Subject: MAX Digest - 12 Oct 1998 to 13 Oct 1998 - Special issue (#1998-34)
Date: Tue, 13 Oct 1998 20:34:15 -0400
From: Automatic digest processor 
Reply-To: MAX - Interactive Music/Multimedia Standard Environments
To: Recipients of MAX digests 

There are 17 messages totalling 742 lines in this issue.

Topics in this special issue:

  1. Video Sampler (update) (2)
  2. MAX Digest - 12 Oct 1998
  3. MAXpowr G3 card and MSP?
  4. movie
  5. gransyn
  6. Howe to read....... (2)
  7. Granular stuff
  8. Rolland GR-50
  9. The debate is over. Please read.
 10. scaling 1 fader relative to another (2)
 11. Max I/O
 13. |  |            -        -           |  |            -
 14. message from antiorp

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Date:    Tue, 13 Oct 1998 01:04:34 -0500
From:    Johnny DeKam 
Subject: Video Sampler (update)

>It could be very cool to have within max an easy way to trigger video. why
>it's so hard to do?. It sould be the same thing that dealing with audio
>but with heavier data files and the quicktime implementation.

I couldn't agree with you more...
a few weeks ago, I announced plans for a professional video sampler written
in MAX after (early) results with Iomega buz hardware looked promising.

Now that I put MAX through some heavy duty testing, I am once again
discouraged by
MAX's ability to handle QuickTime, and have abandoned the idea of authoring
a public release
video sampler in MAX. :(

However, I am not discouraged about still working on the project, and I'm
pleased to announce
I've entered into a collaborative arrangement with a C/C++ developer in
Australia, Russell Clark, aka author of the QuickTime 3 compatible "Play It
Cool" movieplayer.-- this will enable me to leverage
the full power of the QuickTime SDK, including real time capture and

It's a bummer that this new video sampler won't be written in MAX, but
rejoice, it will be
include a full OMS implementation, and thus should talk to MAX quite nicely.

Now that the virtual sky is the limit, I am still soliciting suggestions for
included features
in this new 'killer app'...

stay tuned!

Johnny DeKam


Date:    Tue, 13 Oct 1998 09:59:21 +0000
From:    david stevens 
Subject: Re: MAX Digest - 12 Oct 1998

richard wrote:
> sorry for the delay~. (sorry for the stupid pun)
no apologies, the levity is desperately needed, and much appreciated!




Date:    Tue, 13 Oct 1998 10:18:25 +0000
From:    Neville John Cross 
Subject: MAXpowr G3 card and MSP?

I didn't see this msg. appear on the list so I am sending it again.

>Does anyone have any experience using MSP on a Powerbook 1400 with G3 CPU
>upgrade?  Does anyone (e.g. David Z.) know of any reason (whether based on
>experience or not) why a PB1400 with G3/233 would run MSP slower than a new
>desktop G3/233?

In fact,has anyone tried any of the Newer Technology MAXpowr G3 upgrade
cards -especially for the 7100 -with MSP. Should this work with a
7100,David Z?


Date:    Tue, 13 Oct 1998 13:27:27 -0000
From:    Peter Castine 
Subject: Re: movie

I'm slowly catching up with old mail after three weeks on the road...

On Sat, 3 Oct 1998 17:59:51 EDT ACDCVC@AOL.COM wrote:
>Jeff Burns just showed me a revised movie object by Peter Castine that
>positions itself off to the side without the title bar to use with a second
>monitor.  Fantastic!!!  Does anyone have one that positions itself in the
>middle of the screen?

Glad you like the patched moovie object. It was not at all a big deal to
do after David Z. sent me the source code to the "official" movie object.
I think I modified about two lines of code and recompiled (once I'd read
through the code and understood what was going on). I have a vague
recollection that there was a third line of code miles away from the
other changes that I had to tweak, so it was just a bit longer than a
coffee-break project.

Alas, I don't even have free coffee breaks any more (check out the
..sig... and yes, Virginia, organizing ICMC 2000 means mucho work as early
as 1998), so I'm not volunteering to modify movie to auto-center the
window. If I understood David correctly, he had intended to publish the
source code to movie on the Max CD but somehow it didn't quite happen. If
lots of people want to tweak their own versions of the external, maybe
you could make the source available at the Cycling '74 WWW/FTP Site,

If people can convince David that the movie object is a major selling
point for Max, he might be inclined to put some more features & polish on
the external. As it is, I have the impression that it was conceived more
as a freebie technology demonstration (giving other people a start on how
to do cool stuff) and that David didn't want to spend a lot of effort on

Sorry if this is all too late to help Jeffrey K. My e-mail address is
below (and has been in about a zillion Max digests but, like a cop, you
can never find one when you need one).


Peter -- 99.4% antiorp-free mail, but sorry to see Chris go.

Dr. Peter Castine          | I am very pleased to announce that the
4-15 Music & Technology    | 26th International Computer Music Conference
                           | will take place in Berlin in the year 2000.
                           | We look forward to seeing you here!


Date:    Tue, 13 Oct 1998 08:47:54 -0400
From:    David Crandall 
Subject: Re: Video Sampler (update)

On Tue, 13 Oct 1998, Johnny DeKam wrote:

> Now that the virtual sky is the limit, I am still soliciting suggestions
> included features
> in this new 'killer app'...

I believe a couple of us were talking about scrubbing audio as a choice.
How about multiple choice:

no sound / tape-style(pitch change with scrub) / "granular-style"




Date:    Tue, 13 Oct 1998 23:20:23 +1000
From:    overlobe@OZEMAIL.COM.AU
Subject: gransyn

>I saw GS in Liverpool recently. They work with realtime granulation of
>sound and video using multiple video projections and a very big PA. (In
>Liverpool they had a 50K PA in a room the size of an average dining
>hall). The effect is very physical and disorientating - I can see why
>David Z fainted and had a panic attack - seems a perfectly reasonable
>response under the circumstances.

their show in tokyo last year with sensorband was wicked too...
something my body won't ever forget that's for sure.

>PS If you go to see GS - take (and use!) earplugs. I took some but did
>not use them and regreted it for the next 3 days!!

true story.
sunglasses would be good if they're indoors too. (just in case)

                  / \


Date:    Tue, 13 Oct 1998 15:53:51 +0200
From:    Mats Claesson 
Subject: Howe to read.......

Sorry I m new to the list so could some one decode this, and what is
=46orbiden Planet example:

David Zicarelli wrote:

Subject: Howe to read.......

Mats c:
>Sorry I m new to the list so could some one decode this, and what is
>Forbiden Planet example:

>David Zicarelli wrote:

>max v2;
>#N vpatcher 50 40 487 406;
>#P button 39 61 15 0;

It's a Max patcher.  Cut out all the text from "max v2" on down to
"pop;", then go into Max, choose "New Text" from the menu, paste it
in, save it with some name, then reopen it and it's a Max patcher.

The text is what you get when you save any Max patcher "as text" with
the "Save as..." option.  It's an easy way to send Max patchers over
the internet.  Normal Max patchers are saved as binary data.

Stephen Kay
The MegaMAX Collection:


Date:    Tue, 13 Oct 1998 10:52:35 -0700
From:    Matt Wright 
Subject: Re: Granular stuff

dudas writes:

> rgrain~
>      this is an abstraction that I made for my granular patch which is a
> part of the cnmat max/msp night school patch collection.  It was never
> intended tyo be used out of context of the rest of the patch, so there's
> help file, but you should be able to figure out how it works from its
> context withing the prinicpal patch. (I honestly don't remember offhand)

What *I* remember offhand about Richard's extremely cool patch is the way
rgrain~ object handles polyphony.  (In the context of granular synthesis,
polyphony means lots of grains playing at once.)  Handling polyphony in
Max/MSP has always seemed clunky to me, but Richard's patch opened up a
new way for me to think about Max resource allocation.

Basically, a control message comes in the left inlet with all the parameters
of the grain that needs to be played: length, volume, pitch shift, location
the sound file, etc.  That control message goes through a gate whose state
depends on whether this particular rgrain~ instance is currently playing a
grain.  If not, then the rgrain~ changes the gate, plays the requested
and then changes the gate back.  But if the rgrain~ is already in the middle
of a grain, it "delegates" the control message it received by putting it out
its outlet.

So you make as many rgrain~ objects as your maximum desired polyphony, and
connect them up in a line with the left outlet of one going into the left
inlet of the next.  No need for a poly object or a huge collection of route
objects and wires all over the place.

It's a great technique.



Date:    Tue, 13 Oct 1998 13:56:46 EDT
From:    "SETA,MICHAL,MR" 
Subject: Rolland GR-50

Hello everybody,

Has anyone ever tried to write some sort of editor
for the Roland GR-50 synth?

I guess my chances of finding a guitarist/GR-50 user/Max'er
are pretty slim, but hey.  Everything is possible.

The reason I'm asking is that either my understanding is
completely off or the MIDI implementation tables
for that synth contain errors.

Funny enough, commercial editors seem to have problems with
this machine too....

Ideas?  Anyone?



Date:    Tue, 13 Oct 1998 14:05:28 -0400
From:    Chris Murtagh Hrdc-drhc 
Subject: The debate is over. Please read.

Agreement between Christopher Murtagh and antiorp:

- antiorp stays on the MAX listserv (full subscription re-instated).
- Christopher Murtagh stays as listserv owner.
- We both agree that politics, ascii art and putting down other people is
not acceptable.
- antiorp continues to entertain, enlighten us with interesting (short)
bits of info/blurbs.
- antiorp continues to be antiorp with interesting l@ngU@g3.
- The list agrees to no longer bring up this subject (EVER).
- Those who wish to no longer hear from antiorp inquire with Christopher
Murtagh on how to filter email. 

 Do NOT post anything more regarding this subject to the list (pro or con,
NONE, zero, nada, nil). If you have ANY comments, send them to Christopher

Thank you all for your extreme patience through this whole ordeal.


Christopher Murtagh
MAX listserv owner

To say that Windows 95 is just like Mac OS is like finding a potato in the
shape of Jesus and thinking you have witnessed the second coming.


Date:    Tue, 13 Oct 1998 20:24:26 +0000
From:    david stevens 
Subject: scaling 1 fader relative to another

hi all,

this may be clear as day to the more mathematically/logically minded of you
but _I_ need some help!

as part of the patch i'm building, i have a fader controlling the Q of a
bank of
bandpass filters. As i reduce the Q towards zero, the level of the through
obviously increases, to the point where i get digital distortion.What i need
do is to reduce the gain at some point in the patch to compensate, in
to the increase in loudness of the sound.

i'm assuming that i need to combine the output of the 2 relevant faders in
way. but i  want the gain fader to move along with the Q fader, so that
are no jumps in level when i alter the gain fader after changing the Q
fader.That is to say, i need the gain fader to always show its "true"
(so i can't just connect the outputs of the 2 faders to the same place).  it
would be easier if there was some kind of agc patch, but as far as i know
isn't (??).

due to the nature of the patch, there are a number of places where the gain
needs to change over quite a wide range (the level of the sound drops quite
lot when the Q is significantly increased), so i need to use some method to
maintain a constant level of output sound. any suggestions on how to achieve
this will be very gratefully recieved!!




Date:    Tue, 13 Oct 1998 15:50:01 -0500
From:    Jeff Mann 
Subject: Re: Max I/O

> From:    david stevens 
> Subject: granular timestretch; & Max I/O
> hi all,
> thanks to everyone who replied here or directly to me on my query about
> controlling motors from Max. It seems to me that the I-Cube may be the
best bet,
> as I get input as well as output, and the system seems to provide quite a
> of possibilities. Anyone think otherwise (before i spend the money!)?

Although I haven't used it, my opinion is that the I-Cube is kind of a
luxury model, nice but very expensive, and not necessarily much better
performance, depending on your application. If you need 24 channels of
high-speed, high-precision (12-bit) A-to-D conversion (input
digitizing), and/or you want something off-the-shelf in a nice box, then
the I-Cube might be a good choice. However, it is not particularly
well-suited for controlling motors. It does have 8 output bits, but from
what I can tell these are only toggled on/off by MIDI notes, and it has
no provision for PWM output signals required for DC servos and speed
control, or for stepper-motor drive patterns (someone please correct me
if I'm wrong).

I have used the "Mini Serial Servo Controller", which allows you to
control eight or more R/C airplane-style servo motors, with Max's Serial
port object (uses up one of your MIDI ports though). It's $49 from You can control the position of these motors, over
about 200 degrees, with 8-bit resolution. Mediamation also makes a
similar device, controlled via MIDI, with a few more features, $149 I think.

I've also used their Basic Stamp II, also $49, for both input and
output, control of DC, servo, and stepper motors, etc. It can read
volume pots or sliders (anything resistive), or you can add an Analog
Devices A/D converter chip. It can send MIDI, but doesn't receive it
well, so again you may need to use the Serial object. It's a bit more
hacking, but a whole lot less money.

Have a look at my "Art & Robotics Group" web site for various info and
Jeff Mann -


Date:    Tue, 13 Oct 1998 16:48:32 -0400
From:    Stephen Kay 
Subject: scaling 1 fader relative to another

david stevens:
>What i need to
>>do is to reduce the gain at some point in the patch to compensate, in
>to the increase in loudness of the sound.

>i'm assuming that i need to combine the output of the 2 relevant faders =
>way. but i  want the gain fader to move along with the Q fader, so that
>are no jumps in level when i alter the gain fader after changing the Q
>fader.That is to say, i need the gain fader to always show its "true"
>(so i can't just connect the outputs of the 2 faders to the same place).=

>would be easier if there was some kind of agc patch, but as far as i kno=
>isn't (??).

Here's an example patcher I posted awhile back that does precisely
that.  You should be able to modify it to do what you want...

Stephen Kay
---------------------- The MegaMAX Collection ----------------------
 Over 30 Max objects for the creation of more professional looking, =

         feeling, and functioning patchers and applications.

max v2;
#N vpatcher 50 40 727 542;
#P message 51 35 35 196617 set \$1;
#P newex 51 209 27 196617 t i b;
#P user uslider 396 51 18 128 128 1 0 0;
#P newex 84 236 28 196617 grab;
#P number 424 228 35 9 0 0 0 3;
#P newex 80 289 27 196617 -;
#P newex 79 311 27 196617 t b i;
#P newex 49 363 27 196617 +;
#P number 49 386 35 9 0 0 0 3;
#P newex 49 339 27 196617 i;
#P number 53 261 35 9 0 0 0 3;
#P user uslider 138 59 18 128 128 1 0 0;
#P message 138 34 35 196617 set \$1;
#P newex 138 208 27 196617 t i b;
#P newex 171 235 28 196617 grab;
#P newex 167 288 27 196617 -;
#P newex 166 310 27 196617 t b i;
#P newex 136 362 27 196617 +;
#P number 136 385 35 9 0 0 0 3;
#P newex 136 338 27 196617 i;
#P number 140 260 35 9 0 0 0 3;
#P number 227 259 35 9 0 0 0 3;
#P newex 223 337 27 196617 i;
#P number 223 384 35 9 0 0 0 3;
#P newex 223 361 27 196617 +;
#P newex 253 309 27 196617 t b i;
#P newex 254 287 27 196617 -;
#P newex 258 234 28 196617 grab;
#P newex 225 207 27 196617 t i b;
#P message 225 33 35 196617 set \$1;
#P user uslider 225 58 18 128 128 1 0 0;
#P user uslider 51 60 18 128 128 1 0 0;
#P comment 302 341 100 196617 each slider stores the
last position of the master slider when it is moved.;
#P comment 300 394 100 196617 This is used as an offset
to subtract from the actual master value;
#P connect 2 0 32 0;
#P fasten 31 0 28 0 401 281 85 281;
#P fasten 31 0 18 0 401 277 172 277;
#P fasten 31 0 7 0 401 273 259 273;
#P connect 31 0 29 0;
#P connect 33 0 2 0;
#P connect 24 0 26 0;
#P connect 27 0 24 0;
#P connect 27 1 26 1;
#P connect 26 0 25 0;
#P fasten 25 0 33 0 54 407 26 407 26 31 56 31;
#P connect 14 0 16 0;
#P connect 30 0 23 0;
#P connect 30 0 28 1;
#P fasten 30 1 31 0 107 255 389 255 389 45 401 45;
#P connect 28 0 27 0;
#P connect 32 0 24 1;
#P fasten 32 1 30 0 73 230 89 230;
#P connect 17 0 14 0;
#P connect 17 1 16 1;
#P connect 16 0 15 0;
#P connect 21 0 22 0;
#P connect 22 0 20 0;
#P connect 18 0 17 0;
#P fasten 15 0 21 0 141 406 113 406 113 30 143 30;
#P connect 19 0 13 0;
#P connect 19 0 18 1;
#P fasten 19 1 31 0 194 259 377 259 377 41 401 41;
#P connect 4 0 3 0;
#P connect 3 0 5 0;
#P connect 20 0 14 1;
#P fasten 20 1 19 0 160 229 176 229;
#P connect 11 0 9 0;
#P fasten 10 0 4 0 228 405 200 405 200 29 230 29;
#P connect 9 0 10 0;
#P connect 8 0 11 0;
#P connect 8 1 9 1;
#P connect 7 0 8 0;
#P connect 6 0 12 0;
#P connect 6 0 7 1;
#P fasten 6 1 31 0 281 262 371 262 371 37 401 37;
#P connect 5 0 11 1;
#P fasten 5 1 6 0 247 228 263 228;
#P pop;


Date:    Tue, 13 Oct 1998 18:16:26 -0400
From:    Antiorp Antiorp 

Today at 4pm PT (7pm ET),
CNBC will air a piece on the outlook for Apple's earnings and for the
company in general. This story comes as a precursor to Apple's announcement
tomorrow, where the company will be discussing fiscal results, iMac
Research Data, and a major new release of the Macintosh operating system.
As part of this story, CNBC explores the role of Apple's developer


>Look for Ghost Mouse software on the internet.  It works great!  No way of
>doing it that I know of within MAX.

ma! w!sh 2 chek bzump objekt !n :
!t beepz az well due2 odr beep objekt
zmakd numerouz max patchez 4 unknoun reazonz

bzump !=3D dokumntd - zrprz


>2. Video granular synthesis whats this all about
 antiorp tried to tear our nervous system apart :
>what does it look like? any web pages where I could
>se examples of this?

 - v!deo + aud!o + m9ndfukc granulr s!nthes!z

 |abs|  - krvava gruda-plodna zemlja
punKtproTokol[4'7c     m9ndfukc.macht.fre! <


Date:    Tue, 13 Oct 1998 19:04:50 -0400
From:    =cw4t7abs 
Subject: |  |            -        -           |  |            -

   -           |  |            -        -           |  |            -
fr2ktur          |  |            -        -           |  |            -
   -           |  |            -        -           |  |            -


Date:    Tue, 13 Oct 1998 17:55:51 -0800
From:    Gene Schwartz 
Subject: message from antiorp

I choose to forward this because I think it is worthwhile. please make any
insults original ones.

>regardless of outcome
>[=cw4t7abs is no longer personally concerned with.
>as the amount of pain experienced by everyone has
>taken precedence]
>would like to state that am hopeful everyone has learned [oops]
>to be more sensitive. compassionate. considerate. and tolerant
>towards other life forms. =cw4t7abs has learned [oops] the above.
>\\ or for the more "academically" inclined.
>the introduction of parasites into an environment leads to higher fitness
>of all organisms in said environment. the absence or removal of parasites
>from an environment leads the organisms' fitness to become stuck at a local
>[parasite defined as competing life form] [may also be applied to
>the anti-censorship argument however it isn't presented here as such]
>written in correct english for selfish reasons.
>compute reason if so inclined but please do not
>automatically assume it is the intended one.

"I began to add a few things up and realized there was no way I could come
from a little town in Iowa, be eating 2,000 people a year, and nobody said
anything about it"


End of MAX Digest - 12 Oct 1998 to 13 Oct 1998 - Special issue (#1998-34)