Subject: MAX Digest - 13 Sep 1998 to 14 Sep 1998
Date: Tue, 15 Sep 1998 00:00:00 -0400
From: Automatic digest processor 
Reply-To: MAX - Interactive Music/Multimedia Standard Environments
     
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There are 12 messages totalling 395 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. web-dj-web-ring
  2. "detonate" bug ?
  3. Two Questions - Time code and Try again (4)
  4. Am I crazy? re: news part I and II (2)
  5. some answers
  6. list-editor
  7. movement detection->MIDI
  8. Two Questions - Time code and Try Again

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Date:    Mon, 14 Sep 1998 13:27:44 +0000
From:    BUYO-BUYO-IGOR 
Subject: web-dj-web-ring

BUYO-BUYO-IGOR writing..
Is somebody working on J-MAX over here?
If you are?
Hope you could let your site involed  in the "WEB-DJ-WEB-RING" thing.
It's at:
http://www.mars.dti.ne.jp/~buyobuyo/webdj.html

any other www-interactive music-creation thing "especially based on MAX" are
 welcome..
----

BUYO-BUYO-IGOR
http://i.am/sarigama

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 13 Sep 1998 21:58:27 -0700
From:    David Zicarelli 
Subject: Re: "detonate" bug ?

Danny Wiseburgh  writes:

>the max 3.5 addendum reads (page 46): "Any detonate object with the same
>name argument will share the same event data".
>
>i never managed to get this to work. seems like data is never shared, even
>when the name arguments of two "detonate" objects are identical.

It doesn't work. I've admitted this before. I hope you'll accept my
apologies, and we can move forward.

David Z.

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 13 Sep 1998 22:02:45 -0700
From:    David Zicarelli 
Subject: Re: Two Questions - Time code and Try again

Jon Witte  asks:

>2.  Is it possible to disable the OMS "Try again /Give up" dialog that
>appears when you fire up a standalone Max application and the computer
>is not running OMS.  I have certain max applications that do not use
>midi at all, yet if the program is fired up on a computer without OMS
>you get this dialog.

This doesn't make any sense. If the computer isn't running OMS,
how could you get this dialog, which comes from OMS? Personally,
I've never seen this dialog. What does it say other than the
two buttons?

Max 3.5 does not require OMS. If OMS isn't present, it won't
do MIDI.

David Z.

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 14 Sep 1998 09:34:12 +0200
From:    Martin Grube 
Subject: Two Questions - Time code and Try again

>Date:    Sun, 13 Sep 1998 09:31:13 -0500
>From:    Jon Witte 
>Subject: Two Questions - Time code and Try again
>
>Hello Maxers,
>
>1.  Is it possible to generate and send midi time code or beat clock out
>of max and into an external device such as an effects processor or midi
>sequencer via a studio 4.  I've looked around the manual , but I can't
>seem to figure out what combination of objects I need to do this.
>

Peter Elsea wrote some Max Tutorials and among others there's
=8CMax&MTC.sea.Hqx=B9 about Midi Time Code.
You can find it at ftp://arts.ucsc.edu/pub/ems/MaxTutors/

But MTC quarter frame messages are not transmitted properly when generated
in Max, even sending it as raw Midi data to a midiout object (I don't know
why this is so). On the other hand MTC generated from an application is not
reliable for exact timing, the better way is using an external sync source.
Doesn't has Studio 4 a MTC generator ? Maybe you can start it at a specific
point with a MTC offset message from Max, then sync Max and your FX
processor to Studio 4.

Martin

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 14 Sep 1998 13:41:18 -0000
From:    Nick Rothwell 
Subject: Re: Two Questions - Time code and Try again

> 1.  Is it possible to generate and send midi time code or beat clock out
> of max and into an external device such as an effects processor or midi
> sequencer via a studio 4.

Beat clock works fine, as far as I recall, as does Song Position
Pointer. (I use an external beat source these days.) I *think* you
have to route the messages to the Studio 4 directly; that'll make the
clock messages come out. SPP might be a little more tricky.

MTC from MAX: never tried it. Again, I use external sources.

--
        Nick Rothwell, CASSIEL            contemporary dance projects
        http://www.cassiel.com            music synthesis and control

  "Welcome to Moscow, Mrs. Gandhi."  -- Leonid Brezhnev to Margaret Thatcher

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 14 Sep 1998 14:12:48 -0000
From:    Nick Rothwell 
Subject: Re: Two Questions - Time code and Try again

> Doesn't has Studio 4 a MTC generator ?

It has a SMPTE striper and reader; I don't know whether it can be
instructed to generate SMPTE and pipe MTC back to the Mac if there's
not an external recording/playback medium connected, but it might just
work. It sounds like a fiddly way to go about things, though.

--
        Nick Rothwell, CASSIEL            contemporary dance projects
        http://www.cassiel.com            music synthesis and control

  "Welcome to Moscow, Mrs. Gandhi."  -- Leonid Brezhnev to Margaret Thatcher

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 14 Sep 1998 13:08:54 -0400
From:    Chris Murtagh Hrdc-drhc 
Subject: Am I crazy? re: news part I and II

Warning - Opinionated matter.

Regarding recent announcements from David Z.:

 The good news:

>I signed an agreement with Steinberg today to allow MSP
>to host ASIO (Audio Stream I/O) drivers.

 This sounds great (other than the 19ms latency). Please let us know when
MOTU's 2408 will be working with MSP.

The bad(?) news:

>The first of these agreements will allow my company to develop
>new versions of Max, including a version for Windows NT that is
>projected for mid-1999 release.

 I don't know if I'm just blinded by my dislike for MS products and/or
their (lack of) business ethics (oxymoron?), but I fail to see how this
would be good news for existing MAX users.  Does this mean that David Z.'s
(already over taxed) talent and resources will now be split in half so that
some of his time will be spent in the windoze domain? Will the effect of
this be that new Max development will slow down?  Am I the only one that
enjoyed Antiorp's Anti-PC/pro-Mac postings even though they were entirely
OT (please don't post any more)? I feel that a porting of MAX to Linux
would make me feel a little less betrayed, but the resource drain to do so
could be much better spend (IMO) on fixing/improving MAX on the existing
platform. Am I alone and/or way out to lunch here?

Disturbed (a bit more than normally),

Chris

---------------------------------
* Windows 95: n.   32 bit extensions and a graphical shell for a 16 bit
patch to an 8 bit operating system originally coded for a 4 bit
microprocessor, written by a 2 bit company, that can't stand 1 bit of
competition.

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 14 Sep 1998 12:57:32 -0700
From:    Peter Elsea 
Subject: some answers

Jon Witte asks:
>1.  Is it possible to generate and send midi time code...

We looked into this in great detail last spring- you can generate MTC isn a
sloppy sort of way, but OMS won't let it out the door. Older editions of
Max that connect directly to the serial port will send it for you.  (You
can find out how in my tutorial "Max and MTC" that can be found at
ftp://arts.ucsc.edu/pub/ems/maxtutors  These are in Word 5.1 format.)
It's only as accurate as the Macintosh clock however. A better choice would
be to let the MTP generate the code and follow it with Max. (I don't have
an MTP so I don't know the details of how to control it-- someone else jump
in here.)

>2.  Is it possible to disable the OMS "Try again /Give up" dialog that
>appears when you fire up a standalone Max application and the computer
>is not running OMS.

The more recent versions of Maxplay don't seem to do this.

 Danny Wiseburgh reasonably points out:
>it seems strange that a programming environment specializing in music has
>no support for the current standard midi file format.

Yes it does seem strange, until you start designing the code. Then you
realize that to do it right, you pretty much have to rewrite Vision. And
why bother, since you can run Vision from Max* (via AIC and MIDIKeys) Come
to think of it, this is a good way to accomplish #1, since Vision will
generate MTC and send it to the world as well as back to Max. (It will even
control an MTP for you.)
*The trick is Vision has to be in the foreground, so to program a MIDIKey
as coming from AIC, you have to set Max to send the key message
automatically, switch to Vision, high light the event field in the MIDIkeys
window, and wait. Tedious, but effective.

Peter Elsea
Electronic Music Studios
University of California, Santa Cruz
http://arts.ucsc.edu/EMS/Music/index.html
 elsea@cats.ucsc.edu

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 14 Sep 1998 23:04:35 +0200
From:    Roland Cahen & Ruth Sefton-Green 
Subject: list-editor

"Dr. Karlheinz Essl"  and Klaus Filip wrote:
>
>> but i read something about a special designed omenue which may do the
>> things, i would like.
>This object was created by Roland Hemming years ago in 68k code - and I

Are you talking of CollList
Unfortunately, it appears to be quite costly
How much ?
and  I have heard it was quite bugged.
How much ??

Roland Cahen

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 14 Sep 1998 23:21:10 +0100
From:    Roald Baudoux 
Subject: movement detection->MIDI

What is the best movement detection system available for an affordable
price? (I-Cube, Midi Creator/Midi Gesture, SoundBeam or another one)?

If you have experienced such systems please tell me about your
experience.

Thank you.

Roald Baudoux
roald.baudoux@village.uunet.be
herr_beesbox@hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 14 Sep 1998 17:54:44 -0400
From:    Stephen Kay 
Subject: Am I crazy? re: news part I and II

>Chris Murtagh responds to:

>>David Z.
>>The first of these agreements will allow my company to develop
>>new versions of Max, including a version for Windows NT that is
>>projected for mid-1999 release.

> I don't know if I'm just blinded by my dislike for MS products and/or
>their (lack of) business ethics (oxymoron?), but I fail to see how this
>would be good news for existing MAX users.  Does this mean that David Z.=
's
>(already over taxed) talent and resources will now be split in half so
that
>some of his time will be spent in the windoze domain? Will the effect of=

>this be that new Max development will slow down?

That's a rather myopic view point in my opinion.  Max would probably be =

dead if sales of it were any indicator. It's only through a great love of=

it by a small, select group of individuals, and mostly the time and
effort of David Z. that it still exists at all.  But we all know it's
an amazing piece of software; even more so with the addition of MSP. Woul=
d
you deny David Z. the right to profit from selling this amazing creation =

to an audience of more than 10 times the size?  Furthermore, imagine what=
 =

would happen if it became a successful Windows product, and suddenly sale=
s =

were great enough that David Z./Cycling '74 could actually hire and put =

*more than one person* on further development, and support of all those
whacky digi cards?  That would be a good thing.

>Am I the only one that
>enjoyed Antiorp's Anti-PC/pro-Mac postings even though they were entirel=
y
>OT (please don't post any more)?

Probably. ;-)  And isn't it your job to mention it's OT *when it happens*=
?

Stephen Kay

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 14 Sep 1998 22:55:24 -0500
From:    Jon Witte 
Subject: Re: Two Questions - Time code and Try Again

> I can't help you with timecode, but beat clock is simple.  bang '248'
> directly into a midiout for beat clock, 250 for start, 252 for stop.
> (Yes, it might be logical to assume that there was an 'rtout' to
> correspond to the 'rtin', but that's not the case.)
>
I thank you for this info and for information's sake I will also mention
that you have to bang 248 24 times per quarter note.  So if I'm banging
248 with a tempo object, the arguments for the tempo object should be a
multiplier of 1 and a rhythmic value of 96.  Does this sound right?
Please correct me if I'm wrong.

> >2.  Is it possible to disable the OMS "Try again /Give up" dialog that
> >appears when you fire up a standalone Max application and the computer
> >is not running OMS.  I have certain max applications that do not use
> >midi at all, yet if the program is fired up on a computer without OMS
> >you get this dialog.
>

> I'm not sure, but it might be possible to get rid of this by compiling
> the app with the "No Midi Setup Dialog On Startup" box checked.
>
No, this only gets rid of the Max midi setup dialog.

> There's probably a bit in a resource that could be set with ResEdit
> to disable this, but it'd be hell to find it, unless someone can tell
> us where it is :-)
>
How about it David Z?

--
Jon Witte - Music Machine Studio

http://www2.cybernex.net/~jonwitte/
--
******************************************************

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End of MAX Digest - 13 Sep 1998 to 14 Sep 1998
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