Subject: MAX Digest - 30 Jul 1998 to 31 Jul 1998 - Special issue
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 15:14:26 -0400
From: Automatic digest processor 
Reply-To: MAX - Interactive Music/Multimedia Standard Environments
     
To: Recipients of MAX digests 

There are 9 messages totalling 701 lines in this issue.

Topics in this special issue:

  1. Sound Card performances for use with MSP?
  2. Night School patches
  3. random object (again)
  4. u nbutton u rbrightness
  5. Dead key numbers light up
  6. 288 196632   f       3 . m 2 s k ! n 3 n k u n z t . m 9 n d f u k c .
9 8
     o; #P noclick;
  7. Subject: Re: Joysticks for Max/Mac?
  8. problem with detonate object
  9. starting audio from a loadbang

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Information is available on the WEB at http://www.mcgill.ca/cc/listserv

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 30 Jul 1998 23:12:03 -0700
From:    David Zicarelli 
Subject: Re: Sound Card performances for use with MSP?

>I'm looking for a sound card to use with MSP. Reading the manual, I
>lack some information to guide my choice. I am hesitating between
>Sonorus STUDI/O and Korg 1212I/O.
>1. CPU USE: Writing about the Lucid PCI24, it states that about
>25% of the CPU power is used for I/O on a typical machine.
>Q? is that amount the same for every card under the same circumstances
>(like same sampling rate, same amount of bits and same number of channels)?

No, and that's why we said something about it. The Korg and Sonorus
cards have an overhead of about 10% - 14% when compared to the
Sound Manager for two channels of I/O. Four channels of I/O is
about 20% of the CPU with the Sonorus card, for another data
point that will probably not be enough information for the ever
inquisitive audience for fun facts about audio cards.

>Q? Is the percentage of CPU use directly proportional to the number
>of bits per sample or is it mainly dependent on the driver software?
>In Sonorus developpers notes on the web, 24 bits mode requires double
>the PCI bandwidth compared to the 16 bits mode; but I'm not sure
>this can be directly related to CPU use; by the way, does cycling
>support the two modes? it is not stated in the manual.

The Sonorus card can do either 16-bit int or 32-bit float transfers.
I recently changed MSP to use the latter on the company's recommendation
due to the fact that there is a bug in the DSP chip they use with
16-bit transfers and the float-to-int conversion can be done
more efficiently if they do it than if MSP does it before
transferring the samples. Plus it should sound better on better
hardware. However, both versions of the Sonorus driver are
available for the truly anal. I didn't notice a huge difference
in CPU usage with 16- versus float transfers.

>2. LATENCY: It's stated that Korg 1212I/O has the lowest latency with 512
>sample buffers. Is latency for hardware cards only dependent on I/O
>buffer size?

It's dependent on I/O buffer size and the number of I/O buffers
in use between the computer and the real world. The Korg actually
lets you, if you're sneaky, control the number of buffers you use
from 2 to 8. This is supported in the new Korg MSP driver.

>Q? Are there other supported cards which have the same or a lower
>latency since the manual was written (I saw on the web that the
>sonorus driver for Mac was updated 06/24/98)?

The Sonorus driver's latency is independent of the I/O vector
size...it's 2092 samples (~ 47 ms).

In the new version of MSP there is a cute little patch that
Les Stuck and I wrote that lets you automatically determine the
latency of your system. That's what I used to determine the
above result.

>Q? What cards currently supported allow for more than 16 bits transfer?

Digidesign d24, Lucid PCI24, Sonorus StudI/O. Not the Korg 1212 I/O.

>Q? Is the ADAT optical link of the Korg 1212I/O capable of 24 bits,
>like the Sonorus STUDI/O?

Ask Korg.

David Z.

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 30 Jul 1998 23:17:19 -0700
From:    David Zicarelli 
Subject: Night School patches

Anyone interested in some of the examples used in the Max/MSP
Night School at CNMAT can download them from:

http://cnmat.CNMAT.Berkeley.EDU/MAX/nightschool/

(Note that about 80% of the stuff is related to MSP.)

Thanks for Matt Wright for assembling this archive.

David Z.

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 31 Jul 1998 09:25:23 +0200
From:    "Dr. Karlheinz Essl" 
Subject: Re: random object (again)

Sukandar Kartadinata  wrote:

> I was wondering if there's an alternative object to 'random' which seems
to
> "lump" repetitions for low numbers of choices. For a long series of random
> numbers the average amount of repetition is as it should be, however on a
> small scale that's not the case - I often get the same number 5 times in a
> row, then 30 numbers w/o any repetition.
> I know there's 'decide' for binary decisions, but it'd be great to have
> something similar for numbers from 3 to, say, 10.

You can find various random generators in my "Realtime Composition Library"
for MAX:

        http://www.essl.at/works/rtc.html

Among nearly two dozens of random objects there is one called "series"
(modelled after Gottfried Michael Koenig's "series" generator in PR1 and
PR2) which prevents repetitions of elements before the whole supply was
"used". Another type called "permutate" prevents direct repetitions of
elements. All of them are seedable (if you are using MAX 3.5).

Hope that helps.

   Dr. Karlheinz Essl - Composer
   Vienna / Austria
   Studio for Advanced Music & Media Technology
   http://www.essl.at/

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 31 Jul 1998 03:39:08 -0600
From:    =cw4t7abs 
Subject: u nbutton u rbrightness

>Date:    Thu, 30 Jul 1998 14:13:54 -0400
>From:    Stephen Kay 
>Subject: button with brightness
>
>>karl kliem:
>>4.
>>would it be possible to have a button object with brightness-control in
>>order to display a parameter like velocity?
>
>The 3D_Text_Button in the MegaMAX Collection can be configured to do
>this.  First of all, you set the text fields to blank (several examples
>provided in the .help file).  Then, you change the off/on center color
>directly using the correct message, so you could effectively scale
>any parameter to a brightness of color, or a complete change of color.

d!sz = dze m!kro epoch.
de velt haz endurd suff!c!ent mega kataztr f!ez.
aber. non tzo great az 1 we = eczper!nesz ma!ntenant.

max v2;
#N vpatcher 100 100 621 445;
#P hidden newex 256 191 45 196617 loadbang;
#P message 429 286 65 196617 m 9n d f u kc;
#P message 266 286 162 196617   f       3. m 2 k ! n 3 n k u n z t;
#P hidden message 320 285 212 196617 window size 100 100 621 445 \, window
exec;
#N thispatcher;
#Q end;
#P hidden newobj 256 284 59 196617 thispatcher;
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#P hidden message 383 226 45 196617 color 80;
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#P flonum 125 83 35 9 0 0 0 3;
#P flonum 125 99 35 9 0 0 0 3;
#P flonum 125 115 35 9 0 0 0 3;
#P flonum 125 131 35 9 0 0 0 3;
#P flonum 125 147 35 9 0 0 0 3;
#P flonum 125 162 35 9 0 0 0 3;
#P user multiSlider 112 51 12 126 0. 127. 1 2665 47;
#P user LCD 33 51 78 126;
#P hidden number 315 126 35 9 0 255 3 3;
#P hidden newex 162 131 33 196617 * 0.28;
#P hidden message 315 147 52 196617 color \$1;
#P hidden message 134 192 105 196617 PaintRect 0 0 77 127;
#P hidden button 370 112 15 0;
#P hidden message 427 39 104 196617 write ||||||   f       3;
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#P fasten 9 0 16 0 130 193 130 193;
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#P fasten 9 0 10 0 130 183 130 183;
#P hidden fasten 9 0 5 1 130 124 190 124;
#P hidden fasten 17 0 9 0 310 222 130 222;
#P hidden fasten 18 0 7 0 312 250 38 250;
#P hidden fasten 1 0 7 0 432 33 38 33;
#P hidden fasten 21 0 19 0 261 231 341 231;
#P fasten 3 0 7 0 139 185 38 185;
#P hidden fasten 4 0 7 0 320 158 38 158;
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#P hidden connect 26 0 21 0;
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#P hidden fasten 19 0 17 0 341 211 310 211;
#P fasten 23 0 22 0 325 308 261 308;
#P hidden fasten 19 2 18 0 371 224 312 224;
#P hidden fasten 19 2 20 0 371 214 388 214;
#P hidden fasten 19 1 1 0 356 215 432 215;
#P hidden fasten 5 0 6 0 167 152 304 152 304 118 320 118;
#P fasten 0 0 22 0 423 278 261 278;
#P hidden connect 6 0 4 0;
#P fasten 8 0 5 0 117 185 167 185;
#P hidden fasten 6 0 2 0 320 104 375 104;
#P pop;

#P mess.age 266 286 162 196617   f       3. m 2 k ! n 3 n k u n z t;

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 31 Jul 1998 01:33:50 -0700
From:    Philip Aker 
Subject: Dead key numbers light up

karl kliem posted:

> > is there a way to get the keyboard code from the keyup-object ?
> > Not until I change it. If you stored the keyboard code from the
> > key object in a table at the location of the ASCII code, and
> > then indexed the table by the ASCII code output of keyup, you
> > would have something of a workaround.

> thanks for the hint. it works quite well. but there is another
> problem: there are some keys on the keyboard that do only send
> ascii or keyboard code when they are pushed twice, e.g. the
> accent keys. is there a way to get just the pushes and releases
> of all the keys? there must be a solution since the keyboard
> control panel displays every pushed button.

You might be able to have a workaround by creating a custom
Keyboard Layout. The quickest way to do this is to duplicate
the layout that you customarily use and change the IDs of all
the items in its resource file. These must be all the same
number and not conflict with any others that are in your system
or are reserved by Apple. I had some problems when I tried to
view/edit the various small keyboard icons using ResEdit (i.e.
ResEdit died) however changing the IDs and names of these items
was ok.

Then using the KCHR editor in ResEdit, edit out all the "Dead
Keys" in the KCHR resource. Instructions on how to to this are
in the ResEdit documentation - something like choose Edit Dead
Key and then Remove Dead Key from the KCHR Menu. I believe that
you also must make sure you are editing the KCHR resource with
a keyboard that matches one that is assigned in the editor
(View As...). Give the edited file a new name (also from
ResEdit because it is normally locked), strip out the 'alis'
resource, and drop it in your System File.

One problem with this method is that you will have to change
back to your regular keyboard layout manually if you do need to
type accented characters. The whole mechanism on the Macintosh
is somewhat convoluted and gets even more so when using various
international systems; but I'm able to get asciiCode 171 and
KeyBoard code 14 from _key_ when I press Option-e using a
layout warped in the above manner on the Canadian/US system I'm
using.

Cheers,

Philip

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 31 Jul 1998 11:07:42 -0600
From:    =cw4t7abs 
Subject: 288 196632   f       3 . m 2 s k ! n 3 n k u n z t . m 9 n d f u k
c .
         9 8 o; #P noclick;

kolor sl!derz.
allouz 1 2 chooze bg kolor + aktual sl!dr kolor
+ d!z.pla!.mode.

!nztrukt!onz -> dzere ar nt an+e.

max v2;
#N vpatcher 0 0 832 624;
#P hidden newex 2 599 30 196617 sel 1;
#P hidden message 9 552 85 196617 \; max hidemenubar;
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#P hidden toggle 809 107 15 0;
#P hidden newex 753 21 72 196617 sel 32 113 48;
#P hidden newex 453 509 27 196617 b 2;
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#P hidden newex 453 483 54 196617 del 15000;
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#P hidden newex 463 575 62 196617 random 600;
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#P hidden message 636 401 125 196617 message \$1 \$2 \$3 \$4 \$5 \;;
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#P hidden message 607 351 99 196617 toggle \$1 \$2 \$3 \$4 \;;
#P hidden message 608 379 122 196617 slider \$1 \$2 \$3 \$4 \$5 1 \;;
#P hidden message 622 307 92 196617 inlet \$1 \$2 \$3 \$4 \;;
#P hidden message 609 277 144 196617 flonum \$1 \$2 \$3 \$4 0 0 0 \$5 \;;
#P hidden message 598 260 125 196617 message \$1 \$2 \$3 \$4 \$5 \;;
#P hidden message 106 513 94 196617 \; max pupdate \$1 \$2;
#P hidden message 203 513 45 196617 \; max quit;
#P hidden message 12 513 91 196617 \; max showmenubar;
#P hidden message 496 69 125 196617 m!kro [=3D=3D anti mega] zl!dr;
#P hidden message 391 55 205 196617 98o =3Dcw4t7abs .
punkt.protokol.mazk!nv=
are;
#P hidden message 391 40 230 196617 m9ndzmak 4 dze uneventful human m9nd
k=BAnta!nr;
#P hidden button 19 362 15 0;
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#P hidden message 64 239 212 196617 window title \, window flags zoom grow
close \, window size 100 100 681 445 \, window exec;
#P hidden newex 27 166 62 196617 random 150;
#P hidden number 43 119 35 9 0 0 0 3;
#P hidden toggle 5 101 15 0;
#P hidden newex 23 100 55 196617 metro 100;
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#P hidden message 156 359 155 196632 =10 f =10 =10 =10 3;
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#N vpreset 4;
#X append 1 2 9 29 150 multiSlider list 10 29 \; 16 81 184 number int 40 \;
18 31 164 multiSlider list 95 \; 26 263 105 number int 65 \; 27 263 145
number int 32 \; 31 399 193 toggle;
#X append 1 2 int 0 \; 32 111 184 number int 7 \; 41 126 184 number int 95
\; 44 96 182 multiSlider list 0 \; 45 398 212 GSwitch2 int 0 \; 52 127 436
GSwitch2 int 0 \; 55 66 184;
#X append 1 2 number int 85 \; 57 37 135 multiSlider list 10 29 \; 58 30
170 multiSlider list 10 29 \;;
#X append 2 2 16 81 184 number int 0 \; 18 31 164 multiSlider list 0 \; 26
263 105 number int 40 \; 27 263 145 number int 66 \; 31 399 193 toggle int
1 \; 32 111 184 number int;
#X append 2 2 10 \; 55 66 184 number int 85 \; 41 126 184 number int 61 \;
44 96 182 multiSlider list 1 \; 45 398 212 GSwitch2 int 1 \; 52 127 436
GSwitch2 int 1 \;;
#X append 3 2 16 81 184 number int 17 \; 18 31 164 multiSlider list 0 \; 26
263 105 number int 43 \; 27 263 145 number int 71 \; 31 399 193 toggle int
1 \; 32 111 184 number int;
#X append 3 2 10 \; 41 126 184 number int 56 \; 44 96 182 multiSlider list
1 \; 45 398 212 GSwitch2 int 1 \; 52 127 436 GSwitch2 int 1 \; 55 66 184
number int 85 \;;
#X append 4 2 9 29 150 multiSlider list 10 29 \; 16 81 184 number int 40 \;
18 31 164 multiSlider list 98 \; 26 263 105 number int 10 \; 27 263 145
number int 29 \; 31 399 193 toggle;
#X append 4 2 int 1 \; 32 111 184 number int 7 \; 41 126 184 number int 98
\; 44 96 182 multiSlider list 1 \; 45 398 212 GSwitch2 int 1 \; 52 127 436
GSwitch2 int 1 \; 55 66 184;
#X append 4 2 number int 85 \; 57 37 135 multiSlider list 10 29 \; 58 30
170 multiSlider list 10 29 \;;
#P preset 296 66 18 75;
#P hidden user GSwitch2 436 127 39 32 0 0;
#P hidden message 186 172 105 196617 PaintRect 0 \$1 77 \$2;
#P hidden message 326 100 31 196617 clear;
#P hidden newex 520 214 27 196617 t b i;
#P hidden message 435 206 45 196617 color \$1;
#P hidden message 501 168 105 196617 PaintRect 0 0 77 127;
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#P hidden user GSwitch2 212 398 39 32 0 0;
#P user multiSlider 182 96 15 15 0. 1. 1 2920 15;
#P hidden newex 288 271 23 196617 abs;
#P hidden newex 252 303 34 196617 - 127;
#P number 184 126 35 9 0 0 0 3;
#P message 222 126 73 196617 out : put value;
#P hidden button 478 344 15 0;
#P message 222 81 73 196617 s l d r . k l r;
#P message 202 96 93 196617 m =BA d e;
#P message 222 111 73 196617 h e ! g h t;
#P hidden newex 295 411 34 196617 buddy;
#P hidden newex 374 99 27 196617 t b i;
#P hidden button 546 192 15 0;
#P number 184 111 35 9 0 0 1 3;
#P hidden toggle 193 399 15 0;
#P hidden message 173 342 111 196617 PaintRect 0 \$1 77 127;
#P hidden newex 368 410 27 196617 + 7;
#P hidden newex 335 410 28 196617 pack;
#P hidden number 145 263 35 9 0 127 3 3;
#P hidden number 105 263 35 9 0 0 0 3;
#P hidden newex 115 207 38 196617 unpack;
#P hidden newex 308 171 45 196617 loadbang;
#N thispatcher;
#Q end;
#P hidden newobj 764 246 59 196617 thispatcher;
#P hidden newex 308 191 42 196617 del 500;
#P hidden newex 388 171 40 196617 b 3;
#P hidden message 359 206 73 196617 MoveTo 3 120;
#P hidden message 357 172 23 196617 0.28;
#P user multiSlider 164 31 12 126 0. 127. 1 2664 32;
#P user LCD 151 31 13 126;
#P number 184 81 35 9 0 255 3 3;
#P hidden message 367 127 52 196617 color \$1;
#P hidden button 422 92 15 0;
#P hidden message 479 19 104 196617 write |||||| =10 f =10 =10 =10 3;
#P hidden newex 470 239 29 196617 r ktj;
#P hidden comment 149 283 100 196617 l!m!td betwn 0 - 127;
#P hidden message 154 358 288 196632 =10 f =10 =10 =10 3 . m 2 s k ! n 3 n
k=
 u n z
t . m 9 n d f u k c . 9 8 o;
#P noclick;
#P user multiSlider 150 29 12 126 0. 127. 2 2664 32;
#P message 318 266 170 196617 =10 f =10 =10 =10 3. m 2 s k ! n 3 n k u n z
t=
;
#P message 488 266 65 196617 m 9n d f u kc;
#P hidden message 379 287 62 196617 fullscreen 1;
#P user multiSlider 295 109 294 206 0. 127. 2 3433 32;
#P hidden newex 530 574 62 196617 random 600;
#P user multiSlider 584 150 232 454 0. 500. 5 2665 32;
#P user multiSlider 289 152 232 454 0. 500. 5 3176 32;
#P user multiSlider 25 140 232 454 0. 500. 5 2664 32;
#P user multiSlider 465 79 232 454 0. 500. 5 2921 32;
#P hidden fasten 105 0 104 0 7 623 14 623;
#P hidden fasten 105 1 76 0 27 622 17 622;
#P hidden fasten 103 0 93 0 368 503 401 503;
#P hidden fasten 102 0 101 0 786 55 752 55;
#P hidden connect 101 0 77 0;
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#P hidden fasten 99 0 79 0 780 133 603 133;
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#P hidden fasten 97 2 92 0 798 91 299 91;
#P hidden fasten 97 1 102 0 800 66 786 66;
#P hidden fasten 97 0 98 0 758 50 814 50;
#P hidden fasten 96 1 95 0 475 546 516 546;
#P hidden connect 96 0 101 1;
#P hidden fasten 95 0 23 0 516 458 769 458;
#P hidden connect 94 0 96 0;
#P hidden fasten 93 0 92 0 401 509 375 509 375 517 299 517;
#P hidden fasten 93 0 94 0 401 469 458 469;
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#P hidden fasten 91 0 86 0 299 529 271 529;
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#P hidden fasten 89 0 90 3 468 598 512 598 734 598;
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#P hidden fasten 72 0 67 0 24 384 10 384;
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#P hidden connect 71 0 72 0;
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#P hidden fasten 13 0 17 0 484 13 156 13;
#P hidden fasten 12 0 23 0 475 258 769 258;
#P hidden fasten 6 0 23 0 384 288 769 288;
#P hidden fasten 4 0 90 4 535 600 748 600;
#P hidden fasten 2 0 3 0 294 618 589 618;
#P hidden fasten 1 0 2 0 30 610 294 610;
#P hidden fasten 0 0 1 0 470 615 30 615;
#P p o p 3;

end 4+ megz v asc! mattr

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 31 Jul 1998 12:51:16 -0000
From:    David Bianciardi 
Subject: Subject: Re: Joysticks for Max/Mac?

On 7/31/98 3:59 AM, Automatic digest processor wrote:

>Subject: Re: Joysticks for Max/Mac?

hey folks -

just reviewd my digests after an absence and noticed a lot of traffic
regarding joysticks and the like.

if you're looking for a great feeling "pro" joystick to interface to any
analog-to-MIDI box (iCube, MediaMation, Nextech, or CV inputs to Peavey
PC-1600, JLCooper etc...) I suggest looking at Happ Controls:

800.511.1796 in the US  (+1.847.593.6161 otherwise)
www.happcontrols.com

they sell OEM user interface components to the arcade gaming and location
based entertainment industry.  you'll find a ton of analog (read
potentiometer) joysticks, flight controls, etc.  with and without
spring-loaded zero return, hats, buttons, triggers, etc.

If you need something bulletproof and durable, they even have NEMA 4
rated gear for outdoor, splashproof, etc uses.

No connection, we just use the stuff.

cheers,

David Bianciardi
tech@idrc.com

212.353.9087
212.353.3947 fax
______________________________________________
IDRC || 415 Lafayette St || NYC, NY 10003-7000

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 31 Jul 1998 11:24:00 -0700
From:    Ken Kinard 
Subject: problem with detonate object

I have been having problems loading tutorial 44 (detonate) and other
patches that use the detonate object with Max 3.5.8 and 3.5.9 on a
PowerMac G3 minitower (OS 8.1, no other extensions running).  Sometimes
it loads fine. Other times, I get one or more of the following error
messages:

   error: #x: no such object
   check failed: typedmess: color: corrupt object

which repeat infinitely down the Max window, and/or a dialog box that
says:

   Not enough memory to open detonate

with an OK button. In any case, restarting is the only choice.
Increasing the memory allocation to Max has no effect. Moving the
tutorial 44 patch out of the tutorials folder makes crashing more
likely.

Othertimes I get a stream of messages in the Max window that all say

   warning: couldn't grow binbuf to n

where n is a number like 8 or 16 or 12 or 24.

Right now, the only workaround that is consistently functioning is to
open tutorial 44 first, then close it, and then open my patch that
contains the detonate object. Strange to me.

Does anyone else have this problem? Any solution?

-K

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 31 Jul 1998 10:59:48 -0700
From:    David Zicarelli 
Subject: starting audio from a loadbang

A number of people have wondered why it doesn't work to
turn the audio on in MSP by using a loadbang. The problem
is that the MSP signal compiler works by looking through
a list of open patcher windows, and, at the time a loadbang
is performed, a patcher window isn't yet open, so no signal
objects are found to put into a DSP chain and the audio isn't
turned on.

The workaround would be to add a delay of a second or two
between the loadbang and the dac~ or adc~ receiving the
message to turn on the audio.

The problem may be very difficult to fix, because many patchers
are loaded without having windows opened. The part of the program
that loadbangs patchers doesn't know whether a window will be
opened on that patcher later or not, and patcher files don't
inherently contain information saying whether they have an
open window or not. That's determined by context. If you choose
Open... from the file menu to open a patcher, its window will
be opened. If you use the patcher as an abstraction inside
another patcher, or use the shroud message to pcontrol,
it won't have a window.

David Z.

------------------------------

End of MAX Digest - 30 Jul 1998 to 31 Jul 1998 - Special issue
**************************************************************