Subject: MAX Digest - 16 Sep 1998 to 17 Sep 1998 (#1998-4)
Date: Fri, 18 Sep 1998 00:00:00 -0400
From: Automatic digest processor 
Reply-To: MAX - Interactive Music/Multimedia Standard Environments
     
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There are 8 messages totalling 265 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Am I crazy? re: news part I and II (2)
  2. sfplay~ crash
  3. MSP Audio Sync (2)
  4. stuff about the Korg 1212 I/O
  5. Window flags messages to thispatcher/hide the padlock?
  6. Window characteristics of many patchers with send and receive object

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Date:    Thu, 17 Sep 1998 00:44:25 -0400
From:    Stephen Kay 
Subject: Re: Am I crazy? re: news part I and II

>seems more likely to me that the reason for porting MAX to NT is to go
>after that market.  The motivation for which might have more to do with
>wanting to be in the forefront of film/video/multimedia production than
>pure profit.  Although those people do have a lot of money to spend,
>besides the technical sophistication to appreciate MAX.

>Nick Longo

That very well could be.  But I've also heard that getting something
like a ms accurate clock to run under Windows 95/98 is ridiculously
difficult, where as with NT it's not.  But like you, I'm
just guessing...

Stephen Kay

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Date:    Thu, 17 Sep 1998 09:13:34 +0200
From:    Martin Grube 
Subject: sfplay~ crash

>From: les@ZEEP.COM
>Subject: Re: sfplay~ crash
>
>>From:    Martin Grube >
>>a crash occurs regularly when sending an open message to sfplay~ trying
>>to open a file that is already open and still playing.
>
>Martin, are you using the current version of MSP? I think this
>bug was fixed long ago.
>
>Les
>
I'm using MSP 5, OS 8.1 and a G3/233. To make sure having no corrupted files
I reinstalled MSP again, and also tried booting with the standard extensions
configuration. Max Version is 3.5.9. A crash can be produced with a simple
sfplay~ patch: open a soundfile, then play it and send the open message
again while the file is still playing. The screen will freeze immediately.

Ok, this could be prevented by closing each soundfile after playing is
finished.
But also a crash occurs randomly when playing several sound files at the
same time and a preload  message is sent to another sfplay~
object and after a certain time delay a play cue command is sent. This seems
to work more safe when that time delay between preload and play is longer
(some seconds).
PowerPC access exception at ...          sfplay_convert +0000C
What causes that crash ?

Martin

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Date:    Thu, 17 Sep 1998 10:02:36 -0400
From:    Michael Sweet 
Subject: Re: MSP Audio Sync

Martin Grube writes:

>You can trigger the audio file with MTC (derived from SMPTE or VITC) and
>this works pretty exactly even when triggering several sfplay~ objects at
>the same time. But to synchronize the sample clock to your external
>equipment you need a digital audio card. What audio card are you using and
>to what source or device you want to synchronize MSP ?

I'm using an AMIII card but that will change soon.  I will either use a
digital time piece or smpte slave driver or equivilent to drive the digital
sync mechanism.

I haven't used SMPTE and Max together ever so I was a little concerned
about trying to trigger a sfplay object using SMPTE.  But I understand you
now and will let you know my results.

-Thanks
Michael Sweet

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 17 Sep 1998 10:30:01 -0400
From:    Chris Murtagh Hrdc-drhc 
Subject: Re: Am I crazy? re: news part I and II

From: "Nicholas Longo" <71477.2332@COMPUSERVE.COM>, on 9/16/98 9:11 PM:
>I think some may be jumping to conclusions assuming the motive for
>porting MAX to Windows NT is just profit.  I'm not as familiar with
>Windows, but my understanding is that NT is server software,
>designed for running networks.

There are some other serious reasons for choosing NT over Win9X, like the
fact that NT deals with multi-threading in a much better fashion. Win9X is
really pretty much of a joke as far as OSes goes, especially when you
consider multi-tasking, etc.. I guess in some ways it might be a bit easier
to do some real-time DSP with Win9X as it seems that almost any process can
gobble all the resources it wants. Then again, if the OS decides it is now
a good time to transfer something to the virtual memory (which it does all
too often), there goes another glitch in your audio.

>It's nowhere near as pervasive as Windows 95/98, which is the
>desktop PC operating system that's Microsoft's version of the Mac
>OS.

 From my understanding, this is going to change. Win98 is the last of its
breed, as NT 5.0 will merge into the next generation 'Windows for dummies'
OS (in a similar way to Apple's old plan to merge Rhapsody into MacOS). For
the average Wintel user, this means they will have something to look
forward to in their next upgrade (unlike Win95 --> Win98), but they will
still have to deal with all the similar crap that exists in Windows today
(like the hundreds of system files, the insane system registry, crappy
hardware, Plug 'n' Pray... you get the idea). I wouldn't be surprised if
this is what convinced Apple to get off their asses and start to deliver a
real OS (Rhapsody/OSX). With a little luck, Apple will actually deliver
what they promised in the last developers conference. Maybe at the same
time, they can convince someone to trash and rebuild sound manager (from
scratch please).

Chris
---------------------------------
* Windows 95: n.   32 bit extensions and a graphical shell for a 16 bit
patch to an 8 bit operating system originally coded for a 4 bit
microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that can't stand 1 bit of
competition.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 17 Sep 1998 16:51:33 +0200
From:    Martin Grube 
Subject: Re: MSP Audio Sync

>From: Michael Sweet 
>Subject: Re: MSP Audio Sync
>Date: Don, 17. Sep 1998 16:02 Uhr
>
>I will either use a
>digital time piece or smpte slave driver or equivilent to drive the digital
>sync mechanism.
>
If your looking for a good LTC/VITC to MTC converter there's WIF from German
manufacturer Rosendahl-Studiotechnik. It supplies MTC and also SuperClock or
wordclock at high precision so it's a good replacement for the smpte slave
driver at half of the costs. I heard the devices will soon be sold in the
States by Aardvark. If you are interested send a mail so I can give you some
more information.
But remember MTC triggering doen't control the speed of the audio. There has
to be always a combination of triggering and controlling the sample clock.

Martin

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 17 Sep 1998 14:32:47 -0600
From:    Kevin Walker 
Subject: Re: stuff about the Korg 1212 I/O

>1. We have a report that the combination of a G3 running System 8.1, an
>extension called "ATI Driver Update" that is probably used
>on G3s (that have ATI "Rage" video cards), but doesn't appear
>to be necessary, and the Korg 1212 in use with MSP results
>in what I've dubbed the "problem from hell" mentioned here
>by Kevin Walker a few days ago in which all Sound Input sources
>disappear from the System. Replacing the System file usually makes
>the input sources reappear. If you disable the ATI Driver Update
>extension, it appears that the problem from hell will not
>happen. There may be other ways of acquiring the problem from
>hell, but it's definitely happening to machines with this
>combination of stuff. Whose fault is it? I have no idea. Korg
>claims they saw something like this happening in 7.5.3 and
>traced it to an Apple bug.

Just for the record, I don't have a Korg 1212 (or any other DSP card).  I'm
on the road at the moment, so I can't check whether I have the "ATI Driver
Update" extension.

Thanks for looking into this.

Kevin

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 17 Sep 1998 17:39:33 -0400
From:    Shamus Jary Mcconney 
Subject: Re: Window flags messages to thispatcher/hide the padlock?

>Frederic Murray  asks:
>
>>is there a message for hide (and show) the padlock without hide close
>>box and title bar?
>
>Those darned kids are at it again. No, there's no way to do this,
>but it's not a bad idea for something to add to thispatcher. I think
>that padlock is going to have to go away eventually anyway. It's a
>nasty hack.
>
>David Z.

You can use the click on the command-click on patcher background trick to
lock and unlock patchers.
This has become my perfered method since the close window and edit icons
are right next to eachother and their keyboard shortcuts, command-w and
command-e, are also right next to each other.

Shamus McConney

mcconney@nwe.ufl.edu
http://web.nwe.ufl.edu/~mcconney/
http://web.nwe.ufl.edu/~mcconney/Pd+.html

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 17 Sep 1998 22:05:00 -0000
From:    Frederic Murray 
Subject: Window characteristics of many patchers with send and receive
object

Hello Maxers,

anybody have tried the tip for hide and show windows on page 31
of Addendum?

(look in the book for follow my instructions)
I place a receive messages_to_thispatcher in somes of my patchers.
So, with the send messages_to_thispatcher in a master patcher I can
control the status of all my other patchers. It work very fine when
I have only one patcher open.

But, if I use two patchers (or more), only one patcher respond to the
message?!? (I think it's the last patcher that I have open)

The syntax of my send and receive object are ok because when I send
a close message all the windows closing immediately.

Anybody have ideas or comments?

Thank you

Frederic Murray
Etudiant en musique
Universite Laval, Quebec
aae052@agora.ulaval.ca

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End of MAX Digest - 16 Sep 1998 to 17 Sep 1998 (#1998-4)
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