Subject: MAX Digest - 7 Dec 1998 to 8 Dec 1998 (#1998-93)
Date: Wed, 9 Dec 1998 00:00:00 -0500
From: Automatic digest processor 
Reply-To: MAX - Interactive Music/Multimedia Standard Environments
     
To: Recipients of MAX digests 

There are 9 messages totalling 397 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Video !ack Firwire rant
  2. the bomb
  3. video sampler
  4. fLOW - live broadcast with RealAudio / WebCam (14 Dec 98)
  5. roman!zat!on ov r!duszd vou.lz
  6. Menubar off... how? (2)
  7. midi beat clock (2)

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Date:    Tue, 8 Dec 1998 01:10:04 -0500
From:    Johnny DeKam 
Subject: Video !ack Firwire rant

Rant:

>It seems that ideally a driver should be written for DV (digital video
>cards or Firewire or 1394 spec - all the same thing)

Agreed.

>
>Brad Pillow seems to be a driver guru for Promax, a big US retailer of DV
>products. He wrote their custom drivers that improved upon the Radius DV
>card which they market under their own name - Firemax.

Please don't insult Promax by saying they improved upon Radius DV.
Promax was the FIRST to market a Firewire video solution based directly on
the
first 1394 card designed by Adaptec.

>>Josh/ProMax just showed at DCC, Vision DSP from
>>Opcode ($400) doing multitrack audio (at least 8 tracks until he can do a
>>track count test with EIDE) while playing the DV full rez out the FireMax.
>>I can remember the days of waiting for an audio tape deck to chase and
lock
>>up - so this is just really cool for a few bucks.  A Media Cleaner Plug-in
>>to Premiere was used to make the DV movie a Ref Movie so that no
additional
>>hard disk space was needed for smooth DV scrubbing is DSP.  Just another
>>cool thing FireMax can do!

You might be slightly confused - the only way to use audio or video over
firewire currently is through QuickTime-- "DV Movie" = QuickTime
Josh was running 8 tracks of audio within Vision, and simultaneously playing
a DV movie using QuickTime -- there is no Opcode proprietary driver.

Promax themselves will tell you that there driver will ONLY work with
Premiere or fully QTML
compliant player.  MAX's movie object doesn't quite fit the bill, and that's
why firewire doesn't
work with MAX.

I'll be the first to admit that it (firewire AV in MAX) would be great  --

It's really just a matter writing a better Quicktime object.

In the meantime, there is Imagine and X<>pose to work with Video sampling
controlled by MAX externally, and within 3 months  the new IVP video
sampler 
(which will support firewire BTW)

---

Firewire is an open protocol capable of transporting any kind of data. (not
just Quicktime) and will have an increasing presence in all of our hardware
(note: all future powerbooks will have firewire, and it was recently
reported that Apple is going to replace the venerable SCSI with Firewire
because its faster, cheaper and easier to work with.  Its showing up all
over the place, (don't be surprised when your vcr or dvd or CD has a
firewire port) and I believe its only a matter of time before the pro
digital audio arena picks it up.

Johnny DeKam
....................................................................
                                                    http://node.net/

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 8 Dec 1998 02:53:05 EST
From:    Scott Draves 
Subject: Re: the bomb

thanks for your kind words, zip.

> Is there a way to save the bomb window as a high quality quicktime movie?

there's nothing in the bomb object to do this.  if i had example code
or documentation i could probably put it together.  if the card
supports capture from a window, that would do, perhaps.  i'm concerned
that without serious hardware the timing will be toasted, but it might
work at low frame rate.

> seems a bit of a waste to record to my lowly VHS deck and then go
> back into the computer grabbing the VHS via the Miro.

this will probably work pretty well since the image is low spatial
resolution anyway.  the color will need correction, but the additional
artifacts and noise will just add to the mix :)

> Also, I couldn't find any detailed info on the Max messages that are
> understood by the latest version of the bomb object. Where can I
> find this info?

isn't there a tutorial directory in the archive?  there should be a
dozen max patches in there.

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 8 Dec 1998 03:32:57 -0500
From:    Jeff Mann 
Subject: Re: video sampler

> From:    David Rodger 
> ... OTOH, Don Ritter developed a system on an
> Amiga called "Orpheus", which allows video to be trigger by MIDI.
> He's since ported this to NT.  ...

Don Ritter will be at InterAccess in Toronto (via videoconference from
NYC),tonight, Tuesday the 8th at 8pm, as part of the "Tactile Video"
project I've organized. He will be talking about Orpheus and his
interactive video art installations, along with Paul Garrin and Bill
Buxton. On January 5th, David Rokeby and Tom Sherman will be speaking.
More info at: http://www.interaccess.org/arg/tv

InterAccess
Suite #444
401 Richmond Street West (at Spadina)
Toronto, ON
(416) 599-7206

More news on video stuff:

I tried the Buz card, and unfortunately it doesn't work all that well,
despite earlier positive reviews from another list member. The problem
is that it needs to play the movie in a window on the computer monitor
at the same time as sending it out the video out. Unfortunately, Max's
movie object doesn't support scaling, so when playing a full-screen
movie (720x480), it tries to play it full-screen to the monitor as well,
resulting in about 2 frames per second at most. I've got an experimental
modified version of the movie object with scaling implemented which I'll
be testing in a day or two, so stay tuned...

> From:    Eric Rosenzveig 
> It seems that ideally a driver should be written for DV (digital video
> cards or Firewire or 1394 spec - all the same thing), so that clips
> could be accessed right off the drive, NOT from RAM, and output
> out the card thru

Since DV is supported by QuickTime, in theory this should work already,
as it does (according to Ken Gregory) for the TARGA boards and
(according to someone else) for the Miro, and (hopefully) for the Buz.
Apparently though, at least for the Firemax (according to Johnny DeKam),
it doesn't, and I haven't been able to get any real answer from Promax
or Brad Pillow as to why not, or how we could modify the Max movie
object to make it work (I sent him the movie object source code,
although it was an old version). If there is a problem with the Firemax
driver, we can only hope Brad will fix it, since it is proprietary - we
can't get the source (the driver is the glue between QuickTime and the
hardware). But since the driver works with MoviePlayer and Vision, my
sense is that we should be able to modify the Max movie object (not a
"driver" per se) to make it work - all we need is an example of how to
properly address the Firemax driver with standard QuickTime calls in C++
in order to make it work. I've asked Brad for this a couple of times,
but he hasn't given me anything.

Unfortunately I can't get my hands on a Firemax to test, since they
don't sell through dealers. I'm considering just buying one, and then
bugging Promax for some tech support in interfacing to it - I imagine
I'd have more sway as a paying customer :-) but it's a bit of a
gamble... I don't know if anyone has tried it with the Radius or Apple
cards/drivers - I would be very interested to know. However, I'd much
prefer the Firemax because of its functionality with Premiere.

> Brad Pillow seems to be a driver guru for Promax, a big US retailer of DV
> products. He wrote their custom drivers that improved upon the Radius DV
> card which they market under their own name - Firemax.

As I understand it, the Firemax-C hardware is the Texas Instruments
board - not sure if it is the same as Radius, but I don't think so since
it doesn't work with Radius EditDV. The original Firemax is an Adaptec
board; the Apple card is the same as Radius I think.

> >Josh/ProMax just showed at DCC, Vision DSP from
> >Opcode ($400) doing multitrack audio (at least 8 tracks until he can do a
> >track count test with EIDE) while playing the DV full rez out the
FireMax.
>
> To cut to the chase - therefore is the driver already written for us Max
> users? Can this obviously proprietary Opcode driver be folded into any new
> video object being currently proposed by those on the list? My knowledge
of
> Opcode politics in these matters is completely nil.

Brad told me in e-mail a couple of weeks ago that he had got Vision and
was going to try it with the Firemax. My guess is that it just worked -
as it should. I don't think he changed his driver code, but maybe.

Rather than asking Opcode to put proprietary code into the Max movie
object - making the whole thing proprietary - I'd rather keep working on
it. My feeling is that we can make it work within the next couple of
months at the most...   
mailto:jefman@utcc.utoronto.ca ||   http://www.interlog.com/~jefman
Visit the Art & Robotics Group site: http://www.interaccess.org/arg

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 8 Dec 1998 13:47:46 +0100
From:    "Dr. Karlheinz Essl" 
Subject: fLOW - live broadcast with RealAudio / WebCam (14 Dec 98)

Dear friends!

I'd like to introduce a new work-in-progress of mine, which fourth
realisation will be broadcasted live via RealAudio and a
remote-controllable WebCam:

        Mo, 14 Dec 1998, 20:30 MET
        http://www.essl.at/works/flow/flake.html

        version for e-guitar, electronics and film projection
        feat. Martin Mandl, Karlheinz Essl and Jack Hauser

fLOW
====

fLOW is a work-in-progress that was started under ever-changing titles in
October 1998. It is based on a DSP computer program running on Apple
Macintosh G3 machines. Written in MSP, it generates an ever-changing sound
scape in real time that fills the space with flooding sounds that resemble
- metaphorically - the timbres of water, fire, earth, and air.

The whole project is carried out in several steps which take place in
various location with changing musicians from different fields like New
Music, experimental jazz, free improvisation and New Electronic Music. At
each performance, the sound scape is interpreted and commented by
live-musicians. Each realisation is developed for the specific place and
takes into account its individual socio-cultural context. Besides music and
sound, a realisation can also include light installations, film
projections, performance aspects and elaborated time scores.

Integral part of each performance is the MAZE (Modular Algorithmic Zound
Environment), a computer-based Realtime Composition and Improvisation
Environment developed by Karlheinz Essl since 1996 which the composer plays
himself on an Apple PowerBook with additional control devices:

        http://www.essl.at/works/amazing.html#maze

fLAKE
=====

The upcoming performance on Monday, 14 Dec 1998 - entitled "fLAKE" - takes
place at the "rhiz", an experimental music club in Vienna (Austria) which
is built beneath a historical subway bridge. The music program of this
location is dedicated to the "New Electronic Music" and it includes DJ
events an live performances of any kind.

For this concert, a random-driven Strategy Oracle for improvisation was
constructed which will generate a four-line sentence with playing
instructions whenever evoked. A web version of this oracle (implemented in
JavaScript) can be visited at:

        http://www.essl.at/works/flow/playing-strategies_js.html

Cheers,
   --- Karlheinz

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 8 Dec 1998 11:57:09 -0600
From:    =cw4t7abs 
Subject: roman!zat!on ov r!duszd vou.lz

http://194.19.130.194/=cw4t7abs/0f0003/ztpd/marina_grzinic.html

\+\ re : !ezterda!z pozt

tzorr!. abr dzat = relevnt + on top!k due 2 az w!ll szoon not!sz
dzere w!ll b 1 pozt apropoz leonardo. hensz. tzorr!. abr !t = aprop.
mozt prznz on l!zt = akadem!kx etc or fanss! zelvz az.
+ !f 1 = prm!td 2 pozt length! anounsmentz re:konzert odr 1 addtl
such akt!v!t! !t = aprop dzat 1 b prm!td 2 pozt kontra mattr.

peace != death
peace = kommun!kat!on
kommun!kate++

pzb. kommun!kat!on = war rout!n auss! +?
     az amer!kanz = vel aware. 1 = muzt wage war 2 akt!vate peace +?

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 8 Dec 1998 18:59:41 +0200
From:    Joachim Gossmann 
Subject: Menubar off... how?

Hello..

A while ago I saw a Max-presentation that did not display the menubar
nor window elements on screen. I read through the manual to find out how
to switch of the menubar, but could not find anything. It must somehow
be done by sending system-messages..?!?

Does anybody know how this works?

Joachim

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 8 Dec 1998 13:35:35 +0000
From:    Ed Hartley 
Subject: Re: Menubar off... how?

Joachim Gossmann wrote:

> Hello..
>
> A while ago I saw a Max-presentation that did not display the menubar
> nor window elements on screen. I read through the manual to find out how
> to switch of the menubar, but could not find anything. It must somehow
> be done by sending system-messages..?!?
>
> Does anybody know how this works?

Don't remember offhand, but I'm pretty sure it's in the help file for
"thispatcher"

Ed Hartley

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 8 Dec 1998 16:21:58 -0800
From:    Peter Nyboer 
Subject: midi beat clock

How does max take midi beat clock in?  I understand timein coordinates with
OMS, but it doesn't recognize beat clock in.  Is there an OMS setting that
allows me to send this to max?  Or do I have to use MidiManger?  I really
shouldn't ask that, becuase I can't use MidiManager...
As for my previous question about realtime continuous control of midi...seq
doesn't cut it.  One can send hook messages to change the tempo, but not
too many or too quickly.  Tangent:  I thought that seq accepted type 1
files now.  This doesn't seem to be the case, though.  Is there an update?
 Eric Singer's SeqPlayer looks promising for continous control, though.
detonate kept giving me an error when trying to read in a midifile (type 0
or 1), so that was not too happening.
Part one of the G3-to-7100 saga:  The Sonnet Crecendo arrived and was
fairly easy to install.  The PDS video adapter was a bit shifty to install,
but it seems to work fine (though it does take up one NuBus slot).   Not
much improvement seen using Sys. 7.5.5, doing crappy web work, which
requires a lot of application switching (Photoshop/BBEdit/IE Explorer
(gasp!)/Fetch/+more) but that is to be expected, I suppose.  Max-relevance
has yet to be explored, but I am so far unimpressed...

Peter Nyboer
pnyboer@sirius.com

http://www.sirius.com/~pnyboer/
--home of Slambassador multimedia gallery--
http://www.sirius.com/~pnyboer/product
--product prototype!--

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 8 Dec 1998 22:45:40 +0000
From:    Ed Hartley 
Subject: Re: midi beat clock

Peter Nyboer wrote:

> How does max take midi beat clock in?  I understand timein coordinates
with
> OMS, but it doesn't recognize beat clock in.  Is there an OMS setting that
> allows me to send this to max?  Or do I have to use MidiManger?  I really
> shouldn't ask that, becuase I can't use MidiManager...

Use the "rtin" object. Clocks=248, Start=250, Stop=252. "midiin" might work
too, but I'm not sure.

Ed Hartley

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End of MAX Digest - 7 Dec 1998 to 8 Dec 1998 (#1998-93)
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