identical
to the Apple design, at least externally) is fine on the 520. Ergo, I
would blame serial port hardware design arbitrariness for problems of
this kind.

        Nick Rothwell, CASSIEL              contemporary dance projects              music synthesis and control

  You've read the rant, now buy the album:


Date:    Wed, 20 Jan 1999 14:28:33 -0500
From:    "one Cointreau, on ice...." 
Subject: 2 of N lines/2408

I imagine that, for some of you (notably those for whom Engels is
niet je moedertaal), these two lines may have been lost in the storm
of self-justificatory Comp Lit Theory Generator output from allioop:

>text: subscribe unsubscribe m9ndfukc

The perfect solution lies in these two lines - sado-masochasting to a
narrower audience who can't live without the conga line of nonalphanumeric
Chinoiserie. I commend it to your use and enjoyment. Should my life assume
a form where I need other regurgitated theory to read beyond my wife's
students' seminar papers and require more modest-return brainteasers than
de Pessoa's incarnations provide, I shall certainly avail myself of said

And noise? in the meanwhile, sakonda-san's graphic whizzy new graphic
interface to his granular stuff playing wind-tunnel with John Oswald's
"Plexure" should just about do the trick. Baroque edifices of theory? does it *sound?*

On another note, the local supplier with whom I usually try to do business
in the name of local support seems to have no idea when MOTU will start
delivering 2408s. Is this a general problem for the rest of you (i.e.
one where a company is unable to meet product demand)? If not, who actually
has the things?

shake and bake,

Knowledge is not enough|Science is not enough|Love is dreaming this equation
Gregory Taylor|host, RTQE|WORT-FM, Madison, WI|


Date:    Wed, 20 Jan 1999 15:30:16 -0500
From:    Chris Murtagh 
Subject: Gone camping... (yep, in the snow).

Greetings Maxers,

 Just to let you know, I will be gone to Winnipeg for the next couple days
(doing some winter camping), so I will be unable to help with any list
problems etc.. If you have any problems it will have to wait until Tuesday.

Cheers & Happy Maxing.


Christopher Murtagh
MAX listserv owner


Date:    Wed, 20 Jan 1999 12:55:34 -0800
From:    Peter Elsea 
Subject: curriculum, checksum, compressor

Quick message in the midst of chaos: (if you think upgrading a computer is
tough, try upgrading a building!)

I agree with Richard D wholeheartedly, including the part about different
methodologies. I thank him for mentioning my tutors, which are really the
syllabus for the Max class I teach once a year. The only difference between
what you will see there and what I actually do is that I spend more time on
basic issues (I assumed for posting I didn't need to include my "This is an
inlet" level stuff.) I do start with notein, and spend a couple of lessons
on simple transformations.

As for externals, obviously I include the Lobjects, not out of hubris but
because the Lobjects were written specifcally to streamline teaching. In
many classes I'm more interested in communicating high level ideas than
nuts and bolts issues, and if there's some process that needs the sum of
the value in the list, I'd rather just put Lsum on the board than all he
bits required to do it the old way.

I teach my students that a good patcher fits on a single screen.

The usual approach to generating a checksum for midi is to:
add up everything
Bitwise AND it with 0x7f
1's complement the result with ~

There's a compressor I'm proud of in the piece Echowork to be found at
It's sort of fuzzy, but only has two rules.
Peter Elsea
Electronic Music Studios
University of California, Santa Cruz


Date:    Wed, 20 Jan 1999 23:58:13 +0100
From:    Roby Steinmetzer 
Subject: Re: MTPII

Nick Rothwell  wrote:

>After spending a few years with a MOTU MTP (problematic) and a MOTU
>MTP-II (twice as expensive, twice as problematic) I traded the latter
>for a Studio 4, which has been faultless.

I never had any problems with my MTPII, it has been faultless.

Roby Steinmetzer
Luxembourg, Europe


Date:    Wed, 20 Jan 1999 13:28:35 +0100
From:    "Mag. Andreas Weixler" 
Subject: Max on PC ?

Sometime ago a Max-Version for PC had been announced.
Did it become true yet ?

Andreas Weixler


Date:    Wed, 20 Jan 1999 14:15:04 +0100
From:    "Mag. Andreas Weixler" 
Subject: msp delay~ limited

A question: we could not reach more delay time than 3000 ms with the
delay~, why ?
Which object can do up to 50 secs ore more audio-delay ?

Thank You

Andreas Weixler
SAMT-Linz, IEM-Graz


Date:    Thu, 21 Jan 1999 10:51:58 +1100
From:    Garth Paine 
Subject: call the revolut!on off please

The sooner these "b!t revolut!on" nuts are off this list the better - we
all have the right to come to a common descision and that is what Chris is
organising - I am not a member of this list to have all your crap
transfered to my computer and unsubscribed last time it whent on and on and
on.  You seem so self obsessed that you can't see how it affects everyone
else.  So PLEASE leave off the struggle to the death bit and leave off the
insults to Chris who does a fine job trying to find solutions acceptable to
the majority of the list.



See information about my new immersive interactive sound installations

. Composer, Sound Designer
.. Interactives Designer
... Interactive Installation Artist
.... Exhibition Consultant


Date:    Thu, 21 Jan 1999 01:06:40 +0200
From:    Eirik Lie 
Subject: Re: MIDI transmission problem

>Date:    Tue, 19 Jan 1999 10:09:43 +0100
>From:    Jens Jacobsen 
>Subject: Re: MIDI transmission problem
>Eirik Lie wrote:
>> an OMS dialog box tells me:
>> "There is a MIDI transmission problem on the Modem port. Either the
>> interface is missing, or too much data is being sent.
>Have you tried to uncheck the box "Report serial overrun and framing
>errors" in the OMS Setup: Preferences?

The box was checked, I will now try to uncheck it. However, it was also
checked on the slower Mac (LC475), on which I had no problem, so I doubt
that could be the problem. However, in the same OMS Setup preferences box
there is also a checkbox called "Use Apple SerialDMA driver when
available". It is checked on my PowerMac, but it is greyed out on the
LC475. Should this box be unchecked (on a PowerMac with a Studio4)?

Eirik Lie, Bjornerabben 9, N-0383 Oslo, Norway
Email:   -   Tel +47 22 50 23 14
Check out my CD "12 Bilder":


End of MAX Digest - 20 Jan 1999 (#1999-22)