Subject: MAX Digest - 10 Oct 1998 to 11 Oct 1998 (#1998-31)
Date: Mon, 12 Oct 1998 00:00:02 -0400
From: Automatic digest processor 
Reply-To: MAX - Interactive Music/Multimedia Standard Environments
To: Recipients of MAX digests 

There are 15 messages totalling 467 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. lets move on
  2. Antiorp, since you brought it up
  3. Politics, logical types and servers (2)
  4. antiorp speaks
  5. granular
  6. invisible mouse
  8. granular timestretch; & Max I/O
  9. granular...
 10. Taille critique ?
 11. Blah
 12. MAX Digest - 9 Oct 1998 to 10 Oct 1998 - Special issue (#1998-29)
 13. right TrapKat
 14. Goodbye

Email to MAX should now be sent to
LISTSERV commands should be sent to
Information is available on the WEB at


Date:    Sun, 11 Oct 1998 16:56:10 +1000
From:    Garth Paine 
Subject: lets move on

I am sick and tired of all this crap about antiorp.

Lets just get on with MAX.

I shall unsubscribe from the list for a few weeks until this all sttles
down if this goes on much more.



See information about my new immersive interactive sound installation at

<<  ><  >>
.. Composer, Sound Designer
... Interactives Designer
.... Interactive Installation Artist
..... Exhibition Consultant
<<  ><  >>


Date:    Sun, 11 Oct 1998 03:28:51 -0400
From:    Stephen Kay 
Subject: Antiorp, since you brought it up

 Carlton Joseph Wilkinson:
>1. He has earned my respect and continues to earn my respect by not
>caving into shallow, routine standards like those you are trying to
>apply here and by continuing to be exactly who is.

>>"reszpekt =3D bas!s ov ras!zm. fasc!zm. kap!tal!zm"--=3Dcw4t7abs

antiorp has already said he has no respect for you, or anyone.

>Antiorp's ideas are only ideas, they're not bombs, they're not
>furniture he's asking you to store. They're ideas that you can ignore if=

>you want or ponder if you want or argue with or about if you want. They
>are ideas that stem directly from the conversations on this list and
>therefore are relevant to this list

antiorp's ideas have nothing to do with the reason this list exists.
They are simply blanket knee-jerk reactions to anything which doesn't
fit into s/he/it's concept that everyone is a kap!tal!st or worse.

95% of antiorp's blather could be better served by being posted
on some list that discusses philosophy, or art in and of itself.
If I want to read huge excerpts from textbooks referring to =

"Descartes" and "hegemony", and view huge limitless expanses of
ASCII art, I know of places where I can go for that.  NOT here, =


For the record, this is definitely *not* the first list antiorp
has been booted from. I wonder why...

> You imply that you've given him every opportunity to participate. But
> you haven't.

Yes, he did.  Totally.  =

> It seems right, what you've done, but it's not right.

Whatever it is, it's wonderful.  Imagine, the MAX List archive
without reams of useless, philosophical musings and ASCII art.
Imagine, another Max list member announces the availability of
some work that s/he has done, and is not greeted with "perm!t
zom1 to vom!t", which is never accompanied by any actual concrete
reasons for the proposed vom!tt!ng.  I personally hope that
antiorp project!le vom!ts all over s/he/itself.

What happened to the copy of MAX that antiorp publicly offered to
buy for that person in Sweden?  You all witnessed it.  Where is
it?  I stand ready to fulfill my part - the shipping costs. Just
another example of krapmattr w!thout truth.  Or dare I say it?
antiorp =3D=3D hypokr!t


Date:    Sun, 11 Oct 1998 03:29:28 -0400
From:    Stephen Kay 
Subject: Re: Politics, logical types and servers

>Matthew and the list,

>I'm glad to see you're thinking about this issue in terms of the social
>structure of the Max-l community.

Too bad you didn't reply to Matthew directly.  As for "the list",
don't lump me in with your cronies.  The only thing I'm thinking
about is Max, C, C++, and music software.

>The best democracies are also social
>groups, cliques of a sort. All societies are. Humans develop trends of
>interaction between individuals that turn into broadly differentiating
>characteristics (the characteristics that separate the Maya from the
>Egyptian and the Ancient Greek and ourselves, etc.)

I just love it when these pseudo-intellectuals get all impressed
with themselves.

Here is a person (Carlton Joseph Wilkinson) whom I think you could
search the Max archive for, and never find in connection with Max
or MSP.  Yet here he is, continuing a pontification on society and
the internet et al.  Why don't you go over to the sorts of groups
where people are interested in that, instead of trying to create
those kinds of threads here?  IT'S NOT THE PURPOSE OF THIS LIST.
Which is why antiorp was booted - long reams of material unrelated
to the list.  There was no personal vendetta against antiorp.

>because we have at our disposal the quintessential
>anarchist in the presence of antiorp,

antiorp =3D=3D quintessential poseur

Please give it a rest, and pretend to be interested in what this
list is supposed to be for.  It's no wonder that most of the
"heavies", the people who really know Max and C no longer pay
much attention to this list.  It's a sad situation.


Date:    Sun, 11 Oct 1998 03:29:25 -0400
From:    Stephen Kay 
Subject: antiorp speaks

Gene Schwartz:
>antiorp asked me to forward this, and I can't think of a (good) reason n=

>>_ !gnorance or impotence _

The good reason not to would have been common sense.  Although I'm glad
to see antiorp's got religion.

Did we need to read an(other) antiorp manifesto?  I think not.  You join
the ranks of loserz who show us why antiorp was booted: again I'll say it=
posting reams of material not related to the Max list.


Date:    Sun, 11 Oct 1998 14:11:46 +0200
From:    Robert Henke 
Subject: granular

hi david,
thanks for your hint with the sync outlet of the groove~ object. yourr
patcher looks good , i will check it out later.

hi dan trueman,
i am looking forward to see / hear! your finished object !!!!!!!!!!

hi chris murtagh,
thank you for running the listserv. continue!



Date:    Sun, 11 Oct 1998 09:07:51 EDT
Subject: invisible mouse

In a message dated 10/10/98 11:07:23 PM, you wrote:


Look for Ghost Mouse software on the internet.  It works great!  No way of
doing it that I know of within MAX.

Jeff Krieger


Date:    Sun, 11 Oct 1998 14:10:08 +0000
From:    Andy Gracie 

i am now officially bored to tears of this socio-political debate. i dont
have the time or incliniation to plough through all this crap every day
trying to find the useful postings about MAX (god forbid).
i have no problem with freedom of speech. i endeavour to support and
practise it whenever possible. i enjoy healthy debate. social implications
of the internet are fascinating and worthy of lenghty discussion.

but for FUCKS sake can't you all do your bitching somewhere else. it is SO
tedious. i am annoyed that ive got myself dragged into it now, but enough is
enough. there is so much room for these discussions elsewhere - use it.



Date:    Sun, 11 Oct 1998 17:13:32 +0000
From:    david stevens 
Subject: granular timestretch; & Max I/O

hi all,

thanks to everyone who replied here or directly to me on my query about
controlling motors from Max. It seems to me that the I-Cube may be the best
as I get input as well as output, and the system seems to provide quite a
of possibilities. Anyone think otherwise (before i spend the money!)?

a number of people have mentioned the MSP Nightschool. Are the files from
accesible to everyone? where are they?  I've checked out most of the Max
that I can find, except for one of the universities in the US, which won't
anonymous log-in.

as for granular timestretch - thanks to Matthew for the rgrain~ object - i
i have a basic idea of what's happening, but I'm wondering if perhaps there
any documentation or a help file for it somewhere?
tomorrow I'm going to try the groove~ patcher that David Z posted in a
digest - does this need the new (?) version of groove~ that someone
recently, or is the standard one fine?
I more or less have the granulation concept sorted out now, but i'm still
to figure out how to do the timestretching thing in MSP. I'm also starting
wonder if it's going to be so processor intensive to do this, that I won't
enough power left to do the filtering, which is actually the most important
thing that I want to do.(And Kyma is still abit too expensive for me!).  Any
comments would be most welcome!




Date:    Mon, 12 Oct 1998 02:09:00 +0900
From:    nobuyasu sakonda 
Subject: Re: granular...

I sent my msp granular patch to Mr.Rechard Dudas some month ago. Rechard
he would post it IRCAM ftp server when next updating.  It seems to me IRCAM
ftp has not been updated yet since April.

My granular patch has very simple structure to solve the problems of jitter
noise and smoothing by using only a few basic msp objects. The way of
it is the synchronization of small loop to be played and window wave loop
timing of giving new loop point,etc., by sah~.

Rechard, please post!

SAKONDA Nobuyasu (composer)

5-4-8-603, Oishi-higashimachi, Nada, Kobe, 657-0043 Japan
phone & fax:  +81-(0)78-882-2263
email: /


Date:    Sun, 11 Oct 1998 19:45:08 +0200
From:    Roland Cahen & Ruth Sefton-Green 
Subject: Taille critique ?

La liste max a t'elle atteint sa taille critique,
comme l'économie mondiale, comme un patch Max
ou est t'elle l'objet du jeu des spéculateurs ?
Râlant Cahen


Date:    Sun, 11 Oct 1998 13:55:51 -0500
From:    Christopher Murtagh 
Subject: Re: Politics, logical types and servers

Hi Stephen,

Just for your interest.  I've had it with these twits, and I really don't
give a shit what they say about free speech. Before I go, I'm going to boot
everyone of these assholes who reposts anti-krapmatter. Getting my name put
up on www pages with insults and swastiks has really done it.



From: "L-Soft list server at McGill University Computing Centre (1.8d)"

> quiet del max implode@WELL.COM
implode@WELL.COM has been removed from the MAX list. No notification has
been sent.


Date:    Sun, 11 Oct 1998 11:02:58 -0700
From:    peter elsea 
Subject: Blah

>Whatever you thought of Anitorp, the digests are going to [be] shorter and

But apparently not right away.

I'm much sorrier to see Chris go than Antiorp. He has been doing a fine
job, and did not deserve what happened. Every list I have been associated
with has had some sort of disruptive user, and Chris was far more patient
than most.

R B Meng is correct. I vow to cease responding to polemic, and I urge all
of you to do the same.

Peter Elsea
Director of Electronic Music Studios
University of California, Santa Cruz


Date:    Sun, 11 Oct 1998 16:32:48 -0700
From:    Jim Wood 
Subject: Re: MAX Digest - 9 Oct 1998 to 10 Oct 1998 - Special issue

> I would like to have a patcher which is comparable
with the demo granular
> patcher of  "Super Collider" .
> I can`t do it.
> 2 possibilites :
> 1. I am to stupid
> 2. msp can`t do it
> i am not so shure wchich answer i dislike more...
> thanks
> rob.

1. Ive seen a patch called Gransynth by Richard Dudas,
available in the MSP NightSchoolFolder, a tutorial
available on-line Im not sure the URL I guess other
MAXers on the list would know. This is similar to the
SuperCollider example, and Ive also played around
with it to do live audio input.

2. Video granular synthesis whats this all about and
what does it look like? any web pages where I could
se examples of this?

3. Granular Synthesis, the group does anyone know
what exactly they do and where to see it? They are
appearing in the good Old North East of Engerland,
but its not much good for us southern softies.
P.S. why call your group after a type of DSP, its a
bit silly isn't. What next Multiple Wavetable
Synthesis. Still its better than Nine Inch Nails I

>From Good Old Eastend er London

Get your free address at


Date:    Mon, 12 Oct 1998 04:32:54 +0200
From:    filip 
Subject: Re: right TrapKat

> >Has anyone developed a notational system for the TrapKat?
> >I am working on an interactive composition using a TrapKat, a dk10 and
> >Max/Msp and would like some input on possible way to notate for the
> >above
> >controllers and two other conventional (Clarinet and Cello) instruments.
> >
> The newer v. of the DrumKat (3.5 & 4.0 have a notation mode where the
> pads output another note (out of the right midi out I think) in addition
> to the notes that it sends out anyway.
> This is for the purposes of notating Kat parts using a notation program -
> it's somethimg like:
> Trig 1 = D above middle C
> pad 1 = middle C
> etc. etc...
> This may be helpful as a basis in creating your own.

i cannaot answer the request

but what trapped my interest is  "(out of the right midi out I think) "
what might this mean?
is there left and right midi?



Date:    Sun, 11 Oct 1998 23:47:23 -0400
From:    Eric Singer 
Subject: Goodbye

Thanks to all of you who have ruined the Max list for the last few weeks
with this ridiculous Antiorp know who you are.  I am
unsubscribing for the rest of the month.  I hope that when I return, the
list is back to being used for the purpose for which it is intended.
Otherwise I am gone for good.

To those who persist, realize that you are contributing to the destruction
of a useful and important forum that used to be devoted to the discussion
of Max.

Eric Singer


End of MAX Digest - 10 Oct 1998 to 11 Oct 1998 (#1998-31)