Subject: MAX Digest - 30 Sep 1998 to 1 Oct 1998 (#1998-18)
Date: Fri, 2 Oct 1998 00:00:00 -0400
From: Automatic digest processor 
Reply-To: MAX - Interactive Music/Multimedia Standard Environments
To: Recipients of MAX digests 

There are 9 messages totalling 333 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1.  (2)
  2. Navigation
  3. video
  4. SAMT Re: video MAX vs X-pose / Max video sampler
  5. MAX Digest - 28 Sep 1998 to 29 Sep 1998 (#1998-16)
  6. PowerGlove, Goldbrick, PGSI ??? (2)
  7. movie object question

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Date:    Wed, 30 Sep 1998 23:18:22 -0500
From:    =cw4t7abs 

>A slightly higher priced "pro" version


>Suggestions for a title anyone?



Date:    Wed, 30 Sep 1998 23:19:55 -0500
From:    =cw4t7abs 

ste!m !mag!ne vs arkaoz xpoze

!f 1 = unevntfl xpoze k!kx


Date:    Thu, 1 Oct 1998 03:37:57 -0400
From:    Stephen Kay 
Subject: Navigation


>no patchcords,no Hacking. Just pressing tab or anything else and moving
>around numberboxes like in excel.Is there anyway to make a program in c
>or whatever that will recognize numberboxes as cells?

I'm afraid you'd have to write a custom object to do this.  Although
that's actually kind of a cool idea for a future feature in Max -
some way to group rows or columns of numboxes into a "unit", which
could then be tabbed through.

Stephen Kay
---------------------- The MegaMAX Collection ----------------------
 Over 30 Max objects for the creation of more professional looking, =

         feeling, and functioning patchers and applications.


Date:    Thu, 1 Oct 1998 11:27:51 +0200
From:    Jeffrey Burns 
Subject: video

Hats off to Johnny DeKam for his intention to write a fast, practical video

Obviously, the question of hard/softare compression is the main issue when
doing computer video. For reference, let me quote from a table that
appeared in the German c't, 1966, vol. 11:

comp.  sampling   MByte/sec   Min/GByte   Quality
1:1       4:2:2         22               0:46            tv studio direct
2:1       4:2:2         11               1:33            tv broadcast
3:1       4:2:2         7.4               2:18           betacam digital
4:1       4:2:2         5.5               3:06           betacam pro
5:1       4:2:2         4.4               3:52           betacam semi-pro
5:1       4:2:0         3.1               5:30           MiniDV
7:1       4:2:2         3.2               5:20           Hi8 or S-VHS
10:1     4:2:2         2.2               7:45.5         Hi8 or S-VHS
15:1     4:2:2         1.5               11:22.7       VHS

We see that everything that we're dealing with when using available PCI
video hardware falls in the lowest three groups - a rather unprofessional
solution from a cameraman's point of view. Assuming that we can live with
this compromise, the real problem is that most of the material that we
stuff through the PCI boards comes from Hi8 cameras. When we transfer the
compressed material from the camera into the m-jpeg compression that the
PCI boards provide, there is a further loss.

Therefore, I suggest that any future-oriented video software should
concentrate on MiniDV. All the video makers I know immediately bought
digital camcorders when they appeared and consider them to be applicable
for all artistic purposes. There is no loss when transfering the signal
(via firewire) to the computer. It is supported by QT 3.0. Although the
quality is better, it takes up less disc space than compressed video from a
good PCI board (Miro DC20: 3.2 MB/sec., Miro DC30: 7 MB/sec. maximum). For
users who are not satisfied with pixelated, blown-up quarter-screen
solutions (among which I count myself), this seems the only way to go.

Jeff Burns


Date:    Thu, 1 Oct 1998 11:52:22 +0200
From:    Andreas Weixler 
Subject: SAMT Re: video MAX vs X-pose / Max video sampler

Johnny DeKam,

thank You very much for Your detailed mail explaining Your video expirences.
It matches with mine. Please keep in touch if there is something new at
arkaos or video-max and especially how Your max video sampler is going on,
of course all other Maxers too.

>I'm pleased to announce plans today for developing a public release video
>sampler written in MAX, designed specifically for Iomega Buz, but which
>should work on any video card which hardware accelerates QuickTime.  (such
>as Targa, Media 100, Miro etc for full screen / high quality 30 fps)

I am looking for this ! Please mail to
How will You program this video sampler written in MAX ? I tried it with
objects video and videoin but it seem to work too slow even on a G3 with a
Miro DC 30.

thank You

Andreas Weixler, composer, lecturer
SAMT Studio for Advanced Music and Media Technology
Bruckner-Conservatory Linz/ Austria


Date:    Thu, 1 Oct 1998 13:55:57 +0200
From:    Georg Hajdu 
Subject: Re: MAX Digest - 28 Sep 1998 to 29 Sep 1998 (#1998-16)

>Date:    Mon, 28 Sep 1998 23:00:32 -0800
>From:    dudas 
>Subject: a Karplus-Strong petcs baja...
>Georg Hajdu writes:
>>I've been playing around with some of the CNMAT night school patches
>>recently and was very intrigued by the Karplus-Strong patch.
>>it wasn't possible to create pitches higher than middle c (due to the fact
>>that tapin~/tapout~ can't handle delays shorter than 1.5 msec). I replaced
>>tapin~/tapout~ by the delay~ object (which is suitable for shorter delays)
>>and noticed that--while delay~ worked fine with simple delays--is wasn't
>>possible to do feedback. I simply had no output.
>Whereas it seems logical to program a feedback loop in the way that you
>showed in your patch, it just doesn't work. If you think about it, you are
>telling the signal compiler to add an object's output to its own input
>before it has even had the chance to calculate the output signal! (so the
>DSP doesn't even run... you've created an infinite loop.) Try doing the
>same kind of connection between an int object and a number box and you
>should get a lovely stack overflow and have to restart the max scheduler.
>A sneaky way to do feedback in your MSP patch would be to add a send~ and a
>receive~ on either side of the delay~. Since the send~/receive~ combination
>makes a copy of the signal buffer, the signal compiler won't run into the
>infinite loop problem.  However your signal will be delayed by the signal
>vector size (it seems you're using 64 samples), and thus you get the same
>pitch restriction as with the tapin~/tapout~. (Back to square one, it
>So, what you need is an obejct that has a sample-by sample delay with
>built-in feedback... i.e. the comb~ object.  (In fact, comb~ without
>feedback does the same thing as delay~.) Les Stuck did a superb example
>called "Kazoo" which can be found in the MSP examples folder.
>Actually, it might be nice to have a karplus object with a built-in biquad~
>filter and 4-point interpolation for the delay. Anyone want to give it a
>Remeelem hogy az segiit, vagy legalaabb vilaagiit egy kicsit mieert nem
>muekoedik a petched. Lehet hogy probaalok iirni egy karplusz obdzsektet
>valamikor az eev veege elloet, ha igazaan haszaalnos lett volna neked.

Szia Richard,

Nem tudtam hogy Magyar vagy. Ott sz=FClettel? En Nemetorszagba sz=FClettem,
sajnos soha se talnultam az igazi Magyar orthografiat. Remelem hogy nem
csinaltom tul sok hibakok.


 Dr. Georg Hajdu

Hochschule f=FCr Musik Detmold,
Abteilung M=FCnster
Ludgeriplatz 1
D-48151 Muenster



Date:    Thu, 1 Oct 1998 16:10:19 +0100
From:    Christoph Hoelscher 
Subject: PowerGlove, Goldbrick, PGSI ???


yes, it is the old PowerGlove question again...

I just got myself a PowerGlove (from eBay) and I was wondering how to use
it with MAX (of which I am a newbie).

Some digging on the WWW suggests that in the early 90ies several interfaces
were available that allowed for connecting a PowerGlove to the MAC (or at
least to a PC). More recent references only name two interfaces: the
GoldBrick and the PGSI.

Does anybody know of other interfaces for the MAC?

The Goldbrick:

So the Goldbrick is no longer in production. From the list archive I gather
that even Eric Singer has run out of the remaining stock long ago, too bad.
Accidentally I tracked down a current email address of the Goldbricks
maker, Donald Eastlake. He tells me that he also has no more Goldbricks

A while ago it was suggested on this list (by Eric Singer??) to talk to him
about building another batch. Sounds good to me. But how many people are
still looking for Goldbricks today?
If there are more than a few, why not try to convince Donald Eastlake?

And I hardly dare to ask, but does anybody on the list want to sell their
Goldbrick interface?


A device called PGSI (Power Glove Serial Interface) might be a possible
alternative to the Goldbrick. It is made by the SIGarch Group of UIUC.
Further info is available at:

The PGSI costs about 115 US$.
Unfortunately the makers at UIUC could not tell me anything about using the
PGSI with MAX.

Has anyone on this list ever tried to use the PGSI with MAX? Any luck?

I would really appreciate any help with this matter! I want to use the
PowerGlove for some initial experiments with dance movements as an input
for music/lightning, and the PowerGlove appears to be the cheapest sensor
around. Any comments on this kind of application are also highly welcome.

Greetings from Germany,

Christoph Hoelscher
IIG Kognitionswissenschaft  -  Friedrichstr. 50  -   D-79098 Freiburg
      phon: 0761-203-4937

home address:  c/o Larrain - Schillerstr. 4 - 79102 Freiburg
                      phon: 0761-7071794  
* Never send a monster to do the work of an Evil Scientist  - B.B. *


Date:    Thu, 1 Oct 1998 10:39:20 -0400
From:    Chris Murtagh Hrdc-drhc 
Subject: Re: PowerGlove, Goldbrick, PGSI ???

From: "Christoph Hoelscher" , on
10/1/98 11:10 AM:
>Does anybody know of other interfaces for the MAC?

Dare I suggest the iCube? (I know a lot of people are thinking 'Here goes
Chris with that iCube pitch again'). It is not cheap (I think it was
$600-700 US or so), but from my experience it is well worth the $$,
especially if you like to fiddle with electronics. The nice thing is that
it is super flexible and it can send control voltages as well as receive
them. Pretty nifty thing, for more info check

 For those of you that are wondering, no I don't work for Infusion Systems,
nor do I get a % (although, maybe I should ask for one :) ). I just have
had some really great experiences with the iCube, and I like to support
small (Canadian !) companies.

If a train station is where the train stops, what is a work station?


Date:    Thu, 1 Oct 1998 18:16:31 EDT
Subject: movie object question

I think I know the answer to this but is there a way to get rid of the ugly
title bar in the movie object?


End of MAX Digest - 30 Sep 1998 to 1 Oct 1998 (#1998-18)