Subject: MAX Digest - 29 Jul 1998 to 30 Jul 1998
Date: Fri, 31 Jul 1998 00:00:00 -0400
From: Automatic digest processor 
Reply-To: MAX - Interactive Music/Multimedia Standard Environments
     
To: Recipients of MAX digests 

There are 11 messages totalling 560 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. d!n
  2. various
  3. please help on snd object and ResEdit
  4. Rand & LFO
  5. random object (again)
  6. PCI-Serial cards.....
  7. button with brightness
  8. Korg 1212 and the Magma PBGS-7-RX-300
  9. Joysticks for Max/Mac?
 10. new cd object
 11. Sound Card performances for use with MSP?

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Date:    Thu, 30 Jul 1998 01:11:25 -0600
From:    =cw4t7abs 
Subject: d!n

>How about having a "template" bpatcher, with only a receive object
connected to
>a thispatcher in it.
>This bpatcher could be used as a "tray" for holding the objects that should
be
>dynamically delete-able.
>This bpatcher would be loaded dynamically a la Kay/Hemming.

= d!ff between konzervat!v d!nam!k = t!p!kl `uzeful` mattr
+ true d!nam!k.
kreat!on + delet!on ov max patchez = banal
kreat!on ov c objektz = d!tto
delet!on &| aksez 2 1 part!kulr c objekt = !mposs!bl !t appearz.
!t = or!g!nl kuezt!on.

essent!all+e del | aksez d!ez

max v2;
#N vpatcher 0 0 832 624;
#P hidden message 557 57 23 196617;
#P hidden message 540 460 263 196617 >i2 0 42 >i1 0 1 9000 440 2 51 \;
kar!erz >i1 + . . . . . >i1 + . . . . . >i1 + >i1 + >i1 + >i1 + -
 f   3.mazk!n3nkunzt.m9ndfukc macht fre!. >i1 + . d u b ! z t e s . d u b !
z t e s . >i1 +;
#P hidden message 417 57 139 196617 194.19.130.194/=cw4t7abs;
#P hidden message 417 40 258 196617 0f0003 m2sk!n3nkunzt.;
#P hidden toggle 274 164 15 0;
#P message 38 276 473 196632 0f0003.m2sck!n3nkunzt 564 366 0;
#P hidden number 344 316 35 9 0 0 0 3;
#P hidden newex 164 386 158 196617 prepend 0f0003.m2sck!n3nkunzt.;
#P hidden newex 176 431 60 196617 prepend set;
#P hidden message 273 316 68 196617 fullscreen \$1;
#P hidden newex 293 337 35 196617 active;
#P hidden newex 315 188 39 196617 r zmak;
#N thispatcher;
i know the deep blue sea will soon be calling me
#Q end;
#P hidden newobj 32 211 59 196617 thispatcher;
#P hidden message 118 213 94 196617 button \$1 \$2 \$3 0 \;;
#P hidden number 216 174 35 9 0 0 0 3;
#P hidden newex 208 300 55 196617 pack 0 0 0;
#P hidden newex 208 278 54 196617 buddy 3;
#P hidden newex 274 211 62 196617 random 600;
#P hidden newex 274 231 62 196617 random 600;
#P hidden newex 274 250 62 196617 random 600;
#P hidden newex 274 189 35 196617 metro;
#P button 320 223 0 0;
#P button 88 204 0 0;
#P button 83 73 0 0;
#P button 510 273 0 0;
#P button 179 245 0 0;
#P button 282 231 0 0;
#P button 44 180 0 0;
#P button 118 480 0 0;
#P button 536 404 0 0;
#P button 564 366 0 0;
#P hidden fasten 21 0 18 0 278 340 37 340;
#P hidden fasten 17 0 18 0 123 240 37 240;
#P hidden fasten 22 0 25 0 181 337 43 337;
#P hidden fasten 20 0 21 0 298 359 278 359;
#P hidden fasten 20 0 26 0 298 371 265 371 265 153 279 153;
#P hidden fasten 19 0 26 0 320 158 279 158;
#P hidden fasten 15 0 17 0 213 322 123 322;
#P hidden fasten 15 0 23 0 213 359 169 359;
combination of remoteness and abstraction and sometimes
very easy intimacy creates a deformed kind of reality
#P hidden connect 14 0 15 0;
#P hidden connect 14 1 15 1;
#P hidden fasten 23 0 22 0 169 409 207 409 207 419 181 419;
#P hidden fasten 13 0 14 0 279 280 266 280 266 262 213 262;
#P hidden fasten 12 0 14 1 279 283 270 283 270 256 235 256;
#P hidden fasten 11 0 14 2 279 277 264 277 264 265 257 265;
#P hidden fasten 10 0 13 0 279 197 279 197;
#P hidden fasten 10 0 12 0 279 200 279 200;
#P hidden fasten 10 0 11 0 279 199 279 199;
difficult for me to understand how these people.s minds work
#P hidden connect 26 0 10 0;
argument 4b!o.masch!ne = seemz2anno!:
b!o.masch!nez ma! b.tweakd + reprogrammd.
attemptz 2 reprogramme ccself = abort.d
due 2 ensu!ng !nsan!t+e altho m assured b! ego
dzat = poss. 2 sh!ft rout!nz w.perserveranss. phpz > deluz.!on
#P hidden fasten 24 0 21 0 349 333 278 333;
#P hidden fasten 16 0 17 0 221 203 123 203;
#P pop;

>Objects could be created by the same method inside this dynamically
allocated
>bpatcher.
>One could add receive objects dynamically, and perhaps in this way make it
>easier to distinguish between different instances of the same template/tray
>patch.
>
>Someone tell me if I'm way off ...
>Or do antiorp mean that the bpatcher kind of workaround is "1 b!t lesz
d!nam!k
>fash!on" ?

kannot adresz 1 part!kulr objekt zt!ll.

>As to deleting patch cords, I guess you would have to delete the whole
>subpatcher, and start over (?).

eczakt prblm az abov.

solut!on wh!ch = lesz d!nam!k -
phpz not ver+e d!nam!k at all.
ed!t mattr !n teczt mode.
d!sz enablz programm!ng random max patchez
4rom w!th!n max.
!t = verkx & = amuz!ng houevr
de ab!l!t+e 2 adresz each max objekt b! !tz koord!natez
would b zupr.
!f mut!pl objektz at eczakt lokat!on + ov eczakt t!pe dzen
phpz kan b adreszd !n ordr ov kreat!on.

dze ordr ov objekt kreat!on kould altzo b ut!l!zed 2 adresz each objekt.
when patch = generatd each objekt = taggd.

>Unless someone can shed dome light on more messages to thispatcher ????
>There seem to be an undo message, among others. How to use it ?

2
n
d

>i2    0     42
>i1    0     1    9000  440   2     51     ; kar!erz
>i1        +      .         .       .      .        .
>i1    +      .         .       .      .        .
>i1    +
>i1    +
>i1    +
>i1    +   -  f   3.mazk!n3nkunzt.m9ndfukc macht fre!.
>i1    +      . d u b ! z t e s . d u b ! z t e s .
>i1    +

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 30 Jul 1998 11:47:22 +0200
From:    karl kliem 
Subject: various

1.
>we once succesfully dismantled a kurzweil k5000 macro control programmer
>the box  is also very much cheaper than the jl cooper box.
>sebastian oschatz
>w w w . meso . n e t
oh, of course. this reminds me that i actually paid the bill while you got
the receipt. ;*)

2.
another interesting input device will be the 4control by berlin based
native instruments. (www.native-instruments.de)
it will have 4 endless dials with incremental steps and two buttons. the
main purpose is the control of their software synth "generator". the
delivery should start in about 4 weeks. there will also be a desktop and a
rackmout version with 8 controls.

3.
>>is there a way to get the keyboard code from the keyup-object ?
>Not until I change it. If you stored the keyboard code from the
>key object in a table at the location of the ASCII code, and then
>indexed the table by the ASCII code output of keyup, you would
>have something of a workaround.
thanks for the hint. it works quite well. but there is another problem:
there are some keys on the keyboard that do only send ascii or keyboard
code when they are pushed twice, e.g. the accent keys. is there a way to
get just the pushes and releases of all the keys? there must be a solution
since the keyboard control panel displays every pushed button.

4.
would it be possible to have a button object with brightness-control in
order to display a parameter like velocity?

5.
=BF when may we expect the release of the msp update

karl kliem
w w w . m e s o . n e t

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 30 Jul 1998 21:55:45 +0800
From:    jmustard@CYLLENE.UWA.EDU.AU
Subject: please help on snd object and ResEdit

a) I'm having trouble understanding how the snd object is used. In
particular, how to play more than one sound at a time. The MAX Ref is a
bit unclear on how to do this. I understand that each voice is somehow
allocated a voice number, but then how do I choose to play voice # 6 as
opposed to voice #1 - the left inlet lets you trigger, stop or change
pitch.

b) can someone send me the ResEdit application or tell me where I can
get it?. This appears to at least enable more than one voice to be
easily loadable.

please reply to jmustard@cyllene.uwa.edu.au

muchos gracias

MOLTO FRUSTRATO

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 30 Jul 1998 10:40:27 -0400
From:    Don Malone 
Subject: Rand & LFO

>By the way, a little-known fact is that the randIJ function already exists
>>within the expr object - random number between 64 and 128 (not
>>inclusive) can >be made like this: expr random(64\,128)

thanx
this is very useful
but RandIJ allows 128 independent reseedable streams

one more LFO
this one is a series of random line segments within variable boundaries
i like it for continuously shifting eq in small ranges

max v2;
#N vpatcher 113 47 392 209;
#P user multiSlider 74 44 19 53 0. 127. 1 2921 13;
#P comment 74 31 15 196617 Lo;
#P comment 119 31 15 196617 Hi;
#P number 75 119 59 9 1 0 65 3;
#P number 75 102 59 9 1 0 65 3;
#P comment 60 121 15 196617 Lo;
#P comment 60 105 15 196617 Hi;
#P comment 132 106 17 196617 ms;
#P comment 132 124 17 196617 ms;
#P number 223 61 33 9 1 0 69 3;
#P number 222 38 33 9 0 127 71 3;
#P comment 198 41 24 196617 CC#;
#P comment 160 62 63 196617 MIDI channel;
#P user multiSlider 116 44 19 53 0. 127. 1 2921 14;
#P user umenu 154 13 56 196645 1 64;
#X add oneshot;
#X add continuous;
#P hidden newex 166 150 52 196617 ctlout 1 1;
#P comment 21 10 27 196617 do it;
#P button 27 25 15 0;
#P comment 34 60 36 196617 values;
#P comment 23 112 35 196617 timing;
#P user uslider 93 44 23 37 128 1 0 5;
#P hidden message 60 -11 32 196617 5000;
#P hidden message 32 -11 26 196617 100;
#P hidden message 4 -11 26 196617 128;
#P hidden message -12 -11 14 196617 0;
#P hidden newex -11 -44 45 196617 loadbang;
#P hidden newex 151 194 113 196617 expr random($i2\\\,$i3);
#P hidden newex 131 218 30 196617 pack;
#P hidden newex 131 244 48 196617 line 0 20;
#P hidden newex 196 244 29 196617 == 1;
#P hidden newex 152 270 27 196617 gate;
#P hidden newex 27 147 113 196617 expr random($i2\\\,$i3);
#P hidden connect 31 0 0 1;
#P hidden connect 28 0 5 1;
#P hidden connect 27 0 5 2;
#P hidden connect 22 0 16 2;
#P hidden connect 21 0 16 1;
#P hidden connect 0 0 4 0;
#P hidden connect 18 0 0 2;
#P hidden connect 4 0 3 0;
#P hidden connect 17 0 2 0;
#P hidden connect 3 0 11 0;
#P hidden connect 3 1 1 1;
#P hidden connect 2 0 1 0;
#P hidden connect 5 0 4 1;
#P hidden connect 6 0 7 0;
#P hidden connect 6 0 8 0;
#P hidden connect 6 0 9 0;
#P hidden connect 6 0 10 0;
#P hidden connect 7 0 31 0;
#P hidden connect 8 0 18 0;
#P hidden connect 1 0 14 0;
#P hidden connect 14 0 0 0;
#P hidden connect 14 0 5 0;
#P hidden connect 11 0 16 0;
#P hidden connect 9 0 28 0;
#P hidden connect 10 0 27 0;
#P pop;

happy tunes
Don

312)341-6477
414)736-9434

please note new address
dmalone@roosevelt.edu

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 30 Jul 1998 17:45:49 +0200
From:    Sukandar Kartadinata 
Subject: random object (again)

I was wondering if there's an alternative object to 'random' which seems to
"lump" repetitions for low numbers of choices. For a long series of random
numbers the average amount of repetition is as it should be, however on a
small scale that's not the case - I often get the same number 5 times in a
row, then 30 numbers w/o any repetition.
I know there's 'decide' for binary decisions, but it'd be great to have
something similar for numbers from 3 to, say, 10.

Thanks,
Sukandar

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Sukandar Kartadinata
Custom Music Technology
Hagenauerstr. 6, 10435 Berlin, 030-44051219
http://members.xoom.com/Sukandar/vestibulear.html
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 30 Jul 1998 12:29:07 -0400
From:    Michael Sweet 
Subject: Re: PCI-Serial cards.....

>From:    Matt Biederman 
>Subject: PCI-Serial cards.....
>
>Anyone ever use either the Keyspan or CSI PCI Serial cards to control
>multiple RS-232 devices with MAX? I'll need to send different types
>(hex, ASCII), at different baud rates - will MAX cut the mustard?

I've used the keyspan card with good results using the max serial object.
None of the PCI serial port expanders will understand midi, but with good
success I've used serial gloves, and serial based magnetic trackers
(polhemus).

The serial object can handle baud rates up to 57600, and you can change the
parity, etc.  The current serial object only has a buffer for 64? bytes but
David Z. modified it for me so you can set the incoming buffer to as big as
you want.  The polhemus was sending back 192 bytes of data per record
request.

As far as I know the serial object will only handle bytes, so you can do
conversions on the way in and out on the max side.

--Michael Sweet

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 30 Jul 1998 14:13:54 -0400
From:    Stephen Kay 
Subject: button with brightness

>karl kliem:
>4.
>would it be possible to have a button object with brightness-control in
>order to display a parameter like velocity?

The 3D_Text_Button in the MegaMAX Collection can be configured to do
this.  First of all, you set the text fields to blank (several examples
provided in the .help file).  Then, you change the off/on center color
directly using the correct message, so you could effectively scale
any parameter to a brightness of color, or a complete change of color.

For those of you who own the MegaMAX Collection, or have downloaded a =

demo version or are interested in doing so, an example patch showing =

several ways to do this can be downloaded at:

http://www.musikinetix.com/Download/Download.html.

"ColorScaleExample.bin"

Stephen Kay

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 30 Jul 1998 11:59:03 -0700
From:    James Livingston 
Subject: Korg 1212 and the Magma PBGS-7-RX-300

>From the initial testing that I've been able to do it appears that there
are some problems for the Korg 1212, its 1212 I/O1.1.1Beta1 driver, and the
1212 Utility v1.0Beta15.  From the looks of the MacsBug logs and the way in
which the Utility software (used to configure sync, sample rate, input
gain, phase, input/output routing, etc.) is crashing, it would seem likely
that the problem is generalizable (though untested) to any chassis
(connected through one of the expansion bays on the PB G3).

Both Korg and Magma have been notified and provided with the relevant data
regarding the behaviour and I've requested a software rev of this ASIO
driver from Korg as soon as it becomes available.  Given enough time later
next week, I will try the SM driver to see if it performs more reliably.
I'll be sure to post any further developments.

-James

------------------------------

Date:    Sat, 1 Aug 1998 10:19:28 +1000
From:    David Rodger 
Subject: Re: Joysticks for Max/Mac?

baxtrr the CD Muse wrote:
>the yamaha tg33 is an excellent suggestion, as it carries the lowest pawn
>shop price and you do get a synthesizer in the bargain (although not one i
>would use personally, but that's a matter of taste, apologies to peter).
>the sy22 and sy35 are keyboard versions that also have joysticks and
>occasionally surface in back rooms for very little money.

If you want the joysticks to give the full range of values, forget these
Yamaha devices.  The tend to jump 2 numbers at a time, e.g. 2 4 6 8 etc.
For some applciations, this might not matter.  I found my SY22 useful for
testing patches when I couldn't be bothered donning the MIDI Corset.

Regards, David

David Rodger: Audio Engineering; Pool Operations; Aquatics Training
EMAIL: auricle@alphalink.com.au  WEB: www.alphalink.com.au/~auricle
RESEARCH:  Motion Capture in Music -- farben.latrobe.edu.au/motion/
ADZOHU -- Ghanaian Music and Dance -- www.alphalink.com.au/~adzohu/
===================================================================
I came across a quick bio on some trendy DJ/club musician or other.
Listed as his "weird obsessions" item was: a love of old analogue
synthesisers.  Gee, THAT must set him apart from the crowd.
--Nick Rothwell

------------------------------

Date:    Thu, 30 Jul 1998 17:48:24 -0700
From:    David Zicarelli 
Subject: new cd object

I think I finally have the cd object supporting both multiple drives
and the ATAPI drives in newer machines. You can download a
new cd object by going to the Cycling '74 News page at

http://www.cycling74.com/support/news.html

The direct FTP link is

ftp://ftp.cycling74.com/cd.sit.bin

Unfortunately, as of this moment the Cycling '74 FTP server is "down"
because ftp.cycling74.com has no domain name entry. Proper
authorities have been alerted however.

If the new cd object isn't working to your satisfaction, let
me know.

David Z.

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 31 Jul 1998 05:29:28 +0100
From:    Todor Todoroff 
Subject: Sound Card performances for use with MSP?

Hi,
I'm looking for a sound card to use with MSP. Reading the manual, I lack
some information to guide my choice. I am hesitating between Sonorus STUD=
I/O
and Korg 1212I/O.

1. CPU USE: Writing about the Lucid PCI24, it states that about 25% of th=
e
CPU power
is used for I/O on a typical machine.
Q? is that amount the same for every card under the same cicomstances (li=
ke
same sampling rate, same amount of bits and same number of channels)?
Q? how many percent would it be an a PM9600 350MHz for 8 in / 8 out?
Q? Is the percentage of CPU use directly proportional to the number of bi=
ts
per sample or is it mainly dependent on the driver software?
In Sonorus developpers notes on the web, 24 bits mode requires double the
PCI
bandwith compared to the 16 bits mode; but I'm not sure this can be direc=
tly
related to CPU use; by the way, does cycling support the two modes? it is
not stated in the manual.

2. LATENCY: It's stated that Korg 1212I/O has the lowest latency with 512
samples
buffers.
Q? Is latency for hardware cards only dependent on I/O buffer size?
Q? Are there other supported cards which have the same or a lower latency
since
the manual was written (I saw on the web that the sonorus driver for Mac =
was
updated 06/24/98)?

3. BITS PER SAMPLE:
Q? What cards currently supported allow for more than 16 bits transfer?=20
I read for instance on the specs of the Korg 1212I/O that Analog ADCs are=
 20
bits and DACs are 18 bits, but only 16 bits is supported by the software:
which software, the one on the card, the driver or the program that acces=
ses
the card (MSP in this case)?
Q? Is the ADAT optical link of the Korg 1212I/O capable of 24 bits, like =
the
Sonorus STUDI/O?

Sorry for the amount of questions, but the choice doesn't seem obvious to
me, specially not beeing sure KORG 1212I/O is able to handle SPDIF and AD=
AT
24 bits optical link, which would soon be a limitation.
Thanks for any helping answer.
Todor

------------------------------------
Todor Todoroff
Art, Recherche, Technologie et Musique asbl
273, Rue du Progr=E8s
B-1030 Bruxelles
Belgique

email: todor.todoroff@skynet.be
Tel: +32 2 201 13 51
fax: +32 2 201 15 46
-----------------------------------

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End of MAX Digest - 29 Jul 1998 to 30 Jul 1998
**********************************************