Subject: MAX Digest - 26 Jul 1998 to 27 Jul 1998
Date: Tue, 28 Jul 1998 00:00:00 -0400
From: Automatic digest processor 
Reply-To: MAX - Interactive Music/Multimedia Standard Environments
     
To: Recipients of MAX digests 

There are 12 messages totalling 463 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. MAX interface term in french/lcd for?
  2. Joysticks for Max/Mac? (4)
  3. joystick (2)
  4. Subject: MAX interface term in french/lcd for?
  5. Dynamic allocation again
  6. MAX Digest - 25 Jul 1998 to 26 Jul 1998
  7. MAX/MSP set to 2040
  8. Thanks re. The EXACT Timing/Order in which messages pass through MAX

Email to MAX should now be sent to MAX@lists.mcgill.ca
LISTSERV commands should be sent to listserv@lists.mcgill.ca
Information is available on the WEB at http://www.mcgill.ca/cc/listserv

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 26 Jul 1998 21:36:29 -0700
From:    David Zicarelli 
Subject: Re: MAX interface term in french/lcd for?

I have a book called "Dictionnaire de l'anglais de l'informatique"
that might be helpful for such a project. It's a 900+ page
paperback, published by Presses Pocket. Occasionally makes doing tech
support in French easier.

David Z.

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 27 Jul 1998 00:41:55 -0400
From:    Burton Alexandre 
Subject: Re: Joysticks for Max/Mac?

> From:    Stephen Kay 
> Subject: Joysticks for Max/Mac?
>
> I suddenly have a need to interface some sort of joystick =
> game controller to Max.  In the past I have not paid much
> attention to talk of joysticks; I filed some info but it
> doesn't seem to tell me much.  Can anyone provide some
> info/a summary of any joystick-like input devices that
> work with the Mac/Max (hopefully without a lot of mechanical/
> electronic modifications?)
>
> Not having any experience with game controllers, if you
> bought something like the Microsoft 3D SideWinder Joystick,
> does it plug into the ADB port, or into a serial port?  Is
> there anyway to access the information?

 PC joysticks such as the SideWinder plug into a so-called game port, a
DB-15 found on most soundblaster cards, and use a number of protocools.
Mac joystick obviously plug into ports that come with Macs (serial or
generally ADB) but are more complex than mice and also use different
protocols. Apple's solution is "sprockets", sort of OS-level drivers that
interface between game controllers and applications. I guess someone could
write a sprocket max object and access the world of mac joystick through
there (but i haven't heard of anyone doing that).

 There is a (hardware) alternative which is called the Unwinder that does
joystick-to-MIDI conversion. You plug an SideWinder in it and it gives you
controller data for all the axis on a midi cable (SideWinder have 4
continous controls + 8 buttons).  Right now the device is targeted at SGI
workstations and does all sort of serial conversions, but i understand TPG
(the compnay that makes the product) is working on a cheaper version.

 http://this.is/tpg for more info.

 This device is cool because it turns your joystick into a standard MIDI
controller, and it enables you to use the cheap but very nice SideWinder
instead of pricier and less versatile mac joysticks (although i'm not
compeltely up to date with mac controllers).

 hope this helps,

                                                Alex Burton.

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 26 Jul 1998 22:00:22 -0700
From:    Peter Nyboer 
Subject: joystick

>I suddenly have a need to interface some sort of joystick =
>game controller to Max.

Does it have to be a game controller?  The Yamaha TG33 synth has a joystick
MIDI controller on it.  Obviously, picking one of these up (they were made
in the late 80's) is a somewhat expensive route to get a joystick, but you
get a pretty useful synth with it, and no hacking necessary!

Peter Nyboer
pnyboer@loop.com

http://www.loop.com/~pnyboer/
--home of Slambassador multimedia gallery--

http://www.loop.com/~pnyboer/product
--product prototype! new material!--

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 27 Jul 1998 01:16:09 -0400
From:    Stephen Kay 
Subject: joystick

Peter Nyboer:
>Does it have to be a game controller?  The Yamaha TG33 synth has a
joystick
>MIDI controller on it.  Obviously, picking one of these up (they were ma=
de
>in the late 80's) is a somewhat expensive route to get a joystick, but y=
ou
>get a pretty useful synth with it, and no hacking necessary!

Apparently, yes, it must be a game controller.

I have several Korg keyboards (surprise, to those who know my past).  The=
y
all come outfitted with joysticks.  The difference between these as
implemented on a keyboard and as implemented for a game controller is
that the keyboard units "snap back" to a center position when released.
They also have no readily available button(s) to be depressed while
being activated.

Furthermore, after spending the better part of a day attempting to create=

some hysteresis or other such action to negate the "return to center"
effect (undoable in my opinion), I need a game controller.

Stephen Kay

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 27 Jul 1998 07:13:56 -0400
From:    Ken Mistove 
Subject: Re: Joysticks for Max/Mac?

Stephen,

>I suddenly have a need to interface some sort of joystick
>game controller to Max.

Any ADB Mac joystick which can be set to emulate a mouse, can be used to
generate data in Max. The Mousestate object would allow for collecting data
in 2 dimensions (X,Y).

I have a CH Products Jetstick (http://www.chproducts.com/macgear4b.html)
which comes with a control panel for setting the stick up. I can set the
stick up in relative or absolute mode as well as map it's two button to any
Mac key. All of these settings can be saved for specific programs. It's not
a global setting (though that can be done as well). The Jetstick runs
around $50 and plugs into the ADB port.

I checked out the MS Sidewinder you mentioned on MS's web site
(http://www.microsoft.com/products/prodref/318_ov.htm). The specs say it's
a digital stick. It uses opto technology instead of potentiometers (as in
the Jetstick). The specs also mention a switch on the bottom of the stick
to switch it into mouse mode. No mention of any software though. It's also
ADB.

Ken

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 27 Jul 1998 14:27:06 +0100
From:    Todor Todoroff 
Subject: Subject: MAX interface term in french/lcd for?

Je suis tout a fait d'accord avec Jean Favory. Je me rappelle du mode
d'emploi d'un echantillonneur Roland ou j'ai mis pas mal de temps =E0
comprendre qu'une parcelle signifiat un patch! A force de vouloir traduire =
=E0
tout prix, on se retrouve dans la situation ou, selon une recommandation
francaise officielle, un fade out devient un evanouissement!
J'ai =E9galement r=E9cemment lu dans un article une "interface qui
supprimait
les probl=E8mes d'errance (!)" que je pense devoir traduire par jitter.
Que l'on cesse d'etre puriste au detriment de la comprehension. Un simple
lexique (l'ACME en propose un tres complet) pourra efficacement guider les
neophytes et leur eviter bien des affres lorsqu'ils ouvriront un manuel en
anglais. Il semble que ce soit un probleme tres franco-francais qui trouve
son origine dans les positions defensives de l'academie. Un nombre
impressionnant de mots francais sont des emprunts passes a d'autres langues=
.
De nombreux mots anglais sont empruntes au francais. A qui cela pose-t-il
probleme?
Todor

------------------------------------
Todor Todoroff
Art, Recherche, Technologie et Musique asbl
273, Rue du Progr=E8s
B-1030 Bruxelles
Belgique

email: todor.todoroff@skynet.be
Tel: +32 2 201 13 51
fax: +32 2 201 15 46
-----------------------------------

>Subject: MAX interface term in french/lcd for?
>
>> I want to make a french WEB sit dedicated to MAX. I try to traduct
>> some interface terms in french, but it is not easy.
>> Here is the terms:
>
>Voici des propositions, fort peu satisfaisantes (j'ai supprimer les
>accents car ils ne sont pas pris en compte par la liste et se
>transforment en d'autres caracteres) :
>
>patcher =3D fenetre de raccordement
>toggle =3D bascule
>inlet =3D entree
>outlet =3D sortie
>preset =3D configuration
>script-driven Envelope =3D script de controle d'enveloppe
>graphic switch =3D commutateur graphique
>graphic gate =3D porte graphique
>increment/decrement =3D increment/decrement
>LED =3D Diode Electroluminescente (DEL)
>
>> Finally a question, the letter lcd is for ?
>liquid crystal display =3D ecran a cristaux liquides
>
>Ceci dit, il me semble qu'il vaut mieux eviter de traduire les noms des
>objets dans la mesure ou quand on utilise le logiciel l'on est confronte
>aux noms anglais. Cela me rappelle trop les notices et modes d'emplois
>ou tous les termes sont traduits (souvent mal car les equivalences sont
>parfois difficiles): on finit par ne plus rien comprendre.
>
>--
>Jean Favory
>Laboratoire Musique et Informatique de Marseille (MIM)
>Cite de la Musique - BP 8
>13234 Marseille cedex 04 - France
>phone: (33) 04 91 39 28 60 - fax: (33) 04 91 39 28 69
>http://www.cosa-mentale.fr/MIM.html
>

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 27 Jul 1998 15:05:06 +0200
From:    Oeyvind Brandtsegg 
Subject: Dynamic allocation again

The dynamic allocation example was real neat.

You can also do a "dispose" of other types of objects than patchers
(graphical UI's etc), if you embed them in a bpatcher, because the
dispose message to a thispatcher object inside a bpatcher will get rid
of the whole bpatcher object.

Oeyvind Brandtsegg

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 27 Jul 1998 09:05:10 -0400
From:    Chris Murtagh Hrdc-drhc 
Subject: Re: Joysticks for Max/Mac?

From: "Stephen Kay" , on 7/26/98 3:54 PM:
>I suddenly have a need to interface some sort of joystick
>game controller to Max.

 If this is a lasting and good $$ gig, and you like to fidget with
electronic gear, I would strongly suggest getting an iCube. They aren't
cheap, but they work really well, and with bare bones electronic knowledge,
you can turn almost anything into a controller. I've used everything from
photocells (at $0.25 a piece) to XY joysticks and piles of other things in
between (even a thermostat). So, if you can get the gig to pay for it, I
would say go for it. You'll never have to worry about crazy system
sprockets/extensions, nor look for keyboard toasting ADB converters.  Check
out Infusion System's WWW page if you want more info
(www.infusionsystems.com??).  Actually, seeing as they are in Canada, and
the CDN$ is worth about a quarter these days... You might get an iCube for
pretty cheap.

BTW, while I'm on this topic, does anybody know where I can
order/get/buy/find some XY joysticks? I need 16 of them, and I've ripped up
all the old Apple II joysticks I could find. I would really like to get
them all the same, even if it means ordering parts from the TG33 or
something like that.  No electronic shop in dullsville Ottawa seems to know
where I can find any without paying $50 each (ouch!). Even better would be
a place where I could specify what the resistance ranges on the pots were.

Cheers,

Chris

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 27 Jul 1998 17:49:05 +0200
From:    Wolfgang Heiniger 
Subject: Re: MAX Digest - 25 Jul 1998 to 26 Jul 1998

> Date:    Sun, 26 Jul 1998 18:04:11 EDT
> From:    "Britt H. Myers" 
> Subject: max question
> I want the movement of either controller to trigger a calculation.

Using the "trigger" object should do the job :
CTL1 connects to left in of "-"
CTL2 connects to a "trigger" with args: "b i"
The left out ("b" the bang) of the "trigger" connects also to left in of
"-"
the right out ("i" the integer) of the "trigger" connects  to right in of
"-"

so CTL2 will trigger the subtraction with the last value of CTL1 AFTER
updating the "-" object and you will have output even if only CTL2 is
moved.

check also the subjects "order forcing" in the manual and the theme "order
of exec" in that list (quite a common subject)

wolf

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 27 Jul 1998 22:43:15 +0200
From:    Andreas Weixler 
Subject: Re: MAX/MSP set to 2040

Date:    Sun, 26 Jul 1998 14:49:22 +0200
From:    Georg Hajdu 
Subject: Re: MAX Digest - 22 Jul 1998 to 23 Jul 1998

>I copied my MAX/MSP files to my new G3 Powerbook and everything worked fine
> for a few days until for some reasons the 'dates
>created' (and modified) had been set to 2040 for most of my files.Error
>while verifying your >authorization. The serial  number you specified
>has already expired. You need a new serial number in order to use this
>software. Result code: 32.

Did You set Your system clock back to todays Year ?

I had this date change aswell, when I reinstalled my harddisk from backup
(save early save often, did You ?) everything is fine again.
So the files should have the correct date and Your system too.( msp will
expire after a certain date, right D.?) I am not shure what causes the
change of dates, may be the logic system in Your Mac or a weak battery
inside.
Let us know how You continue.

best wishes

-------------------------------------------------------------------
Andreas Weixler, composer, lecturer
-------------------------------------------------------------------
SAMT Studio for Advanced Music and Media Technology
Bruckner-Conservatory Linz/ Austria
http://www.samt.ac.at
------------------------------------------------------------------
directors board of GEM
Society of Electroacoustic Music in Austria
http://www.mica.at/mica/d_gem.htm
------------------------------------------------------------------
T/F: ++43 316 39 11 68
------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 27 Jul 1998 18:07:02 -0400
From:    David Durlach 
Subject: Thanks re. The EXACT Timing/Order in which messages pass through
MAX

To the *many* people who provided useful information regarding the
timing and ordering of events in MAX, as well as possible implementation
schemes for our application, thanks.

Your information was most helpful!

David Durlach  TechnoFrolics :-)

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 27 Jul 1998 20:30:19 -0400
From:    Nicholas Longo <71477.2332@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject: Re: Joysticks for Max/Mac?

>I there a way to use this [ADB] object to input position information from

>>a simple potentiometer(s) through an ADB port?  If not, does anyone know
>>of an object that can do this?
>
>I doubt that it is possible to create such an object. An ADB port is a
>connection to a serial, digital bus, with no analog inputs. A device needs
>some amount of "intelligence" before it can be connected to the ADB. In
>other words, there's nothing there that a potentiometer could be plugged
>into.

You could wire the pot & a .5 capacitor to the rc timing port of a 555
timer
(the "intelligence" in this case) to put out a stream of pulses. This would
give you an eternally +x-moving mouse/cursor with different speeds
depending
on the frequency, which is set by the pot. If your pot was an
auto-centering
joystick (which has two pots) the "speed" and "direction" would be
controlled
by the extent and direction of the deflection of the joystick & the adb
lines
you wire into. Open up your mouse and look at the pulses the come from the
opto interrupters. For really fine movements, you could even use 4 switches
(or a switch) with 1k series resistors wired to the +5v adb line.

---------------------------------------------------------------------
I dont know whether this would work. It depends on whether there is a
capacitor on the sound input line (decoupling any dc voltages)
but you could wire a potentiometer across the sound input and measure an
input voltage using a 1.5 v battery (with a series resistor to limit the
current) across the pot.

------------------------------

End of MAX Digest - 26 Jul 1998 to 27 Jul 1998
**********************************************