Subject: MAX Digest - 5 Oct 1998 to 6 Oct 1998 (#1998-23)
Date: Wed, 7 Oct 1998 00:00:00 -0400
From: Automatic digest processor 
Reply-To: MAX - Interactive Music/Multimedia Standard Environments
     
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There are 14 messages totalling 586 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1.  (4)
  2. MAX objects for editing note names? (3)
  3. iCube cable hack (4)
  4. Icube cable, OMS externals, object list
  5. Last posting re: Antiorp (2)

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Date:    Mon, 5 Oct 1998 23:22:49 -0500
From:    =cw4t7abs 
Subject: 

>some text on the album and how MAX was used in its
>realisation.

| perm!t zom1 2 vom!t

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 5 Oct 1998 22:33:06 -0700
From:    Adam Schabtach 
Subject: Re: MAX objects for editing note names?

>>I am wondering if anyone on the list has written any objects to edit note
>>names stored in the OMS Name manager?
>
>>If not, does anyone know where I would find the information necessary to
>>write an external to do it?
>
>The Software Developer's Kit included with 3.5.  But you need to know C.

Perhaps the poser of the question meant where would he find the necessary
information regarding the OMS Name Manager. If so, it can be found in the
OMS developer documents, which can be had from Opcode's web site.

--Adam
Adam Schabtach                          nebulous@earthlink.net

"People can hear the silence. That's the point."
               --Yoshihiro Kawasaki

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 5 Oct 1998 23:32:54 -0700
From:    Edward Spiegel 
Subject: MAX objects for editing note names?

Stephen,

Thanks for the reply. I guess my question wasn't clear. I'm wondering
where one gets the info needed to edit names stored by the OMS Name
Manager. The SDK on the Max disk has header and includes files but no
documentation of what the meaning of the OMS calls are.

Do you know of a place from where the OMS calls are documented?

Thanks again,

Edward

>Date:    Mon, 5 Oct 1998 16:10:47 -0400
>From:    Stephen Kay 
>Subject: MAX objects for editing note names?
>
>>I am wondering if anyone on the list has written any objects to edit not=
>e
>>names stored in the OMS Name manager?
>
>>If not, does anyone know where I would find the information necessary to=
>
>>write an external to do it?
>
>The Software Developer's Kit included with 3.5.  But you need to know C.
>
>Stephen Kay

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 6 Oct 1998 10:02:19 +0100
From:    Martin Robinson 
Subject: Re: iCube cable hack

I recently used the iCube in a pretty EM noisy environment (a night club).
Cables had to be run quite near high power mains circuits. Some runs were
about 50ft and I had no problems (in addition, MIDI was being transmitted
over 200ft, very naughty, I know).

I used standard installation foil screened twin cable for some runs,
overall screened multi-way cable for some and foil screend twin multicore
for others. None gave me any problems.

For the connection to the iCube itself used 0.1" pin-strip (like the jumper
pins on hard drives) and snipped it into threes.

Hope this helps,

Martin Robinson
Sonic Arts
Middlesex University

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 6 Oct 1998 12:12:41 +0000
From:    Andy Gracie 
Subject: Re: iCube cable hack

matt wrote

>Has anybody extended the iCube sensor cables to 50' or so?  If you have,
>what type of cable did you use?  XLR was suggested, but is expensive.
>Any other suggestions out there?

there are extensions (1 or 5m) available from infusion systems. the problem=
 in making your own, if you are in the UK, is that the three pin fittings=
 are unavailable in this country.i recently made an installation where i=
 needed 15m of sensor cable on each of 5 sensors. after cutting apart my=
 sensor cables and hardwiring miles of extra cable into them i noticed a=
 slight latency in signal transmission. eventually i found the best
solution=
 was to keep the standard 1m cable lengths, have the iCube mounted into the=
 piece and use long runs of MIDI cable with boosters every 5m. not cheap or=
 pretty but it worked. MIDI experts will probably be horrified at the
length=
 of cable!!

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 6 Oct 1998 10:13:45 -0500
From:    =cw4t7abs 
Subject: 

> > in shanghai, french prime minister lionel jospin has told chinese
> > students of the french language: "we need a world language, and
> > since it won't be esperanto, it will probably be english. let's
> > take comfort. being used by all, english will get a rough ride
> > and lose its original beauty, while chinese and french will
> > retain their purity."
>
> great quote ... he actually put "french" and "retain purity"
> together in the same phrase?!

i have mixed feelings about this quote. on the one hand, it's the kind
of dumb thing that gets quoted endlessly and makes it very difficult
for linguists to get taken seriously.
one the other hand, it's sort of right. this is definitely one of the
reasons i'm against english being used as a world language. anything
used as an ial is in for a rough ride.

perm!t zom1 2 !vom!t

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 6 Oct 1998 11:24:11 -0400
From:    Chris Murtagh Hrdc-drhc 
Subject: Re: iCube cable hack

One thing I forgot to mention with my 100 ft coax cables for the iCube
(this might be obvious to some)...

 What I did so that I could use the coax cables (which only have 2
conductors) was I built an interface box first. This contained all the
necessary power/ground/signal electronics. The coax cable was simply an
extension of the resistor/voltage sample point. This saves some $$ as you
no longer need 3 conductor cable.

Chris
---------------------------------
Life would be so much easier if we could just look at the source code.

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 6 Oct 1998 11:00:27 -0500
From:    =cw4t7abs 
Subject: 

>from "Chris Murtagh Hrdc-drhc" 
>Dear Antiorp,

hallo

> While your opinions and commentaries are usually interesting, and
>delivered in a unique fashion, the messages as of late have been far from
>that.  Usually I find your postings humourous, but this last batch like:

=3Dcw4t7abs !=3D !nveztment opportun!t+e.

>>| perm!t zom1 2 vom!t
>
>have just been insulting to some of the other list members (regardless of
>the quality of their work).

`dze insulted` d!d not undrztand. `| perm!t zom1 2 vom!t`
regardless of the quality of their work [ultra log!kl rezultat]

| perm!t zom1 2 vom!t =3D atom!k ztatement |

  art!kl zpokn ov beg!nz w!th `perm!t zom1 2 vom!t`

I  found your article Mister or Miss antiorp excellent. As I just
presented a paper at the conference in Ljubljana, and develop a
whole section about errors and data I want more from you. The
conference was September 5. My name is ....

 I would like to know, sorry for my stupidity and not understanding
the relations in the text, that I found great, and I got it September
18, ......., which I inhabite regularly as a  member and
rarely as a contributor.
  1. can I quote some parts in the final edition of my paper to be
printed in a fully academic context, journal of Philosophy
international number, winter 1999....



=3D ut!l!z!ng ur weaponz | rezon!ng

>I know it is hard to discuss the topics of the
>max lists without being subjective,

korrekt!on : !t =3D z!mpl

>but comments like this are not
>constructive and benefit no one.

=3Dcw4t7abs !=3D !nvestment opportun!t+e.

>Please refrain from posting these sort of
>messages and save your energy for intelligent discourse that we all know
>you are capable of.

sav!ng =3Dcw4t7abs 4rom =3Dcw4t7abs +?
+ who shall judge dze policez +?
+ who shall judge dze judgez  +?

>I don't want this to become a censored list, nor do I
>want to receive the complaints I have been getting lately.

d!vers!t+e ov op!n!onz about 1 verk ov `art` shouz dzat
dze verk =3D neu + komplcz + v!tal

when kr!t!kx d!ss.agr! 1 =3D !n akkord w!th 1.nself

pre fasz

-dze art!zt =3D dze kreator ov beaut!fl mattr
-2 reveal art + konseal dze art!zt =3D art.z a!m
 [=3Dcw4t7abs =3D ultra kon.seald + kon.geald]
-dze kr!t!k =3D !t who kan tranzlate !n2 anodzr manr
 or 1 neu mater!al !tz !mpress!on ov beaut!fl mattr
-dze h!ezt az dze louzt form ov kr!t!s!zm =3D 1 mode ov auto b!ograf!
-dzose who =3D lokate ugl+e mean!ng !n beaut!fl th!ngz
 =3D korrupt sensorz w!thout be!ng charm!ng. d!sz 1 fault
-dzose who =3D lokate beaut!fl mean!ngz !n beaut!fl th!ngz =3D dze kult!vatd
 dze! =3D dze elekt 2 whom beaut!fl mattr meanz onl+e beaut+e
-dze 19th sentur+e d!s.l!ke ov real!zm =3D dze rage ov kal!ban see!ng
 !tz oun faasz !n 1 glasz objekt
-dze 19th sentur+e d!s.l!ke ov romant!s!zm =3D dze rage ov kal!ban not
see!n=
g
 !tz oun faasz !n1 glasz objekt
-dze morl l!fe of humanz formz part ov dze zubjekt mattr ov dze art!zt
 abr - dze moral!t+e ov art kons!stz !n dze perfa uzage ov 1 !mperfekt
med!u=
m.
-no art!zt =3D dez!rez 2 prov an!dz!ng. evn th!ngz dzat =3D tru kan b provd
-no art!zt haz eth!kl s!mpath!ez.1 eth!kl s!mpath! !n 1 art!zt =3D 1
unpardo=
nabl
 maner!zm ov zt!le
-thought + lang.uaj =3D dze art!ztz !nztrumentz ov 1 art.
-v!se + v!rtue =3D dze art!ztz mater!alz 4 1 art.
-4rom dze po!nt ov v!ew ov 4m - dze t!pe
 ov all dze artz =3D dze art ov dze muz!s!an.
-4rom dze po!nt ov v!ew ov feel!ng =3D dze aktorz art dze t!pe

all art =3D z!multaneousl+e zurfasz + s!mbol
dzose who =3D !ns!zt on travell!ng beneath dze surfasz =3D do tzo at dze!r=
 oun per!l
!t =3D dze zpektator + not l!fe dzat art trul+e m!rrorz
d!vers!t+e ov op!n!onz about 1 verk ov art shouz dzat
dze verk =3D neu + komplcz + v!tal [tzt.sensorz]

when kr!t!kx d!ss.agr! dze art!zt =3D !n akkord w!th !tz self

we kan 4g!v 1 human 4 kreat!ng 1 uzefl th!ng tzo long az !t doez not adm!re
=
!t.
dze onl+e eczuse 4 kreat!ng 1 uze les th!ng =3D dzat 1 adm!rez adm!rez
!nten=
sel+e

plag!ar!zm zavz t!me + shouz !n!t!at!v.

thought =3D !n essensz unf!t + !n.eff!c!ent

>Please, have
>some respect for the others

reszpekt =3D bas!s ov ras!zm. fasc!zm. kap!tal!zm
=3Dcw4t7abs error : rezpekt : no such objekt

-

kompla!n - slav!sh method
         - \+\  1 akzeptabl koursz 4 model s!tenzenz evr!where

=3D g!vn d!sz g!ft dont u kno.
dze ab!l!t+e 2 underztand.
yet no 1 wantz 2 underztand

humanzsukc++ |   dzere =3D no end 2 dze m!zunderztand!ngz

\\ reazon 4 humanzsukc =3D_? a-l!fe pozerz phpz +?

>and tone down a bit. Thank you.

d.akkord.

odql!s ynl0 1 unl!s

-
juzt az dze 1zt akt !ntrodusez dze kazt + pozez dze problmz
tzo dze 2nd akt tendz 2 shou dze zurpr!z!ng konsekuensez
ov m9ndfukc++

hel!kl z!ppr
4 lettr
20 lettr
tr!plt
ac!d alfa bet

dze kont!nentz =3D adr!ft !n dze oceanz. bzzp

  |=7F|
 |abs|  - krvava gruda-plodna zemlja
  |=7F|
punKtproTokol[4'7c     m9ndfukc.macht.fre! <
hTTp://209.150.144.226/=3Dcw4t7=
abs

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 6 Oct 1998 12:09:38 -0400
From:    Stephen Kay 
Subject: MAX objects for editing note names?

>Thanks for the reply. I guess my question wasn't clear. I'm wondering
>where one gets the info needed to edit names stored by the OMS Name
>Manager. The SDK on the Max disk has header and includes files but no
>documentation of what the meaning of the OMS calls are.

>Do you know of a place from where the OMS calls are documented?
>Edward

I believe you can get all of that information directly from Opcode.
Since OMS is trying to become a standard, they have SDK available
for developers, although I don't have the exact address.  I'd
check their website.

Stephen Kay

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 6 Oct 1998 11:25:25 -0500
From:    =cw4t7abs 
Subject: 

Descartes :
"We must principally be aware of wasting our time in such cases by
proceeding at random and unmethodically; for even though the solution
can often be found without method, and by lucky people sometimes quicker,
yet such procedure is likely to enfeeble the faculties and
to make people accustomed to the trifling and the childish".

Sequentialism was the first of two potentially distorting cartesian steps
in aligning thought with the strengths and weaknesses of the human mind.
Descartes always recognized that he had to abbreviate. Data could be set
off to the side because "art has most opportunely invented the device of
writing". A scientific formulation however needed to be stored in living
memory. Doing so required compression as well as sequentialization.

Historian Emily Grosholz summarizes Descartes views:

Whereas deduction involves running through ideas successively in time
and retaining some of them in memory - intuition grasps a nexus of ideas
all at once. However if the mind runs through a chain of reasoning
quickly and easily enough deduction can be converted to intuition.

________________________________________
error is the mark of the higher organism
________________________________________

The relatively invariant unit is the social institution.

Institutions are the commonly held patterns of behavior and habits of
thought of a routinised and durable nature that are associated with humans
interacting in a group or larger collectives. Institutions enable ordered
thought and action by imposing form and consistency on the activities of
human beings.

| odql!s ynl0 1 unl!s

http://209.150.144.226/=cw4t7abs/0f0003/ztpd/=cw4t7abs.3nkod0r..0+2.html

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 6 Oct 1998 09:54:54 -0700
From:    Peter Elsea 
Subject: Icube cable, OMS externals, object list

>Has anybody extended the iCube sensor cables to 50' or so?  If you have,
>what type of cable did you use?

I've gone out to 25' using data cable with multiple twisted pairs and an
overall shield. I cut the connectors off an old RS 232 cable that was nice
and limp.  It's a bit noisy for 12 bit resolution, but works fine with
eight bit. (The performer wanted "power rings" with a knob and button on
each hand. I made them out of miniature pots and cable clamps- iCube is
perfect for this sort of thing.)

>>I am wondering if anyone on the list has written any objects to edit note
>>names stored in the OMS Name manager?
>>If not, does anyone know where I would find the information necessary to
>>write an external to do it?
>
>The Software Developer's Kit included with 3.5.

You'll also need the OMS software developers kit, available fom time to
time on the OpCode site.

>I've noticed that there are a lot of externals that come with MAX on the
>CD but which don't appear in the new object list.
>
>They all seem to be found all right (I use them in patchers all the
>time), but I'm wondering if there is a way to get them to show up in the
>window you get when you create new objects?

Third party externals turn up in the new object list if the author has
remembered to put an incantation in the object's code- but it won't show
until it has been loaded once the hard way. Any messages posted as the
object loads ( like copyright notices) are the same.
You can put anything you like in the new object list by editing the Max
Object List that should be found in the top level of your Max folder. Each
object gets a line:
category  name
The list of objects you used to see at boot up was only those in the
startup folder- they are loaded right away. They're the same each time, so
why list them?

Peter Elsea
Electronic Music Studios
University of California, Santa Cruz
http://arts.ucsc.edu/EMS/Music/index.html
 elsea@cats.ucsc.edu

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 6 Oct 1998 13:25:28 -0400
From:    Chris Murtagh Hrdc-drhc 
Subject: Last posting re: Antiorp

From: "=cw4t7abs" , on 10/6/98 12:00 PM:
>reszpekt = bas!s ov ras!zm. fasc!zm. kap!tal!zm

 I think you need to rethink your ideology which frankly, I am not
interested in discussing with you. Put simply, most people who have
communicated with me could care less about your ideas on art. They are
subscribed to this list for information about MAX and MSP and are mostly
interested in discussions regarding the use of this software. There are
many forums where you can discuss your philosophy and I'm sure you would
have a lot to offer there. This however is not the place.

>=cw4t7abs error : rezpekt : no such objekt

 If this is the case, and you cannot respect the majority of people's
wishes, I shall have to ask you to leave. I do NOT wish to do this, but I
will if this continues. Please, I ask you for the last time, keep your
postings related to topics that are of interest to the people on this list.
Thank you.

Sincerely,

Christopher Murtagh

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 6 Oct 1998 16:59:56 -0400
From:    Stephen Kay 
Subject: Last posting re: Antiorp

Chris Murtagh:
>>=3Dcw4t7abs error : rezpekt : no such objekt

>If this is the case, and you cannot respect the majority of people's
>wishes, I shall have to ask you to leave. I do NOT wish to do this, but =
I
>will if this continues. =

>Please, I ask you for the last time, keep your
>postings related to topics that are of interest to the people on this
list.

>Please, I ask you for the last time, keep your
>postings related to topics that are of interest to the people on this
list.

>Please, I ask you for the last time, keep your
>postings related to topics that are of interest to the people on this
list.

antiorp:
>Descartes:
[snip long excerpt of some textbook]

NOT OF INTEREST
NOT OF INTEREST
NOT OF INTEREST

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 7 Oct 1998 11:33:53 +1000
From:    David Rodger 
Subject: Re: iCube cable hack

Matt Biederman wrote:
>Has anybody extended the iCube sensor cables to 50' or so?

I've not encountered an I-Cube in real life (the nearest one I know of is
in Brisbane and I'm in Melbourne!) so I just had a look at the Infusion
Systems site.  The sensor cables appear to be twisted pairs.  This suggests
two conductors, or possibly two shielded conductors (3 paths: shields tied
together).  If you have a look at the connectors (to the I-Cube box) you
should be able to see how many are used.  XLRs are quite expensive, but how
about 1/4" jacks?  Mono (2conductors) or stereo TRS (3 conductors).

Regards, David

David Rodger:    Audio Engineering;  Pool Operations;  Aquatics Training
EMAIL:  auricle@alphalink.com.au     WEB:  www.alphalink.com.au/~auricle
RESEARCH  --  Motion Capture in Music  --  farben.latrobe.edu.au/motion/
ADZOHU  -- Music and Dance from Ghana  --  www.alphalink.com.au/~adzohu/
========================================================================
"It is always a thrill to observe music software making its descent from
the rarefied origins of a research tool, reaching its natural level as a
device to aid in the sale of alcoholic beverages."     --David Zicarelli

------------------------------

End of MAX Digest - 5 Oct 1998 to 6 Oct 1998 (#1998-23)
*******************************************************