Subject: MAX Digest - 19 Oct 1998 to 20 Oct 1998 - Special issue (#1998-42)
Date: Tue, 20 Oct 1998 14:54:59 -0400
From: Automatic digest processor 
Reply-To: MAX - Interactive Music/Multimedia Standard Environments
To: Recipients of MAX digests 

There are 23 messages totalling 735 lines in this issue.

Topics in this special issue:

  1. down sampling in MSP
  2. Message from Internet
  3. NuBus stuff
  4. the anti-crap comity
  5. Max vs C, glassbeads
  6. Real People
  7. installing MAX 3.5.9
  8. max vs. c
  9. sprintf in overdrive (2)
 10. G3 boards for 8100s
 11. \\ la kr!ze : ciel! amour! =?iso-8859-1?Q?libert=E9=21?= euel
     =?iso-8859-1?Q?r=EAve.?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?_?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?=F4?= pauvre
 12. check failed zgetfn
 13. what comity ??? (2)
 14. anti-crap comity
 15. IDE CD object
 16. MAX Digest - 18 Oct 1998 to 19 Oct 1998 (#1998-41)
 18. Message from ADMIN. Please read.
 19. outrageous
 20. Max 2.5.2 rules!!
 21. 'listToSymbol' now available

Email to MAX should now be sent to
LISTSERV commands should be sent to
Information is available on the WEB at


Date:    Mon, 19 Oct 1998 21:36:27 -0700
From:    David Zicarelli 
Subject: Re: down sampling in MSP

Shamus Jary Mcconney  writes:

>I was under the assumption that down sampling was not an option in MSP,
>but I just checked out the pluggo info page,it looks realy cool David, and
>there was mention of a sample-rate/bit-depth reducer alg.  This would
>greatly help me with pitch tracking of lower freqs.  I usualy down sample
>2 time in FTS for tracking guitar with pt~.

The sample rate/bit depth reduction algorithm is based on a
forthcoming MSP object being developed in the Cycling '74
advanced projects research laboratory.

For the pitchtracking application, I recently modified the MSP
version of pt~ to do downsampling internal to the object.
I'll pass it to IRCAM soon and they can distribute it as they
see fit. I'm also hoping to see downsampling added to fiddle~
one of these days.

Downsampling is not the same as the sample-rate reduction
algorithm, which is intended to produce a reduction only in
audio quality while maintaining the actual sampling rate.

David Z.


Date:    Mon, 19 Oct 1998 21:44:32 -0700
From:    David Zicarelli 
Subject: Re: Message from Internet

Stephen Kay  writes:

>>must now fend off david zicarellis also.  verdammt.
>>it just doesnt end.
>I like that plural.  As if there's more than one.

No Stephen, Antiorp has just revealed another of my secrets: the
clones. The clones are coming. Just in time for Halloween. And you
wondered how I manage to be so productive.

David Z.


Date:    Mon, 19 Oct 1998 21:21:04 -0700
From:    David Zicarelli 
Subject: Re: NuBus stuff

David Crandall  asks:

>More to the point, does supercollider/ Max/MSP work on any NuBus cards,
>incl AM II?

MSP has unsupported "support" for the's unsupported because
the Digi driver on which it's based isn't being maintained.

David Z.


Date:    Mon, 19 Oct 1998 21:30:45 -0700
From:    David Zicarelli 
Subject: Re: the anti-crap comity

Danny Wiseburgh  writes:

>i propose to appoint to this comity our underpaid overworked list keeper
>(if he's still available), David Z. the maxlord himself, and maybe another
>honored member or two. if the MCGILL democracy comity don't like this idea,
>maybe cycling74 would like to host the max list instead (this actually has
>some logic to it if you think about it for more than 500 ms with overdrive

With all due respect to Mr. Wiseburgh, I would reject the offer
to be involved in either patrolling or hosting the Max list. Suppose
there were some pressure to "do something" about someone with a lot of
time on their hands who was disrupting the list. Any move I made
toward "cleansing" would instantly be bandied all over the net as
commercial censorship of the very worst kind. Something like this
recently happened in relation to some Digidesign support list.

David Z.


Date:    Mon, 19 Oct 1998 22:12:04 -0700
From:    David Zicarelli 
Subject: Re: Max vs C, glassbeads

Peter Elsea  writes:

>*The 1ms granularity of the Max scheduler will slow down some things you
>can do at full speed in C code, particularly iterative operations.

For such situations, an Uzi comes in handy.

David Z.


Date:    Tue, 20 Oct 1998 03:06:50 -0000
From:    Andrew Brouse 
Subject: Real People

>Oh, jeez, my heart pumps piss for you antiorp.  Why don't
>you phu koff and leave the real people on this list alone?

Believe it or not, there are *REAL* people on this list who actually
enjoy A's irreverent and quirky sense of humour.  It certainly takes the
edge off the one-dimensional programmer banter.  Lest we forget, many
people are using Max and other such tools to creative ends and not just
for the generation of income.  In this "alternate reality", divergent
opinions and innovative approaches to subject matter are always valued.
A* may not always be my cup of tea but I do value A's presence on the

>the 16/10/98 digest shows that someone untied the leash around anticorps
>CPU. it decided, once again mind you, to publicly insult a member of this
>list with its verbal incomprehensible crap, for no other reason but an itch
>in its right toe (or maybe for lack of sex with a real other anticrap).

Who is insulting whom?

Somewhere within the Constitution of the United States of America, "The
Greatest Nation on Earth", there is a statement about the value of
divergent opinions and views, especially those which are  unpopular, to
the maintenance of a healthy democratic society.  To paraphrase Noam
Chomsky: 'freedom of speech is not the freedom to express opinions with
which we agree but precisely the freedom to express opinions with which
we disagree.'

/*         Andrew Brouse                         */
/*         Computer Applications in Music        */
/*         McGill University                     */
/*         Montreal, Quebec, Canada              */
/*                                               */
/*  "I love music, any kind of music             */
/*   I love music, just as long as its groovy"   */
/*                                               */
/*     Gamble and Huff, as sung by the O'Jays    */
/*                                               */


Date:    Tue, 20 Oct 1998 10:04:13 +0200
From:    Frank Schweizer 
Subject: installing MAX 3.5.9


i'm working with MAX 3.5.9 and would like to download
MAX 3.5.9 from the internet.
but on the other side I'm afraid to loose an authorisation
while upgrading (someone told me so).
is this right?
and what can I do?
thanks in advance,



frank schweizer
tel.+fax: (49)-721-92 111 95


Date:    Tue, 20 Oct 1998 11:20:15 +0200
From:    Danny Wiseburgh 
Subject: Re: max vs. c

>Date:    Mon, 19 Oct 1998 11:47:15 -0400
>From:    Stephen Kay 
>Subject: max vs. c
>Believe me, I've tried to make a commercial application in Max, and
>in my opinion it just isn't really possible - although maybe that will
>change in a future release.
>Stephen Kay
>---------------------- The MegaMAX Collection ----------------------
> Over 30 Max objects for the creation of more professional looking, =
>         feeling, and functioning patchers and applications.
>------------------------ Free Max objects! -------------------------

ok. this is just a little to much for me.

the man (Stephen Kay) that made it possible (with his MegaMax collection)
for any dimm wit (even u know who) to make sleek looking programs under the
max programming environment (true Magic) says about commercial application
in Max: "in my opinion it just isn't really possible".

guys - it is possible - a lot thanks to Stephen (and maybe a bit of credit
should go to David 2...).

Stephen - take a happy pill

those of you that havn't got the MegaMax collection yet - shell out the $50
smackers and start supporting this great piece of software.

Danny Wiseburgh
a dude with an attitude


Date:    Tue, 20 Oct 1998 11:20:36 +0200
From:    Danny Wiseburgh 
Subject: sprintf in overdrive

>Sorry to bother you...
>But the sprintf object's incapability to handle ascii conversion of the
>number 46,
>if it's not given andy surrounding spaces,
>and with max in overdrive,
>must be a real bug (?).
>If it's in sprintf or in the underlying C function is not up to me to
>and I'll also admit that this is probably a very specific use of max, and
>that it won't make a difference to most users.
>Happy (again) max'in
>Oeyvind Brandtsegg

the fact is that sprintf WILL crash max if used if overdrive with tight
timing. the itoa object WILL do this too. something to do with the way way
they alocate memory during interrupt time.

there is only one maxlord who can fix this broken piece of magic.

David ? any chance of fixing this problem between MSP, Max 4BOS, Windows
NT, Max 4 and cycling with the wife and kids (dont u sleep?). maybe let us
change the interrupt memory stack pool manually (just a shot in the dark)

Danny Wiseburgh


Date:    Tue, 20 Oct 1998 05:10:26 +0000
From:    rb 
Subject: Re: G3 boards for 8100s

> David Crandall wrote:
> > Just spoke to a friend who is a Mac doctor and said that the 8100
> > with a G3 upgrade turns into one hell of a nice computer.  Anyone
> > tried sound on such a beast?
> You know, I have been contemplating just that - getting one of the
> G3 borads for my 8100. I have seen two companies : Sonnus and Newer
> Tech's boards in the magazines and was wondering if anyone else
> has done it. As far as my stock 8100, it does audio just fine.

arboretum said (a while back) that they were having problems with their
products in some machines that have g3 cards in them.

i don't know what the status is now.

i think WAVES said they weren't have any problems.


Date:    Tue, 20 Oct 1998 05:15:41 -0600
From:    =cw4t7abs 
Subject: \\ la kr!ze : ciel! amour! =?iso-8859-1?Q?libert=E9=21?= euel
         =?iso-8859-1?Q?r=EAve.?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?_?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?=F4?=
         pauvre folle

>Date:    Tue, 20 Oct 1998 05:55:11 +0200
>From:    Danny Wiseburgh 
>Subject: the anti-crap comity
>the 16/10/98 digest shows that someone untied the leash around anticorps
>CPU. it decided, once again mind you, to publicly insult a member of this
>list with its verbal incomprehensible crap,
>how quickly we forget that this thing almost killed our lovely list last
>week. i cant understand why this society can't protect itself from
>parasites of this nature.
>All we have to do is create an anti-crap comity with a full mandate to keep
>this list civilized. the language on this list should also be one that is
>understood by at least 1 other member of the list.
>p.s. by now, Mr. Crap is probably launching its ascii-shop program, trying
>to pick up a few spelling mistakes i made (as de-kois of kors), so we can
>all see how clever, sleek, and quit brilliant a 5 year old can actually be
>(if one forgets to turn off the lights at 12night).
>come on you tiny bully
>- lets see how sharp YOU are when the magnifying
>glass is over you.

>(alternatively, apologize [in english, french or chinese] to those that you
>accidentally insulted, abused or vomited over, and lets all get on with the

              je crois en toi ! je crois en toi ! divine m=E8re,
              aphrodit=E9 marine ! - oh ! la route est am=E8re
              depuis que l'autre dieu nous attelle =E0 sa croix;
              chair, marbre, fleur, venus, c'est en toi que je crois !
              - oui l'homme est triste et laid, triste sous le ciel vaste,
              il a des v=EAtements, parce qu'il n'est plus chaste,
              parce qu'il a sali son fier buste de dieu,
              et qu'il a rabougri, comme une idole au feu,
              son corps olympien aux servitudes sales !
              oui, m=EAme apr=E8s la mort, dans les squelettes p=E2les

              il veut vivre, insultant la premi=E8re beaut=E9 !, -
              et l'idole o=F9 tu mis tant de virginit=E9,
              o=F9 tu divinisas notre argile, la femme,
              afin que l'homme p=FBt =E9clairer sa pauvre =E2me
              et monter lentement, dans un immense amour,
              de la prison terrestre =E0 la beaut=E9 du jour,
              la femme ne sait plus m=EAme =EAtre courtisane ! -
              c'est une bonne farce ! et le monde ricane
              au nom doux et sacr=E9 de la grande venus !

              si les temps revenaient, les temps qui sont venus !
              - car l'homme a fini ! l'homme a jou=E9 tous les r=F4les !
              au grand jour, fatigu=E9 de briser des idoles
              il ressuscitera, libre de tous ses dieux,
              et, comme il est du ciel, il scrutera les cieux !
              l'id=E9al, la pens=E9e invincible, =E9ternelle,
              tout le dieu qui vit, sous son argile charnelle,
              montera, montera, br=FBlera sous son front !
              et quand tu le verras sonder tout l'horizon,
              contempteur des vieux jougs, libre de toute crainte,
              tu viendras lui donner la r=E9demption sainte !
              - splendide, radieuse, au sein des grandes mers
              tu surgiras, jetant sur le vaste univers
              l'amour infini dans un infini sourire !
              le monde vibrera comme une immense iyre
              dans le fr=E9missement d'un immense baiser

              - le monde a soif d'amour: tu viendras l'apaiser.

              o splendeur de la chair ! =F4 splendeur id=E9ale !
              o renouveau d'amour, aurore triomphale
              o=F9, courbant =E0 leurs pieds les dieux et les h=E9ros
              kallipige la blanche et le petit
              eros effleureront, couverts de la neige des roses,
              les femmes et les fleurs sous leurs beaux pieds =E9closes !
              o grande ariadn=E9, qui jettes tes sanglots
              sur la rive, en voyant fuir l=E0-bas sur les flots
              blanche sous le soleil, la voile de th=E9s=E9e,
              o douce vierge enfant qu'une nuit a bris=E9e,
              tais toi !


Date:    Tue, 20 Oct 1998 09:51:44 +0200
From:    Oeyvind Brandtsegg 
Subject: Re: check failed zgetfn

> BTW: did u notice an "overdrive stack error" before the "check failed
> zgetfn (loadbang): corrupt object" error - if so you have some house
> cleaning to do.

Nope. No overdrive stack error.
I might have some house cleaning to do, but that's entirely a different
matter :-)



Date:    Tue, 20 Oct 1998 14:17:51 +0200
From:    Robert Henke 
Subject: what comity ???

Danny Wiseburgh, calm down ! please !!!


Date:    Tue, 20 Oct 1998 09:01:52 +0000
From:    Carlton Joseph Wilkinson 
Subject: Re: anti-crap comity

I don't see anything offensive from =cw4t7abs in the 16/10/98 digest, or
anywhere else in the last week.

On the other hand, Danny and Steven have posted some horribly insulting
flames--which are distinctly against this list's policy.



Date:    Tue, 20 Oct 1998 15:29:48 +0200
From:    Martin Grube 
Subject: Re: sprintf in overdrive

>From: Danny Wiseburgh 
>Subject: sprintf in overdrive
>Date: Die, 20. Okt 1998 11:20 Uhr
>the fact is that sprintf WILL crash max if used if overdrive with tight
>timing. the itoa object WILL do this too. something to do with the way way
>they alocate memory during interrupt time.
Sometimes I get an an error ceck failed: newptr in overdrive
or something like that. To me it looks like it comes from atoi, but
I'm not quite shure.

So I come to another question: is there a way to make a single symbol out of
several list items?
Steven Kay's Buttons require a symbol to change the display text, and I'd
like to display a combination of characters and numbers.

Thanks for any help.



Date:    Tue, 20 Oct 1998 09:27:08 -0600
From:    Todd Welbourne 
Subject: IDE CD object

At the end of the summer I remember David Z. saying that he had posted an
update to the cd object that allowed it to work with IDE as well as SCSI cd
drives. I am now back to trying to get my powerbook 1400 cd-drive to speak
to max.  The latest cd object at the Cycling '74 site is dated May,
1997--doesn't work on my machine.  Is this the latest version? Is there
another posting somewhere else? TIA,TW


Date:    Tue, 20 Oct 1998 10:05:14 -0500
From:    "one Cointreau, on ice...." 
Subject: Re: MAX Digest - 18 Oct 1998 to 19 Oct 1998 (#1998-41)

>antiorp not chained to our rules. antiorp no respect.
>fuck you antiorp. silence antiorp. frame antiorp. blame antiorp.

Yada yada yada. It's probably safer to assume that some number
of readers here might be perfectly happy to set our pomo irony
bits to 1 for brief periods of time, but that said decision ought
to take f!tnesz (or, to be more correct, f!tngnesz) into account.
While I'm sure it's jolly sport for the writer, fun with phonics
wankery isn't always conducive to signal/noise balances that
obtain when playing with others. While you're perfectly free to
believe that some lack of interest in playing in your sandbox
constitutes censorship (cue video of mean Nazis throwing books
into fires), a clean close shave with ol' Occam's razor would
suggest to me that there's a simpler answer. You want be understood?
Speak the language. Otherwise, you're just another stupid tourist
standing in the agora in a far-away land screaming about how unfair
it is that you can't get any cheez doodles in a language no one

Your mileage may vary....

|=============== Artesyn Communication Products, Inc. ================|
|                                                                     |
| Gregory Taylor                    Email: |
| Marketing Communications Manager  Phone: 608-831-5500               |
| 8310 Excelsior Drive              Fax:   608-831-4249               |
| Madison, WI 53717-1935                                              |
|    Hoi, digerati! Wil je even surfen?      |


Date:    Tue, 20 Oct 1998 17:05:33 +0100
From:    Guy Van Belle 

> Christopher Murtagh  writes:
>> Thanks for enduring the emails David. I guess I should now buy MSP. Say,
>>does it run under MAX 2.5.2? :) (I'll probably have to upgrade that too).
> This is outrageous. The list owner uses Max 2.5.2? I'm unsubscribing.
> David Z.

Now David, this is a strange way of thinking.
Chris is a list moderator and I cannot see why an upgrade of Max can help
him doing his job better! Unless Max 3.5 (and beyond) is able to create
artificial tools for better moderation.
Oh! now I see! David, would you be able to make a list-owner object to
handle the job? Then Chris should get an upgrade for free, since he is
replaced by #P_list-owner he can concentrate on music again!

Hey David, you still there?

[sentence stolen from mail by "" ]
"Dear Sir/Mdm,
First of all, we would like to apologize if this our message disturbing you"           


Date:    Tue, 20 Oct 1998 11:32:13 -0400
From:    David Crandall 
Subject: Re: what comity ???

On Tue, 20 Oct 1998, Robert Henke wrote:

> Danny Wiseburgh, calm down ! please !!!

yeh, what he said...

i keep waitin for the comity, but no laffs yet...



Date:    Tue, 20 Oct 1998 11:38:35 -0400
From:    Chris Murtagh Hrdc-drhc 
Subject: Message from ADMIN. Please read.

Dear MAXers

This is what Paul Braunbehrens (the DAW-MAC listserv admin) has posted to
his list, and it applies here also:

Please do not take it upon yourself to police the list.  Leave that to me,
and if you feel the need you can email me and ask me to deal with any
problem you see.  The reason for this is that policing of off topic threads
by list members actually makes the off topic threads last longer.

Any message that is personal in nature should go to the recipient, not the

Any complaint about a message on the list should go to me
 or the recipient, not the list.

Any comment about the list, it's contents etc. should go to me
, not the list.

For other questions about list policy, or administration please email me
. There will soon be a www document on this (just
waiting for it to be posted).

Replies to this message go to me , not the list.


Christopher Murtagh
MAX listserv owner


Date:    Tue, 20 Oct 1998 09:48:34 -0700
From:    Peter Elsea 
Subject: outrageous

>This is outrageous. The list owner uses Max 2.5.2? I'm unsubscribing.

I suggest we get together and take up a collection to get Chris up to
speed. It's the least we could do to repay him for his services.

Peter Elsea
Electronic Music Studios
University of California, Santa Cruz


Date:    Tue, 20 Oct 1998 13:04:02 -0400
From:    Chris Murtagh Hrdc-drhc 
Subject: Max 2.5.2 rules!!

From: David Zicarelli  Sun, 18 Oct 1998 22:47:57
>This is outrageous. The list owner uses Max 2.5.2? I'm unsubscribing.


 For that violent outburst, I am booting you. :)

Max 2.5.2 is/was fantastic. It runs on my IIfx without any problems, the
Copy Protection is easily bypassed (I think I have lost about 8
authorizations to date, luckily I have infinite) and I don't need OMS.

So, when I make the leap into the 20th century, I don't think I will
upgrade (is there an upgrade path from 2.5.2 --> 3.5?) but rather just buy
3.5.9 outright. This way I can keep using my old patches on my IIfx (or its
replacement, a 7100 with a G3 upgrade).

From: "Peter Elsea" , on 10/20/98 12:48 PM:
>I suggest we get together and take up a collection to get Chris up to
>speed. It's the least we could do to repay him for his services.

:) heh.

 I hope you are kidding. I do appreciate the gesture, but it is really not
necessary. If you really want to do something like this, buy a copy and
donate it to a high school (on my behalf if you want). I'm sure there are
many that could use it.

Keep on Maxin' (and Ditherin'),

A society that burns books sooner or later ends up burning people.


Date:    Tue, 20 Oct 1998 14:54:19 -0400
From:    Stephen Kay 
Subject: 'listToSymbol' now available

Martin Grube:
>So I come to another question: is there a way to make a single
>symbol out of several list items? Stephen Kay's Buttons require
>a symbol to change the display text, and I'd like to display a
>combination of characters and numbers.

There is now:

Announcing the availability of the "listToSymbol" object, at:

It's *free*, and not part of the MegaMAX Collection.  Consider it
compensation for having to read some of my anti-krapmatr messages.

It will take a list of items (ints, floats, symbols, or any mixture)
and spit it back out as a single symbol. You can have it remove spaces
(i.e. so "I'm Not A Nazi" becomes "I'mNotANazi"). You can change the
separator (default =3D space) to any other character or symbol (i.e.
so "permit it to vomit" becomes "permit_it_to_vomit").

It's not necessarily idiot-proof, so let me know if you find any bugs.

Here's a little fun I had.  I used the 'set_separator" message
with *ant!orp*.  =

Then I ran this sentence through the object.  Here is the result:


I think I'll use it for all my mail from now on.

Stephen Kay
The MegaMAX Collection:


End of MAX Digest - 19 Oct 1998 to 20 Oct 1998 - Special issue (#1998-42)