Subject: MAX Digest - 11 Oct 1998 to 12 Oct 1998 - Special issue (#1998-32)
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 19:27:54 -0400
From: Automatic digest processor 
Reply-To: MAX - Interactive Music/Multimedia Standard Environments
     
To: Recipients of MAX digests 

There are 21 messages totalling 709 lines in this issue.

Topics in this special issue:

  1. Goodbye
  2. Re  Concert action:
  3. Taille critique ?
  4. Thanks to Chris
  5. ggrrrraannuuuul l  l  llaaaaarrrr r   r      r     r
  6. granular..
  7. granular timestretch; & Max I/O
  8. right TrapKat
  9. Antiorp, since you brought it up
 10. antiorp speaks
 11. politics, logical types and servers (3)
 12. groove~
 13. Granular Synthesis
 14. critical thinking (before everybody leaves)
 15. kat controllers
 16. minor MSP update
 17. Stop
 18. Night School (was Re: granular timestretch; & Max I/O)
 19. I can't believe it.

Email to MAX should now be sent to MAX@lists.mcgill.ca
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Information is available on the WEB at http://www.mcgill.ca/cc/listserv

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 11 Oct 1998 21:32:32 -0700
From:    Richard Zvonar 
Subject: Re: Goodbye

At 8:47 PM -0700 10/11/98, Eric Singer wrote:
>Thanks to all of you who have ruined the Max list for the last few weeks
>with this ridiculous Antiorp crap...you know who you are.  I am
>unsubscribing for the rest of the month.  I hope that when I return, the
>list is back to being used for the purpose for which it is intended.
>Otherwise I am gone for good.

Eric, you have been a mainstay of the Max community for years. It would be
a major loss to that community if you, and others like you, were to leave
because of this recent foolishness.

As ironic as it seems, I for one wish to go on record in favor of a more
restrictive list policy concerning spamming, ad hominem attacks, and
political blather. Those of you who know me personally may find that
amusing, but I've seen too many on-line communities torn to shreds by this
sort of bullshit.

To Chris Murtagh I express my regrets that you had to put up with this
situation, and I hope you will indeed bounce the rest of the orpniks before
you retire.

______________________________________________________________________________
Richard Zvonar, PhD                              zvonar@LCSaudio.com
(818) 788-2202 voice                             zvonar@well.com
(818) 788-2203 fax                               zvonar@alum.mit.edu

                          http://www.well.com/~zvonar

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 12 Oct 1998 01:02:55 +0100
From:    Zack Settel 
Subject: Re  Concert action:

Concert Announcement

GEMS presents on Tuesday Oct. 20 at 8 PM,

Pollack Hall
McGill Music Faculty
555 rue Sherbrooke West
Montreal, Quebec

Killer Concert: (bring your own fire extinguisher):

De planos y lejanias (1998) solo tape (World Premiere)   Claudio Ferrari

Layerings (1993) for vibraphone and tape        Michael Matthews
        - Ben Reimer, vibraphone

Cellotape (1965) for 'cello, piano and tape     Lucien Goethals
        - Nigel Edmonton-Boehm, 'cello and Jeremy Thompson, piano

Paradise Workshop part I - Getting A Head and Going Places (1990) short
film
Story and Animation: Jeffrey Lerer
Soundtrack: Mark Ballora

- pause -

Citharizantium -I- (1998) for guitar and computer interaction (World
Premiere) Michal Seta
        - Michal Seta, guitar

Solo for Unprepared Piano  (1998)       Geoff Martin
        - Jason Corey, piano and Geoff Martin, electronics

Punjar  (1997) for soprano sax and live electronics     Zack Settel
        - Zack Settel, saxophone operator

Interactive Electronic Improvisation
        Marcel Wierckx, keyboard & electronics
        Zack Settel, soprano saxophone
        Eric Craven, electric homemades

Tell your friends, kids, lawyers, parents etc.

zack@zeep.com
phone: (1) 514 842 3047
fax:   (1) 514 842 3160

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 12 Oct 1998 08:53:42 +0000
From:    Le Quan Ninh 
Subject: Re: Taille critique ?

Revenons a nos moutons !

-----------------------------
L=EA Quan Ninh
ninh@musique.net
http://www.musique.net/ninh/
ICQ : 17354847
-----------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 12 Oct 1998 10:09:54 +0100
From:    Roby Steinmetzer 
Subject: Thanks to Chris

I think we all should thank Cristopher Murtagh for his valuable job he did
on the Max list.
To bad all this went into that direction.

Thank you Chris.

Roby Steinmetzer
Luxembourg, Europe

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 12 Oct 1998 10:33:20 +0200
From:    Robert Henke 
Subject: ggrrrraannuuuul l  l  llaaaaarrrr r   r      r     r

(...)
> as for granular timestretch - thanks to Matthew for the rgrain~ object - =
i
> think
> i have a basic idea of what's happening, but I'm wondering if perhaps =
there
> is
> any documentation or a help file for it somewhere?

what is the rgrain~ doing? can anyone send it to me please ?

> tomorrow I'm going to try the groove~ patcher that David Z posted in a
> recent
> digest - does this need the new (?) version of groove~ that someone
> mentioned
> recently, or is the standard one fine?

i do not know, but i have this last version of the groove~ object and if
your patcher is not working with your groove~ i would send you mine.

> I more or less have the granulation concept sorted out now, but i'm =
still
> trying
> to figure out how to do the timestretching thing in MSP.

did you have a look at that jimmis abstraction harmv2~ . the help patcher
shows a simple pitch shifter. this could be a basis for your timestrech
thing ??

> to
> wonder if it's going to be so processor intensive to do this, that I =
won't
> have
> enough power left to do the filtering, which is actually the most =
important
> thing that I want to do.

harmv2~  is moderate. i gues you will have enough power left for the
filtering....

> Date:    Mon, 12 Oct 1998 02:09:00 +0900
> From:    nobuyasu sakonda 
> Subject: Re: granular...
>
> I sent my msp granular patch to Mr.Rechard Dudas some month ago. Rechard
> said
> he would post it IRCAM ftp server when next updating.  It seems to me =
IRCAM
> ftp has not been updated yet since April.
>
> My granular patch has very simple structure to solve the problems of =
jitter
> noise and smoothing by using only a few basic msp objects. The way of
> solving
> it is the synchronization of small loop to be played and window wave =
loop
> and
> timing of giving new loop point,etc., by sah~.

hey, that sound intersting, i tried sah~ ,too but  but i didn come along
with a good solution.  if the patcher is not at the IRCAM site, could you
send it to me ???

( one day i will have the biggest granular-for-msp library of the
universe.the day i got the last possible solution the whole thing will
explode into millions of small grains...)

> 1. Ive seen a patch called Gransynth by Richard Dudas,
> available in the MSP NightSchoolFolder, a tutorial
> available on-line Im not sure the URL I guess other
> MAXers on the list would know.

if so, post the URL , friends !

 This is similar to the
> SuperCollider example, and Ive also played around
> with it to do live audio input

fine.

rob.

..........................................................................
M   O   N   O   L   A   K   E
a collaboration between gerhard behles and robert henke
fine computer music since 1865
...........................................................................
www.urbansounds.com/home/studio/audiocode/us_instudio_henke.html
...........................................................................

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 12 Oct 1998 09:21:43 +0000
From:    david stevens 
Subject: Re: granular..

hi nobusayu,

could you let us know the name of your patch, so that i can recognise it
when it appears?

thanks

david

>
> I sent my msp granular patch to Mr.Rechard Dudas some month ago. Rechard
said
> he would post it IRCAM ftp server when next updating.  It seems to me
IRCAM
> ftp has not been updated yet since April.

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 12 Oct 1998 12:07:36 +0200
From:    muki pakesch 
Subject: Re: granular timestretch; & Max I/O

david stevens  wrote:
>a number of people have mentioned the MSP Nightschool. Are the files from
this
>accesible to everyone? where are they?

http://cnmat.CNMAT.Berkeley.EDU/MAX/nightschool/

hth
cheers,
muki

 __________________________________________________________________
| muki pakesch                                                     |
|                                                                  |
| mailto:mpakesch@t0.or.at           http://www.t0.or.at/~mpakesch |
|__________________________________________________________________|

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 12 Oct 1998 14:22:06 +0000
From:    rein HOLD braig 
Subject: Re: right TrapKat

Hi filip,

>but what trapped my interest is  "(out of the right midi out I think) "
>what might this mean? is there left and right midi?

DrumKat v3.5 :

MIDI In: 2 ports (left/right) - for merging and/or filtering and sending to
MIDI Out, either on one or two MIDI Outs.

MIDI Out: 4 ports (2 pairs of right/left), 32 channels.

Mapping of MIDI Data in the .
SysEx In mesaages are only processed on its LEFT MIDI In.

ciao

rein HOLD

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 12 Oct 1998 05:38:23 -0800
From:    Gene Schwartz 
Subject: Re: Antiorp, since you brought it up

Stephen Kay wrote:

>Carlton Joseph Wilkinson:
>>1. He has earned my respect and continues to earn my respect by not
>>caving into shallow, routine standards like those you are trying to
>>apply here and by continuing to be exactly who is.
>
>>>"reszpekt =3D bas!s ov ras!zm. fasc!zm. kap!tal!zm"--=3Dcw4t7abs
>
>antiorp has already said he has no respect for you, or anyone.
>

Don't think that he meant quite that...

>antiorp's ideas have nothing to do with the reason this list exists.
>They are simply blanket knee-jerk reactions to anything which doesn't
>fit into s/he/it's concept that everyone is a kap!tal!st or worse.
>

blanket knee-jerk reaction to everyone who is not a capitalist or worse.

"I began to add a few things up and realized there was no way I could come
from a little town in Iowa, be eating 2,000 people a year, and nobody said
anything about it"

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 12 Oct 1998 05:44:45 -0800
From:    Gene Schwartz 
Subject: Re: antiorp speaks

>Date:    Sun, 11 Oct 1998 03:29:25 -0400
>From:    Stephen Kay 
>Subject: antiorp speaks
>
>Gene Schwartz:
>>antiorp asked me to forward this, and I can't think of a (good) reason n=
>ot
>to:
>
>>>_ !gnorance or impotence _
>
>The good reason not to would have been common sense.  Although I'm glad
>to see antiorp's got religion.
>
>Did we need to read an(other) antiorp manifesto?  I think not.  You join
>the ranks of loserz who show us why antiorp was booted: again I'll say it=
>:

stephen kay posts another off topic message.

>posting reams of material not related to the Max list.

"I began to add a few things up and realized there was no way I could come
from a little town in Iowa, be eating 2,000 people a year, and nobody said
anything about it"

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 12 Oct 1998 05:47:10 -0800
From:    Gene Schwartz 
Subject: Re: politics, logical types and servers

Chris Murtagh writes:
>
>Hi Stephen,
>
>Just for your interest.  I've had it with these twits, and I really don't
>give a shit what they say about free speech. Before I go, I'm going to boot
>everyone of these assholes who reposts anti-krapmatter. Getting my name put
>up on www pages with insults and swastiks has really done it.

Democracy rears its ugly head again.

"I began to add a few things up and realized there was no way I could come
from a little town in Iowa, be eating 2,000 people a year, and nobody said
anything about it"

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 12 Oct 1998 15:19:41 +0200
From:    Robert Henke 
Subject: groove~

a granular related problem:

according to the manual and to the help file, the groove~ object accepts
floats and signals for the looppoints. with floats everything works fine,
but everytime when i tried it with signals i have no output signal =
anymore.
 istn`t it implemented yet or is there a basic misunderstanding ?

rob.

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 12 Oct 1998 14:22:23 +0100
From:    Andrew Deakin 
Subject: Granular Synthesis

Jim Wood asked
>3. Granular Synthesis, the group does anyone know
>what exactly they do and where to see it? They are
>appearing in the good Old North East of Engerland,
>but its not much good for us southern softies.
>P.S. why call your group after a type of DSP, its a
>bit silly isn't. What next Multiple Wavetable
>Synthesis. Still its better than Nine Inch Nails I
>suppose.

Jim,

I saw GS in Liverpool recently. They work with realtime granulation of
sound and video using multiple video projections and a very big PA. (In
Liverpool they had a 50K PA in a room the size of an average dining
hall). The effect is very physical and disorientating - I can see why
David Z fainted and had a panic attack - seems a perfectly reasonable
response under the circumstances.

I don't know if they are planning any performances in/near London but if
you want to know more there is an excellent book/CD available (produced
for the piece NoiseGateM6 - shown in Hull earlier this year). I saw it
recently in the bookshop at The Whitechapel Gallery and the ICA - cost 13
UKP. (pub: MAK,Vienna. ISBN 3-89322-417-3.

Cheers,

Andrew

PS If you go to see GS - take (and use!) earplugs. I took some but did
not use them and regreted it for the next 3 days!!

Andrew Deakin
Sonic Arts Programme Leader
Centre for Electronic Arts
Middlesex University
Cat Hill
Barnet
EN4 8HT
UNITED KINGDOM

tel: + 181 362 5109
email:a.deakin@mdx.ac.uk
Sonic Arts Website : http://www.mdx.ac.uk/www/sonic/index.html

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 12 Oct 1998 10:11:23 -0500
From:    Christopher Murtagh 
Subject: Re: politics, logical types and servers

>Chris Murtagh writes:
>>Just for your interest.  I've had it with these twits, and I really don't
>>give a shit what they say about free speech. Before I go, I'm going to
boot
>>everyone of these assholes who reposts anti-krapmatter. Getting my name
put
>>up on www pages with insults and swastiks has really done it.
>
>Democracy rears its ugly head again.

 Yes, I realized this was a big mistake on my part (haven't you noticed
that you aren't booted?). It was a knee jerk reaction to some more hate
mail (which I really love). Sorry. I will be gone soon.

Chris

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 12 Oct 1998 14:15:28 -0000
From:    Nick Rothwell 
Subject: Re: politics, logical types and servers

> Democracy rears its ugly head again.

I'm unsubscribing.

I hope that the small proportion of the tens of thousands of readers
of THE MIX magazine who are introduced to this list by this month's
MAX article are more tolerant than I am. I personally have too much of
a life to deal with this bickering.

        Nick. (Founder of MAX mailing list, 1992.)

--
        Nick Rothwell, CASSIEL              contemporary dance projects
        http://www.cassiel.com              music synthesis and control

  You've read the rant, now buy the album:
http://www.cassiel.com/listenmove/

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 12 Oct 1998 11:46:15 -0400
From:    David Crandall 
Subject: critical thinking (before everybody leaves)

Leaving personalities out of it, I believe the only point worth making in
all this mess is that it's important that artists think critically about
what they're doing, and share these thoughts with each other. I've been
told off by antiorp before, but it turned out to be pretty valuable input
in the end, and it did make me think about what I was doing with the
tools.

Thinking and criticizing is what separates great art from great technical
achievement, and is the only tool I've found to sort out what power and
money (and complacency)  may be doing to an art form.  And worth putting
up with a certain amount of b.s. to gain some insight.  There was a
related thread on another list last year (emusic-l?) where Mike Metlay was
talking about "brick-making" and I thought it revealing and helpful, but I
also thought it fizzled pretty quickly.

And I believe my point still stands that nobody's stopped programming or
extending the tools since this controversy started.

Anyway it looks like the masses (or what passes for them) have spoken, and
the list is for technical questions only.  But I've asked before and I'll
ask again: if anyone knows where this other discussion can/does take
place, please say.  Because to me it's as important as the "brick-making"
issues (if not more so). Otherwise, the scene tends toward some two-layer
system of brick-makers vs architects, and guess who has the real power
then?

dc

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 12 Oct 1998 13:06:21 +0000
From:    Amy Knoles 
Subject: Re: kat controllers

Date:    Fri, 9 Oct 1998 22:07:36 +0000
From:    Mark 
Subject: Trap Kat

Has anyone developed a notational system for the TrapKat?
I am working on an interactive composition using a TrapKat, a dk10 and
Max/Msp and would like some input on possible way to notate for the
above
controllers

Mark,
Send me your fax # and I'll fax you a system that I have been using for the
past
few years for the DrumKat which is the same layout as the dk10 I believe.
It's
based on a standard drumset notation and then extended...

Amy Knoles
Executive Director- The California E.A.R. Unit
PO Box 86374 Los Angeles, Ca. 90086-0374
EMail:  amy@earunit.org       or above address
Visit our web site at: www.earunit.org

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 12 Oct 1998 14:29:00 -0700
From:    David Zicarelli 
Subject: minor MSP update

An exceedingly minor update to MSP is now available at
on the Cycling '74 MSP download page at
http://www.cycling74.com/products/dlmsp.html. The update
includes updates to groove~ and vst~, revised Digidesign
and Sonorus audio drivers, and a new multi-channel granular
example.

The Digidesign driver update is intended for people with
the new Project II card or the d24 card. The minimum I/O vector
size has been reduced to 256 samples, which provides excellent
latency performance. The efficiency of the driver has also
improved (for these cards only, not the AM III) quite a bit.

There will soon be an even newer driver and Digi system init
that supports the hardware Digidesign announced at AES (the
Protools Mix cards) and will finally fix the "toss out" bug.

So anyway, if you can find the time to take a break from writing
messages to the Max mailing list saying that you are unsubscribing
out of disgust with messages that have nothing to do with
Max, you might want to check this update out. There's an updater
for people with revision 5 that we released last August, and
also one for earlier versions.

David Z.

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 12 Oct 1998 16:32:04 -0400
From:    ryohros 
Subject: Stop

I'm getting sick of all this fighting. All over cnn and all over this
list.
can't you just stop the talking and do the walking?
Thanks

Raymond

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 12 Oct 1998 14:35:35 -0700
From:    Matt Wright 
Subject: Night School (was Re: granular timestretch; & Max I/O)

david stevens  wonders

>a number of people have mentioned the MSP Nightschool. Are the files from
this
>accesible to everyone? where are they?  I've checked out most of the Max
sites
>that I can find, except for one of the universities in the US, which won't
allow
>anonymous log-in.

CNMAT hosted a week-long night school on Max/MSP taught by the esteemed
David
Zicarelli, David Wessel, Leslie Stuck, Richard Dudas, and me.  We made our
example patches available for download, mostly as a service to our students.

Examples include additive synthesis, FM, sample playback synthesis, granular
synthesis, looping, Karplus/Strong waveguides, event/signal conversions,
real-time sampling, frequency domain fun, convolution, and all kinds of Max
tricks for complexity control, dealing with lists, etc.

Keep in mind that these are not tutortials.  They're basically undocumented
and terse; a lot of them were built on the fly during class.  You'll
understand them a lot better if you were in the class!

You can get them from the CNMAT WWW site:

http://cnmat.CNMAT.Berkeley.EDU/MAX/NightSchool/

-Matt

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 12 Oct 1998 19:27:49 -0400
From:    Gary Lee Nelson 
Subject: I can't believe it.

A whole digest devoted to communication about someone who feels that his
own self-created mode of discourse - not to mentiion the volume.  If the
guy has good ideas - and a healthy mind - why can't he simply challenge in
plain language?  Me irish gut tells me that locking the guy out won't work
but can't we encourage him to grow up?  I had my head busted in Chicago in
1968 but my political clout didn't start until I owned a tweed jacket and
a lectern at a university.  Don Quixote was wrong!

Gary Lee Nelson
TIMARA Department
Conservatory of Music
Oberlin, OH 44074
office: 440-775-8223
home: 440-775-4279
fax: 440-775-8942
email: Gary.Nelson@oberlin.edu
http://www.timara.oberlin.edu/people/~gnelson/gnelson.htm

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End of MAX Digest - 11 Oct 1998 to 12 Oct 1998 - Special issue (#1998-32)
*************************************************************************