Subject: MAX Digest - 15 Sep 1998 to 16 Sep 1998 (#1998-3)
Date: Thu, 17 Sep 1998 00:00:01 -0400
From: Automatic digest processor 
Reply-To: MAX - Interactive Music/Multimedia Standard Environments
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There are 11 messages totalling 323 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. stuff about the Korg 1212 I/O
  2. Window flags messages to thispatcher/hide the padlock?
  3. Am I crazy? re: news part I and II (2)
  4. ultra sound clicking
  5. Yes, I'm crazy...(but you all knew that anyway)
  6. MSP Audio Sync (2)
  7. Timeline Question
  8. audio in/out card for Powerbooks info
  9. sfplay~ crash

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Date:    Wed, 16 Sep 1998 00:54:23 -0700
From:    David Zicarelli 
Subject: stuff about the Korg 1212 I/O

1. We have a report that the combination of a G3 running System 8.1, an
extension called "ATI Driver Update" that is probably used
on G3s (that have ATI "Rage" video cards), but doesn't appear
to be necessary, and the Korg 1212 in use with MSP results
in what I've dubbed the "problem from hell" mentioned here
by Kevin Walker a few days ago in which all Sound Input sources
disappear from the System. Replacing the System file usually makes
the input sources reappear. If you disable the ATI Driver Update
extension, it appears that the problem from hell will not
happen. There may be other ways of acquiring the problem from
hell, but it's definitely happening to machines with this
combination of stuff. Whose fault is it? I have no idea. Korg
claims they saw something like this happening in 7.5.3 and
traced it to an Apple bug.

2. I/O Latency figures for the Korg card under certain conditions:

Using the forthcoming ASIO driver, the I/O latency is 37ms.
Using the default "offset" setting of the MSP audiodriver,
the I/O latency is 49ms.

Here are latencies measured with other "offset" settings,
you change this setting by sending the message

; dsp driver offset N, where N goes from 0 to 7.

offset = 0: latency 95.6 ms (MSP 1 old version default)
offset = 1: latency 14.33 ms, bad audio distortion
offset = 2: latency 25.94 ms
offset = 3: latency 37.55 ms (same as ASIO)
offset = 4: latency 49.16 ms (default)
offset = 5: latency 60.77 ms
offset = 6: latency 72.38 ms
offset = 7: latency 83.99 ms

David Z.


Date:    Wed, 16 Sep 1998 00:31:19 -0700
From:    David Zicarelli 
Subject: Re: Window flags messages to thispatcher/hide the padlock?

Frederic Murray  asks:

>is there a message for hide (and show) the padlock without hide close
>box and title bar?

Those darned kids are at it again. No, there's no way to do this,
but it's not a bad idea for something to add to thispatcher. I think
that padlock is going to have to go away eventually anyway. It's a
nasty hack.

David Z.


Date:    Wed, 16 Sep 1998 00:43:14 -0700
From:    David Zicarelli 
Subject: Re: Am I crazy? re: news part I and II

Christopher Murtagh is concerned that the naked pursuit of profit
will distract my attention from the support of Max and MSP
on the Mac platform. I am not doing the Windows port myself.
I don't know how to program Windows, and I'd like to learn as
little as possible about it. However, just to provide Mr. Murtagh
with even more grounds for anxiety, I will mention that Max
and MSP are not the only things we're doing on the *Mac* platform,
and I hope that these other things will appear over the next
couple of years. But long before that, you'll see new Mac
versions of Max and MSP.

David Z.


Date:    Wed, 16 Sep 1998 16:24:29 +0800
From:    jmustard@CYLLENE.UWA.EDU.AU
Subject: ultra sound clicking

Karlheinz Essl wrote:
>Be aware that ultrasonic sensors (such as I-Cube's FarReach) are producing
>enervating clicking noises that makes them inapprobriate for sound

I have successsfully used the icube Far reach in an interactive
installlation. It does require careful placement to minimise the
clicking noise.
I placed it near the entrance to the installation space and behind a
curtain so that once you passed by the curtain the clicking was barely
audible - also the sounds that it triggered were louder than the
clicking - hope this helps.


Date:    Wed, 16 Sep 1998 09:20:37 -0400
From:    Chris Murtagh Hrdc-drhc 
Subject: Yes, I'm crazy...(but you all knew that anyway)

From: "David Zicarelli" , on 9/16/98 3:43 AM:
>But long before that, you'll see new Mac versions of Max and MSP.

Thanks David for easing my WWD (Windoze World Domination) paranoia
(amplified by the fact that I have to sit in front of a Wintel machine all
day in a department that used to be all Mac). I'll just crawl back into the
closet with my Linux box, G3s, iMacs and a couple of MacAddict magazines.

* Windows 95: n.   32 bit extensions and a graphical shell for a 16 bit
patch to an 8 bit operating system originally coded for a 4 bit
microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that can't stand 1 bit of


Date:    Wed, 16 Sep 1998 10:35:39 -0400
From:    Michael Sweet 
Subject: Re: MSP Audio Sync

Martin Grube writes:
>I think this depends on the hardware you're using. The only devices that
>achieve real chase synchronization with the smpte slave driver are the
>digidesign 881/2/8 I/O's but I don't know if they're supported by MSP. But
>if you have a audio card with digi inputs (like AM III) you can feed a
>(digital) audio signal to them and your audio played from MSP is sync'd to
>that signal (because there's only one sample clock). This could be e.g. a
>silent audio clock derived from a word clock or video clock source or a
>SP/DIF signal from a DAT recorder.

Has anyone actually done this?  I remember this being explained to me
before the advent of DAT w. timecode, but I never saw anyone actually do it.

This would give me clock sync but how would I find the initial offset.....?

Do I grab the smpte time and start my sound file playing at that moment?
Which would probably cause some predictable delay which I could account

Has anyone tried it and can give me their thoughts about building a max

Thanks -
Michael Sweet


Date:    Wed, 16 Sep 1998 10:39:51 -0400
From:    Don Malone 
Subject: Timeline Question

>When I open a timeline in max each timeline track (other than the marker
>track) seems to load it's own patch directly.  Is it possible to have two
>tracks accessing the same patch without it opening the same patch twice?

i use a dummy patcher with send objects to the main patcher
this gives you a separate track for each dummy

happy tunes



Date:    Wed, 16 Sep 1998 17:15:41 +0200
From:    Martin Grube 
Subject: Re: MSP Audio Sync

>From: Michael Sweet 
>Subject: Re: MSP Audio Sync
>Date: Mit, 16. Sep 1998 16:35 Uhr
>Do I grab the smpte time and start my sound file playing at that moment?
>Which would probably cause some predictable delay which I could account

You can trigger the audio file with MTC (derived from SMPTE or VITC) and
this works pretty exactly even when triggering several sfplay~ objects at
the same time. But to synchronize the sample clock to your external
equipment you need a digital audio card. What audio card are you using and
to what source or device you want to synchronize MSP ?



Date:    Wed, 16 Sep 1998 22:34:40 +0000
From:    david stevens 
Subject: audio in/out card for Powerbooks info

hi all,

here's some info that i just received that will be of interest to those of
with PowerBooks in the UK who (like me) are waiting with bated breath for
audio in/outs.

for other territories, there are links to distributors on DigiGrams web



Replies to your points are as under;

1/      PCXpocket Mac Drivers were demoed at the International Broadcast
Convention - Amsterdam (over weekend) and are scheduled for release end
October / beginning November.

2/      Digigram PCXpocket           888.00 gbp excluding VAT and Delivery.

Digigram PCXpocket AD    1055.00 gbp excluding VAT and Delivery.

3/      PCXPocket is available from PCX Solutions - delivery 3-4 days.
Paul Anderson
PCX Solutions
Tel: 44 1296 670 777
Fax: 44 1296 670 740



Date:    Wed, 16 Sep 1998 21:11:11 -0400
From:    Nicholas Longo <71477.2332@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject: Re: Am I crazy? re: news part I and II

<<>Furthermore, imagine what would happen if it became a
<<>successful Windows product, and suddenly sales were great
<<>enough that David Z./Cycling '74 could actually hire and put
<<>*more than one person* on further development,

<< So, after a few years of successful Windoze sales, the heads of Cycling
<<'74 get together and say:"Hrm, we are making oodles of profit via our

I think some may be jumping to conclusions assuming the motive for porting
MAX to Windows NT is just profit.  I'm not as familiar with Windows, but my

understanding is that NT is server software, designed for running networks.
It's nowhere near as pervasive as Windows 95/98, which is the desktop PC
operating system that's Microsoft's version of the Mac OS.  It's the
market for software that runs on Windows 95/98 that's ten times larger
than for Macintosh, although the number of users of music software is
about the same as for Macintosh.  Besides that, professionals and academics
still strongly favor Macintosh.

But the announced port is to Windows NT, which is software primarily used
by businesses to network their Windows 95/98 PCs.  Except that high end
post production houses are migrating away from SGI and Macintosh to NT,
for reasons I'm not privy to.  But I do know that many high end animation
and video editing packages are being developed for, or ported to, NT.  So
seems more likely to me that the reason for porting MAX to NT is to go
after that market.  The motivation for which might have more to do with
wanting to be in the forefront of film/video/multimedia production than
pure profit.  Although those people do have a lot of money to spend,
besides the technical sophistication to appreciate MAX.

Of course I could be way off base here.  Just a theory.  Maybe David Z.
will let us in on his thinking.

Nick Longo


Date:    Wed, 16 Sep 1998 19:59:01 -0700
From:    les@ZEEP.COM
Subject: Re: sfplay~ crash

>From:    Martin Grube 

>a crash occurs regularly when sending an open message to sfplay~ trying
>to open a file that is already open and still playing.

Martin, are you using the current version of MSP? I think this
bug was fixed long ago.



End of MAX Digest - 15 Sep 1998 to 16 Sep 1998 (#1998-3)