Subject: MAX Digest - 25 Oct 1998 to 26 Oct 1998 (#1998-50)
Date: Tue, 27 Oct 1998 00:00:00 -0500
From: Automatic digest processor 
Reply-To: MAX - Interactive Music/Multimedia Standard Environments
To: Recipients of MAX digests 

There are 8 messages totalling 311 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. -             |            -        -            | (2)
  2. Norton
  3. Max Digest 21-24 Oct
  4. aesend-aereceive & Max 3.5.9
  5. frequency divider
  6. Lobjects 98
  7. surgery in Overdrive

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Date:    Mon, 26 Oct 1998 00:49:29 -0600
From:    =cw4t7abs 
Subject: -             |            -        -            |

>Stephen Kay 
>>  puhh, never run norton on HFS+ formatted harddiscs!!!!
>>you will lose all data!
>Duh, of course!  Who said anything about HFS?  Besides, a new
>version of Norton is coming for HFS.

norton haz b!n ava!lbl 4 hfs [humanzfsukc].
u = ut!l!z!ng hfs at dze mom.ent.

re: norton 4.o

**Norton Utilities 4.0 Problem Reports Abound** -- The much-
  awaited release of Norton Utilities 4.0 may have come too soon.
  Numerous people (including TidBITS staff members) have experienced
  problems - some resulting in significant data loss - after using
  Norton Disk Doctor 4.0. The problems vary (see TidBITS Talk and
  MacFixIt), but we recommend that you uninstall system-level
  components of Norton Utilities 4.0 and avoid running Norton Disk
  Doctor, particularly if you use a third-party disk formatter. The
  most important thing you can do is to make sure you have multiple
  current backups. If you wish to continue running Norton Utilities
  4.0, download the 4.0.1 updater, along with a Norton Disk Doctor
  Special Edition that fits on a floppy and runs only if you boot
  from the Norton Utilities CD-ROM. (This is necessary because you
  can't update the version of Norton Disk Doctor on the CD-ROM.)
  Also, if you use Norton AntiVirus for Macintosh 5.0, get the
  Norton AntiVirus 5.0.2 update, which addresses potentially serious
  problems with Norton Utilities 4.0.

               |  |                                 |  |
               |  |                                 |  |

   -           |  |            -        -           |  |            -
   - punKtproTokol[4'7c     m9ndfukc.macht.fre! < hTTp:// 1 2 7. 0. 0. 1
           |  |            -        -           |  |            -
   -           |  |            -        -           |  |            -
   -           | 8|            -        -           | 8|            -


Date:    Mon, 26 Oct 1998 00:45:57 -0500
From:    Johnny DeKam 
Subject: Norton

>Besides, a new version of Norton is coming for HFS.

Correction - the new version of Norton has been released and is readily
(Version 4.0)
optimize (speed disk) works fine with HFS+
there have been reports of Disk Doctor being a little sketchy still with

Johnny DeKam

Johnny DeKam


Date:    Mon, 26 Oct 1998 00:52:26 -0500
From:    Stephen Kay 
Subject: -             |            -        -            |

>>Duh, of course!  Who said anything about HFS?  Besides, a new
>>version of Norton is coming for HFS.

>norton haz b!n ava!lbl 4 hfs [humanzfsukc].
>u =3D ut!l!z!ng hfs at dze mom.ent.

I meant HFS+, obviously.  Thanks for pointing it out.  I'm not
using HFS+, and since many problems are reported with it, not
onyl Norton Utilities, I have no immediate plan to switch.


Date:    Mon, 26 Oct 1998 10:24:14 +0200
From:    Nikolas Valsamakis 
Subject: Max Digest 21-24 Oct

Dear Maxers......

Can anyone mail me the Max Digest between 21 - 24 October?? (inclusive)

Thanks in advance,


      Nikolas Valsamakis
       Music Synthesis

"Death keeps me awake", Joseph Beuys


Date:    Mon, 26 Oct 1998 09:41:43 +0100
From:    Peter Castine 
Subject: Re: aesend-aereceive & Max 3.5.9

On around Sun, 25 Oct 1998 23:23:30 +0100, Pavel Smetana said something

>I had a big problems with aesend-aereceive objects (Zicarelli externals
>obj.) , when I used it in MAX 3.5.9 (external) and I only started help file
>for testing everithing crashed many times.
>I used the last FAT version of this objects. When I have try 68K version of
>this objects in the old MAX 3.0 in the same computer ( MAC PPC 4 400/ 200
>Mhz _ 64 MB _ System 7.5) everithing works OK.

Common situation: aesend and aereceive are 68k-only. They will work with
68k Max (or with Fat Max when it's running on a 68k machine). They cannot
run on a PowerMac with Max running in PPC (native) Mode.

Solution: since aesend/aereceive are unsupported objects, there may not
be a solution. The solution would be for Chris or David to rebuild the
objects to support both 68k and PPC code (i.e., build fat externals). Or
you could wheedle a copy of the source from them and build fat externals
yourself (which would be a service to the Max community at large).



----------------- -----------------
Dr. Peter Castine          | I am very pleased to announce that the
4-15 Music & Technology    | 26th International Computer Music Conference
                           | will take place in Berlin in the year 2000.
                           | We look forward to seeing you here!


Date:    Mon, 26 Oct 1998 09:23:28 +0000
From:    david stevens 
Subject: Re: frequency divider

i wrote:
> >
> >I'm finding that the source sound that I'm running through my filter
> >instrument doesn't seem to have enough low frequency energy to create a
> >sub-bass tone. It occurs to me that perhaps I can run the filter that I'm
using to
> >create the subbass sound an octave higher, and then use a frequency
divider to
> >drop the pitch of the sound back down an octave.

Kurt (obliquely) wrote:

>i can't help but wonder if the problem might not be your
> definition of 'sub-bass tone' and 'low-frequency energy'.

quite possibly!
> 1) perhaps the problem is with your monitoring. if you're trying to pump
> a big old 40Hz sine wave thru Yamaha NS-10s,

I'm using jbl 4206's on my powerbook rig, which altho' they are nearfield
monitors, have a reasonable bass response (better than NS10s anyway(?)). I
that i was  using the jbls on my main rig when i made the non-realtime
of my filtered pieces using SoundMaker, (which is what I'm trying to
now with msp), and i was getting sufficient low end to hear the "sub-bass"
sounds that i was making.

> 2) the perception of "a powerful low end" is not necessarily the same
> thing as "lots of low-frequency energy". the fundamental harmonic of
> a bass tone might be down below 100Hz, but it's the higher harmonics
> that create the perception of 'fullness' or 'warmth' (and allow us
> to identify the pitch).

what i'm trying to do is this: I have 2 sets of 8 bank resonant filters
which i
can crossfade between. at the moment I'm using the same sound source as for
non-realtime version, which is a long (30") reverb tail made with Trueverb.
has a pretty good spread of random noise (apologies if my technical concepts
not quite correct!) - which means that the harmonics in the tones that I
out from it drift nicely in and out of focus.

Even with the original version, it was difficult to get a sound with extra
end oomph, but by dropping some of the sounds an octave (and hence doubling
their length), and applying a little more filtering in Peak, I could get
something close enough to what I wanted.

what i'm now trying to get with msp is something equivalent -  I want to be
to bring in  an ocassional deep throbbing pedal tone. What I've done so far
to have the groove~ object that's sourcing that part of the patch running at
half speed, running the sound thro' its filter bank, and adding in a low
tone at the fundamental frequency. It's not _quite_ happening! So I've been
trying to think of some other way of getting the same kind of effect. It's
use just using low frequency oscillators, as they sound too samey against
noise-filtered tones - i need to retain the grainy slightly random sound of
other tones.

> basically i suspect that by using lots of filtering, you could be
> knocking out frequencies that aid the perception of power and loudness.
> try allowing some 300-400Hz or some 800Hz-1.1kHz thru, and see if that
> helps.

i'll try boosting those frequencies and see what happens.




Date:    Mon, 26 Oct 1998 11:52:08 -0700
From:    Peter Elsea 
Subject: Lobjects 98

I have posted a few new Lobjects at I haven't spent a lot of time
coding objects this year, but I have made a few that I needed for other
projects. They are beta versions- I've been using them, but haven't tested
them in odd situations with strange input, so please don't be shy about
returning comments to me. Also, some represent different attempts to solve
a particular problem, so they may be uninteresting or  redundant. If I hear
they are useful to anybody, I'll include them in the next update package
around the new year. The objects are:

*Lformat- I wrote this when I got tired of counting the inlets in a long
pack. It holds a list, and you change the members of the list by sending
the data and member number, like table.
*Like- primarily for parsing sysex messages by their headers- similar to
match, except it works on lists, and you can enter arguments in hex (00h
format) and they will still be hex after you've saved the patcher.
*Link- something of a mirror to join; lists are concatenated in the order
received, and the arguments begin the ouput list. Dosen't have hex notation
yet, but I'll probably add it.
*Llimit- Very like Laccum, except the maximum and minimum values are
bounded. There's also the command addto, which adds data to one member only.
*Lqueue- When I got my G3, I discovered I was overrunning OMS and some
instruments, especially when I'd create chords or a lot of sysex messges
from lists. Lqueue puts whatever it gets into a queue and outputs them at a
steady rate. Like iter with a throttle.
*Lsustain- modified to stop shutting off notes that are still held down.
*Lsx- similar to sxformat, but you don't run out of inlets. You can give it
arguments like F0h 18h 08h id 03h x x y y F7h. Send it [id 4] and it sets
the id byte to 4, send it [x 130] and it sets x x to 2 1, nibblizing the
value into as many as 4 bytes. You can set it to nibblize at 4 bits or 7
bits  and to do lsb first or msb first. And the hex arguments are still in
hex after you save the patch.
*nochirp- This is for WX-11 players. It removes those pesky short notes you
get when you slur.

Peter Elsea
Electronic Music Studios
University of California, Santa Cruz


Date:    Mon, 26 Oct 1998 17:13:44 -0800
From:    David Zicarelli 
Subject: surgery in Overdrive

A doctor called Opcode today who needed immediate delivery
of the latest version of Max for a computer surgery demonstration.

If you were a patient, what do you think would ensure your
chances of survival if you knew Max were being used in the

- "take it out of Overdrive, doc."

- "hey, did you empty the trash?"


David Z.


End of MAX Digest - 25 Oct 1998 to 26 Oct 1998 (#1998-50)