Subject: MAX Digest - 20 Oct 1998 to 21 Oct 1998 (#1998-45)
Date: Thu, 22 Oct 1998 00:00:00 -0400
From: Automatic digest processor 
Reply-To: MAX - Interactive Music/Multimedia Standard Environments
     
To: Recipients of MAX digests 

There are 17 messages totalling 509 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. chordseq and rtm for max
  2. symbol madness (3)
  3. Floating numberbox
  4. MAX Digest - 20 Oct 1998 - Special issue (#1998-43) (2)
  5. Let's go over this one more time
  6. MSP and Digi Sound Drivers? Mac AV cards?(was :G3 boards for 8100)
  7. mu.z!k aprez la l!terature
  8. piezo's (2)
  9. is there an upgrade path from 2.5.2 --> 3.5?
 10. changing the background color of a window
 11. Lin (2)
 12. record~ : sync output

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----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 20 Oct 1998 21:05:10 -0800
From:    dudas 
Subject: Re: chordseq and rtm for max

Patrice Coulombe writes:
>It could be very helpful for MAX users to have objects that could
>display musical symbolic notation as the objects "chordseq" and "rtm"
>in IRCAM's PACHTWORK software.

There are already some abstractions using the LCD object which are like
Paqtchwork's "chord" and "chordseq" objects. You can find them on the Ircam
FTP site in the 68k/sound/MaxSound.sea file, I believe. A newer version of
the "chord" abstraction can probably be found in
FAT/utilities/DudasTools.sea.

A _real_ user-interface object version of "chord" is already in progress.
When it is ready it will go on a public FTP somewhere. This future Max
chord object will not behave at all like the patchwork chord object,
because max is not patchwork. Still, I hope it will provide some handy
musical notation display within the Max environment... something which has
been overlooked for some incomprehensibe reason.

-R

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 20 Oct 1998 21:22:25 -0700
From:    David Zicarelli 
Subject: symbol madness

When the Max symbol table is (temporarily) full, it's possible for
2K of space to be allocated, which will cause gensym to fail
ungracefully at interrupt level, which causes sprintf and its
friends to fail ungracefully. I think 2K is a reasonable
maximum size for a symbol so I don't want to reduce that.
The better solution is to allow 2K to be allocated at interrupt
level. The current maximum is 512 bytes.

I will make all of this work correctly, it's pretty embarrassing
that it doesn't.

Stephen Kay's new object has some problems, by the way. I'm not
sure I want to go into how a hash table works in public, as
I should admit than when I was a computer science instructor
in gradudate school, my students thought I was one of the worst
teachers of all time. But essentially, the original symbol
"gobbledygook" is stored in a location that has to do with its
content. If someone changes the content, there's no way the
symbol can be found later. Now, unless you're doing something
with entered text, you may never look up the symbol; you're
just using it as a place to hold a string. But I don't like
the idea that the symbol table has lost its integrity. Do you?
Well, I guess you might like it better than a crashed machine.

David Z.

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 21 Oct 1998 00:24:18 -0400
From:    ryohros 
Subject: Floating numberbox

How can I make the preset object recognize floating point numberboxes
it's this a problem of having 3.5 instead of latest upgrade?

thanks

Raymond

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 21 Oct 1998 01:56:16 -0000
From:    Kurt Ralske 
Subject: Re: MAX Digest - 20 Oct 1998 - Special issue (#1998-43)

>Date:    Tue, 20 Oct 1998 19:40:06 -0700
>From:    David Zicarelli 
>Subject: new CD object
>
>The new ATAPI-compatible Max CD object remains at
>
>ftp://ftp.cycling74.com/cd.sit.bin
>
>Sorry there is no link to it on the site.
>
>An even newer one is currently undergoing testing.
>
>David Z.

hmmm, i can't seem to get this one to work.....
it mounts the internal drive and responds to messages
but won't play audio.....there's a message in the
max window "error:cd: driver -35 missing in drive queue"

what am i doing wrong?

many thanks
kurt

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 21 Oct 1998 01:55:42 -0400
From:    Stephen Kay 
Subject: symbol madness

David Zicarelli:
>The better solution is to allow 2K to be allocated at interrupt
>level. The current maximum is 512 bytes.

>I will make all of this work correctly, it's pretty embarrassing
>that it doesn't.

>Stephen Kay's new object has some problems, by the way.

OK.  I'm glad that you responded, since you seem to be the only
one that understands the symbol table.  If I was more careful,
I would have asked you first before posting a "solution".

I was merely trying to solve a problem that many people
posted.  Obviously, hash tables are something lacking in
my education that I should study, time permitting.

Since you have recognized the *bug* and promised to fix
it, I guess my object is unnecessary.  So everyone: don't download
it.  But based on David Z's comments, I bet it probably works
perfectly well, as long as no one ever tries to look up =

"blsodkfjsjfdhskfjh" as a symbol, or whatever it was that I used
to initialize it.  Not much of a compromise of the symbol
table...

Stephen Kay

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 21 Oct 1998 09:01:53 +0100
From:    Roby Steinmetzer 
Subject: Re: Let's go over this one more time

Hi James,

This reminds me that I still have not received any replacement Max key
disks.
I have contacted my distributor in Belgium (often);
I contacted Opcode several times.
A person named Nancy Hsieh at Opcode promised to help but this was not
really a success either.
I remember you once posted the name of a person who deals with this.
Unfortunately I can't find that posting in the achive.

Could you help me please?

Thank you

Roby Steinmetzer
Luxembourg, Europe

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 21 Oct 1998 10:23:51 +0000
From:    Neville John Cross 
Subject: MSP and Digi Sound Drivers? Mac AV cards?(was :G3 boards for 8100)

I apologize in advance for the following Digidesign *yawn* drivel.
(I tend to think of Digidesign and Bill G*tes in the same breath)

Jon Witte wrote:
>As far as using the Digi Sound manager drivers with the PT 442, it
>doesn't work.  Many crashes occur when I try to use the 442 system via
>the digi sound drivers for input or output.

I'm using a 7100/80(OS 7.6.1) with the 'old' Protools Project card ,an 882
I/O
with Digi Sound Driver 1.4.1 and Digi Init 3.1.1. I have been  waiting for
the
Newertech G3/240mhz board for seven months now!! - I should
receive it next week.
Anybody have any experience with Newertech G3\240 or 210 cards,
the old Protools 'Project' _and_  MSP ?

>If I use the straight sound
>manager for output (No Digi Driver) then MSP works fine on my
computer(snip)
>I'm gonna look into getting one of the apple
>AV cards so I can also have a sound manager input. and then splurg on
>MSP.

One of the only reasons I need the upgrade card is so I can run MSP.
( and IRCAM's 'Spat')
Anyone think I'm going to have problems with the card and MSP?

Also,could anyone explain the Mac AV card to me? Is it still
possible to buy them? Where from and how much :) ?

Regards from Britland PLC,
NJC

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 21 Oct 1998 12:58:13 +0200
From:    Roland Cahen & Ruth Sefton-Green 
Subject: Re: MAX Digest - 20 Oct 1998 - Special issue (#1998-43)

>Date:    Wed, 21 Oct 1998 00:43:36 +0100
>From:    Roby Steinmetzer 
>Subject: Re: \\ lakr!tz
>
I have tried to run your ASCII art object but I don't Know ans haven't got
"Lin"
Where can I find it ?

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 21 Oct 1998 07:42:18 -0600
From:    =cw4t7abs 
Subject: mu.z!k aprez la l!terature

1 perzn had azkd re:klr patch w!n

zomth!ng l!ke tzo +?

        Rect r;
        SetRect(&r, 0, 0, 640, 480);
        PaintRect(&r);

proc ov reduss!ng sr =3D dec!mat!on
proc ov !nkreas!ng sr =3D !nterpolat!on

aszum!ng s!g x(n) w!th spektrum X(w) !z 2 b dounsampld b! !nt faktr d.
!f reduss!ng sr b! sel ever! dth value ov x(n) dze rezult!ng s!g w!ll
b 1 al!aszd verj!on ov x(n). 2 avo!d al!a!s!ng muzt 1zt redusz dze bandw!dth
ov x(n) [v!a 1 lp f!ltr]

sr konverj!on kan b ach!evd b! 1zt !nterpolat!ng + dzen dec!mat!ng dze
rezult!ng s!g.

tzo glassbeadz - 1 qmf f!ltr !mplmntd !n msp +?

-
komm!serat!onz -!nfluenza
>>424 d!gitz ov (9/4 =3D 6 tan-1(1/8) + 2 tan-1(1/57) + tan-1(1/239)
tan-1(x=
)
=3D x - x^3/3 + x^5/5 - x^7/7 + ...) zle!e stranag1zla _|- prol!atara
>>zlata!utege kr=BAper=BAm | | | | |

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 22 Oct 1998 00:25:10 +1000
From:    overlobe@OZEMAIL.COM.AU
Subject: Re: piezo's

many thanks for piezo replies..

>Be advised that large piezos can make pretty big voltage spikes when
soundly
>struck - 10 to 20 volts is not uncommon - you might consider a voltage
clamp
>of some sort to protect the inputs on your Powerbook.

could i pad them at my mixer. .?

i've just been looking at the bonk~ port from pd.. it seems to be an object
to do exactly what i want, AND, as someone was mentioning  a while back ..
if you had more than two elements .. each being eq'd pretty heavily into
discrete bands.. i bet you could use bonk~ to do the decoding (this is more
a ? than a statement - i haven't tried it yet =D maybe it would only take
one audio channel..

nobuyasu sakonda ; http://www.marin.or.jp/sako/granular1.2.sit.bin = wicked!

bonk~ and fiddle~ for msp:
http://www-crca.ucsd.edu/~tapel/software.html

                    o
                  /|\
                  / \
                ~~~~~

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 21 Oct 1998 11:03:28 -0400
From:    Chris Murtagh Hrdc-drhc 
Subject: Re: piezo's

From: , on 10/21/98 10:25 AM:
>many thanks for piezo replies..

 If you are looking for some ready made piezos, a friend of mine hand makes
them in Victoria B.C.. They are pretty rugged, rubber coated and have an
RCA connection which makes them really easy to attach to drum brains etc..
They are about the size of a quarter ($0.25), for those of you not familiar
with North American curreny, that's circular with a diameter of 2.5 cm, if
you don't know the metric system that's 15/16ths of an inch, if you still
don't understand you probably don't want them anyway. :)

Anyway, I have 4 of them, and they work really well with my old Roland drum
brain. I was also using them in a community studio in Victoria where we had
kids bash them against all sorts of things (including other kids).

If you want info on how to get them, I'll dig up my friends mailing address,
 or if I get enough inquires I'll post it to the list (after asking him
first of course).

Chris
---------------------------------
To say that Windows 95 is just like Mac OS is like finding a potato in the
shape of Jesus and thinking you have witnessed the second coming.

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 21 Oct 1998 11:11:29 -0400
From:    Chris Murtagh Hrdc-drhc 
Subject: Re: is there an upgrade path from 2.5.2 --> 3.5?

From: "James Livingston" , on 10/20/98 11:55 PM:
>Otherwise, fire up your Hotline client.

 Hey, is Hotline now selling MAX for Opcode, or does Opcode offer a Hotline
connection to get their software? :)

 For those of you that do have a 'Hotline' version of this software, I hope
you do plan on paying for it. It would be a real shame to see this software
discontinued due to lack of sales. Get a Hotline version of Win95/NT
instead. :)

Cheers,

Chris
---------------------------------
To say that Windows 95 is just like Mac OS is like finding a potato in the
shape of Jesus and thinking you have witnessed the second coming.

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 21 Oct 1998 11:20:09 -0400
From:    Stephen Kay 
Subject: symbol madness

David Zicarelli:
>When the Max symbol table is (temporarily) full, it's possible for
>2K of space to be allocated, which will cause gensym to fail
>ungracefully at interrupt level, which causes sprintf and its
>friends to fail ungracefully. I think 2K is a reasonable
>maximum size for a symbol so I don't want to reduce that.
>The better solution is to allow 2K to be allocated at interrupt
>level. The current maximum is 512 bytes.

>I will make all of this work correctly, it's pretty embarrassing
>that it doesn't.

One other thing.  If you "fix" this as you have suggested, then
that still doesn't really solve the memory use problem, does it?

For example, if you connect a metro, counter, and numbox to a
sprintf %s, then every single number creates a new entry in Max's
Symbol Table, and eventually the memory will spiral down to zero.
Correct?  Whether or not you get tnewptr errors or crashes or not.
This doesn't seem like an optimal solution, especially for cases
where Max installations are expected to run for days or weeks.

At the risk of asking a stupid question, why isn't there some
way to do string manipulation *without* allocating symbols in
Max's Symbol Table?  That's what this whole discussion was about,
and what my attempted object was trying to do. Apparently, there
*is* no way to take a string in, manipulate it, and then send
it out without creating an entry in Max's Symbol Table, and
allocating memory.

Couldn't there be an actual different "type"?  We have ints,
floats, Symbols (and actually commas, semi-colons, and a few other
special character types).  Some cases require a Symbol to be
identified with the "Symbol" keyword.

Why not a "String" type?  Use the "String" keyword, and then
whatever is sent in is treated as a C string - no creation of
a symbol in the Symbol Table.  Manipulate it as you want, send
it back out as a "type" String.

Stephen Kay

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 21 Oct 1998 12:18:51 -0700
From:    Ken Gregory 
Subject: changing the background color of a window

> changing the background color of a window
>
>Dear MAXers!
>
>Is it possible to change the background color of a ordinary MAX window
>(e.g. to black instead of white) - if so, how can it be achieved?

Make a pict format drawing of the right size with nothing but black in a
drawing program and paste it into the patcher with the fpic object.

Hope this helps,
ken

Ken Gregory     kgregory@pangea.ca
704-138 Portage Ave. East
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada R3C 0A1
ph. 204-942-7510  fax 204-942-1555

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 21 Oct 1998 20:55:50 +0100
From:    Roby Steinmetzer 
Subject: Re: Lin

>I have tried to run your ASCII art object but I don't Know ans haven't got
>"Lin"
>Where can I find it ?
>

Roland,

 and  are part of Peter Elsea's Lobjects.
They used to be at ftp://arts.ucsc.edu/pub/ems/Lupdates
I tried to verify the location but I just couldn't get a connection with
the server, even with Fetch.

Roby Steinmetzer
Luxembourg, Europe

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 21 Oct 1998 14:54:16 -0400
From:    Chris Murtagh Hrdc-drhc 
Subject: Re: Lin

From: "Roby Steinmetzer" , on 10/21/98 3:55 PM:
>I tried to verify the location but I just couldn't get
>a connection with the server, even with Fetch.

I don't know about you guys, but lately I've been finding that Fetch is
totally un-reliable. This is especially true with my iMacs and the version
of Open Transport that they come with. Instead I've been using NetFinder
(Shareware, not freeware). It is much more user friendly than most FTP
clients (although Fetch was pretty simple to use also), and it works really
well. Worth registering.

Chris
---------------------------------
A civilization that burns books sooner or later ends up burning people.

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 21 Oct 1998 13:20:00 -0700
From:    David Zicarelli 
Subject: Re: record~ : sync output

david stevens  writes:

>does anyone know if the sync output of the record~ object is working yet?
(it
>says that it isn't in the help file that i have). I'm hoping to be able to
do
>(almost) simultaneous record and playback, and I'm assuming (tho' I may be
>wrong) that the sync output will allow me to do this (yes/no?)

Yes, the sync output works as of the MSP that was updated last
August, I just forgot to update the help file (the manual was updated).
If it doesn't work as well as you had expected, I will try to improve
it.

David Z.

------------------------------

End of MAX Digest - 20 Oct 1998 to 21 Oct 1998 (#1998-45)
*********************************************************