Subject: MAX Digest - 3 Nov 1998 to 4 Nov 1998 (#1998-59)
Date: Thu, 5 Nov 1998 00:00:01 -0500
From: Automatic digest processor 
Reply-To: MAX - Interactive Music/Multimedia Standard Environments
To: Recipients of MAX digests 

There are 9 messages totalling 456 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. OS8.5 problems (with MAX?) (4)
  2. OS 8.5
  3. MacOS 8.5
  4. 1zt european konferensz on algebra!k abztrakt data t!pez |--   formless
     abstraction striated with fractures heap of inanities of things
  6. check failed: typedmess

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Date:    Tue, 3 Nov 1998 22:51:41 -0700
From:    Adam Schabtach 
Subject: Re: OS8.5 problems (with MAX?)

FWIW: I have just started running MAX and MSP under OS 8.5 on a 266MHz G3
minitower. I've been running 8.5 daily for about a week. MAX 3.5.9 and MSP
both run normally, AFAICT.

In general I haven't had many problems with 8.5, except for incompatibility
with a few third-party, non-music system extensions. And I *love* the sound
But there is extensive information regarding a very obscure, still
undiagnosed, but occasionally disastrous disk-related bug at the Macintouch
site ( It is probably worth reading this
information before one makes the decision to install 8.5, although there is
some evidence that this bug is also present in 8.1.

Adam Schabtach            

                  Inquire within.
               No purchase necessary.


Date:    Wed, 4 Nov 1998 01:43:02 -0500
From:    Johnny DeKam 
Subject: OS 8.5

I've been using OS 8.5 for several weeks now, I haven't had as much trouble
as described
in another message, in fact I find it to be overall more stable, and
definitely faster.
(about 30% I'd say)  It however, has not been error free, and I'm waiting
for several updates to some of my favorite utilities.

MAX 3.5.x seems to work fine.  All of my audio software also works, the
sound manager is the same version as Quicktime 3.02.  Premiere and Cubase
VST work especially well.
Lot's of new features: especially Applescript is vastly improved.  Sherlock
really works and saves me ALOT of time doing web research..

Yes it is bloated (memory wise) perhaps it is the final "fatness" before we
see REAL memory performance and multitasking in the future major (OS X)
migration.  ( On the other hand, intrepid upgraders should continue to feast
on faster and more powerful machines... I'm not really upset by the 32Meg
memory requirement of OS 8.5 because I won't settle for less than 160 meg in
my box anyway )

Bottom line, you WILL work faster and better, but be very prepared and
careful about your upgrade, and if its not working for you, don't hesitate
to revert back to OS 8.1, until everyone has a chance to release updates to
their software (including Apple).
See a good article about this very topic by Andy Inthako on (yesterday).

Johnny DeKam


Date:    Wed, 4 Nov 1998 02:14:09 -0500
From:    Alex Burton 
Subject: Re: MacOS 8.5

At 12:00 AM -0500 11/4/98, Automatic digest processor wrote:
>Date:    Tue, 3 Nov 1998 15:37:19 -0500
>From:    Stephen Kay 
>Subject: OS8.5 problems (with MAX?)
>>For those of you who are debating upgrading, I would say wait for 8.5.1.=
> I
>>think there will be a few serious bug fixes there.
>Anyone else using 8.5?  I was just thinking about making the
>Stephen Kay

 been using 8.5 GM for over a few weeks on a 604e desktop and on a G3 PB
with no problems whatsoever... the 604e was (and is still) formatted with
FWB. Installed both right over 8.1 (no clean install).

 apparently i've been lucky... see for an in-depth coverage of
8.5 woes. Chris, keep 8.5 away from any drive that has ever held unix

 reading that, i would'nt risk upgrading another machine before things
settle down a little.



Date:    Wed, 4 Nov 1998 04:30:30 -0600
From:    =cw4t7abs 
Subject: 1zt european konferensz on algebra!k abztrakt data t!pez |--
         formless abstraction striated with fractures heap of inanities of
         things forgotten

- k!ndl! 4ward d!sz announszment 2 ur kolleaguez.

1zt european konferensz on algebra!k abztrakt data t!pez |--

>From:    Richard Zvonar 

warum b!n !ch !ch

>Chris Murtagh Hrdc-drhc wrote:              |--

und warum n!cht du

>>At 11:26 AM -0700 11/03/98,

wann began dze ze!t und wo endet |-- der raum

>>Anyone here using OS 8.5? with MAX/MSP? Any success/failures?

!zt daz leben untr der sonne n!cht blosz e!n traum +?
>>For some reason, my

da da da
>G3 desktop machine now gives me

da da da

>the 'Your


>>wasn't shut down properly' message about 75% of the time (when I KNOW I
>>shut it down).



shut it

here the subject *I*
there the object universe littered with dead notions
where *I* throw out the rubbish
the impotent gestures
the gasps

*I* leaning on the trunk
*I* feel
my desire to vomit desire

o collapse
ecstacy from which I fall
when I cry out
you who are and will be
when I will be no more
deaf X

the sparkle
the top of the sky
the earth
the *I*

heart spits out star
incomparable anguish

I laugh but I'm cold

> My

da da da

>G3 all-in-one has some serious problems where I get a
>>b-tree problems,

tr! d!sz w!th w!th "all-in-one" 2 rezolv "I get a b-tree problems" +?

norton d!zk ed!tr
hecz mode
ecztens!onz tree
kommand j
sel evr!dz!ng
kommand sh!ft del
objektz menu - wr!te sektr

>I lost my boot disk

glittering points of light
sheets of flames
formless abstraction striated with fractures

o manufactured nothingness
in the factory of infinite vanity
 gasp.deserted expanse

>after installing 8.5.

>The disk had previously |-- formatted with the APS Charismac utility. After
>reformatting  with Apple's DiskSetup and installing the Apple drivers it
>has been stable.

a.luvl! progresz. phpz u !=3D aware dzat 8.5 haz ecz!btd 1 prblm whereb!
dr!vez appear 2 d!ss.appear !n 5 * 10^-44.
get bak 2 vere u 1nz b.longd
=3D=3D 8.1

>Stephen Kay
>Anyone else using 8.5?  I was just thinking about making the switch...

d=10nt u bl=10 ur t=10p.   d.s!nchd.d.s!nchd.d.s!nchd.
                              --               -            -   -

 - paranoja v=E4x h=E4gre v=E4x st=F6rre ||
!zbn 91-518-2073-0. zav!ng prt -=10v dze ram hEad krSch.
 brno. czech republ!k.           |
               zyStem .  galax! . un!verSS.  nSk

Advancements in technology have meant that all manner of equipment is now
available for reappropriation by whoever has the time to learn how to use
redefine, misuse and rewire it

more interesting & intelligent solutions, in these days of networked
intelligence. Grrrrrrrrrrrrrr.Gz-     d!sz !z a. pro.dukt. tezt.sem!nar.


Date:    Wed, 4 Nov 1998 09:26:19 +0000
From:    david stevens 
Subject: Re: OS8.5 problems (with MAX?)

> Subject:>
> >For those of you who are debating upgrading, I would say wait for 8.5.1.=
>  I
> >think there will be a few serious bug fixes there.
> >Chris
> Anyone else using 8.5?  I was just thinking about making the
> switch...
> Stephen Kay

I'm using it on both my Powerbook 3400c/200 (which is what i run max/msp on)
my 7600/G3.
So far (and i hesitate to say this 8-) ) there have been no problems with
max/msp. On my 7600 I'm getting audio splats when i use my cubase vst/korg
combination with the ASIO, but it's ok with SoundManager, so I suspect that
that's the ASIO rather than the OS. I don't use a lot of the new features,
Finder operation is definately a lot snappier.



Date:    Wed, 4 Nov 1998 09:40:47 -0600
From:    Paul Hertz 
Subject: Re: OS8.5 problems (with MAX?)

I've been working with 8.5 on a graphics production machine (Mac 8600/300
with 128M RAM, running Photoshop, Illustrator, and various HTML tools,
including Netscape 4.5) and like it very much. Sherlock, the search tool,
is especially compelling, but there are other cool features, like the
"Summarize file to Clipboard" command you get in contextual menu by
control-clicking a text file (like a listserv digest). The only problem
I've experienced has been network problems caused by virus-checking
software (auto checking has to be disabled for Virex and MacGuard, or you
can't copy files via TCP/IP).

I doubt that DigiDesign's editor for the SampleCell I use in a different
machine (still with 7.6.1) will be all that friendly to 8.5, much as I'd
like to upgrade. I run MAX & other MIDI software on the same machine. If
graphics were all I had to do, I think upgrading would be well worth the

-- Paul (Paul Hertz)     |(*,+,#,=)(#,=,*,+)(=,#,+,*)(+,*,=,#)|


Date:    Wed, 4 Nov 1998 11:19:22 -0500
From:    Jon Witte 
Subject: Re: OS8.5 problems (with MAX?)

> ------------------------------
> Date:    Tue, 3 Nov 1998 13:26:08 -0500
> From:    Chris Murtagh Hrdc-drhc 
> Subject: OS8.5 problems (with MAX?)
> Anyone here using OS 8.5? with MAX/MSP? Any success/failures?
> My experience with 8.5 follows:
> For some reason, my G3 desktop machine now gives me the 'Your computer
> wasn't shut down properly' message about 75% of the time (when I KNOW I
> shut it down).

I do no use the "General Controls" control panel which is what fires up this
"shutdown improperly" message.  The only useful function that is
obtained from
this control panel is the "Return to last folder"  feature and this is much
better accomplished via Action Utilities.  ( )  I
suggest trashing the "General Controls" control panel, shutdown your
computer the
right way and don't worry about it.

> My G3 all-in-one has some serious problems where I get a
> b-tree problems, invalid nodes etc. that the Apple Disk repair utility
> cannot repair (instead it quits due to an 'internal' error). I've
> re-formatted the drive twice, and after a day it comes back. One of my
> iMacs refused to boot when I first installed 8.5, I had to zap the PRAM 3
> times and force it to boot from CD, after that it was fine. The other two
> iMacs have been working like a charm. Go figure.

I've been using 8.5 on a PPC 8100 with a NewerTech 240mhz/G3 card for
about 2
months now and have had great luck with it.  When I first installed OS
8.5,  I
was getting a lot of crashes due to incompatible hard disk drivers  (I
was using
the FWB drivers).   Also norton was showing lots of B-tree and volume
bit map
shit.  I reinitialized the drives with the OS 8.5 disk tools and the
system and
drives have been stable since. FWB has since come out with an update for
Mac OS
8.5, but I haven't bothered with it and I don't think I will.  It seems
that it's
much easier at update time if you just use the Apple drivers and the
gained by using the FWB stuff isn't worth it.  Sometimes if you are
getting a lot
a volume bitmap/b-tree stuff happening, it is caused by your Netscape
(Cool)/Internet Explorer (Yuk) caches.  A trick to this is to make a
disk image
with Shrink Wrap a little bigger than the size that you want to set for your
cache.  Make sure that "Mount Images Unlocked By Default" is checked in the
Shrink Wrap Preferences.  Now put an alias of this image in your startup
folder so that the disk image mounts automatically at startup.  Now open
up your
Netscape/Internet Explorer prefs and set this disk (mounted image file)
as your
place for cache files to be written.  Now when the cache files trash
your drive,
they can only corrupt this disk image and not the entire drive.

> Anyone else using 8.5?  I was just thinking about making the
> switch...
> Stephen Kay

OS 8.5 has a lot more PPC native code in it, so it has increased speed doing
general finder stuff (copying files, redrawing windows,  etc...)
Quickdraw is
now native code also, so screen redraw in applications that use
quickdraw (most
apps) is much faster.  Max (including MegaMax) has been running great
with it and
the MSP demos as well.  The new Sherlock find thing is pretty cool too.
It lets
you use many different internet search utilities at once to search the
as well as letting you search you own drives by file content.  I give it two
thumbs up.  It moved me and is a must compute.

Jon Witte - Music Machine Studio
*         Dancing in the moonlight, to a spiritual waltz-        *
*            Dancing to the music that's in my soul.             *


Date:    Wed, 4 Nov 1998 09:55:06 -0800
From:    Jon Christopher Nelson 

Hey maxers:

You may want to check out some of the horror stories at
before switching to OS 8.5.  I cannot verify any of the stories, but it
that at least a few 8.5 users have had to deal with the system wreaking
on external devices (foobarred hard drives).  For me, I will take a wait and
see attitude for the moment.

with warmest regards,

Jon Christopher nelson, Director
CEMI: Center for Experimental Music and Intermedia


Date:    Wed, 4 Nov 1998 23:21:01 +0100
From:    Oeyvind Brandtsegg 
Subject: check failed: typedmess

While making a collective, I get the message

check failed: typedmess: window: corrupt object

Anyone know where to start looking for tracking down this error ?
Oeyvind Brandtsegg


End of MAX Digest - 3 Nov 1998 to 4 Nov 1998 (#1998-59)