Subject: MAX Digest - 21 Jul 1998 to 22 Jul 1998
Date: Thu, 23 Jul 1998 00:00:00 -0400
From: Automatic digest processor 
Reply-To: MAX - Interactive Music/Multimedia Standard Environments
     
To: Recipients of MAX digests 

There are 22 messages totalling 626 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Big Eye
  2. occillation of data
  3. kropotk!n             -            -bakun!n godw!n -   \           [
     ]-[osc freel+e]-_max  st!rner -  /      \                    /
emma
     goldman      proudhon
  4. 9x6986
  5. The EXACT Timing/Order in which messages pass through MAX (2)
  6. MAX Digest - 20 Jul 1998 to 21 Jul 1998
  7. FAT Rand
  8. sfplay/midi/overdrive problems
  9. The EXACT Timing/Order in which messages pass through MAX.
 10. MSP execution, order of
 11. MAX Digest - 20 Jul 1998
 12. New listserv (2)
 13. motion/position sensor input (2)
 14. latency (2)
 15. Nick Longo was re-posted (2)
 16. Dual MAX inquires:
 17. 1. keyup, 2.vst~

McGill is running a new version of LISTSERV (1.8c on Windows NT).
Information is available on the WEB at http://www.mcgill.ca/cc/listserv

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 21 Jul 1998 23:33:55 -0600
From:    =cw4t7abs 
Subject: Big Eye

>From:    David Rodger 
>Subject: Re: motion/position sensor: Big Eye
>The last version of BigEye I saw
>supported Midi Manager, not OMS.  This might have changed, but, as it was,
>interfacing with MAX was difficult unless you wree running OMS 1.2.3 or
>lower.
>OTOH, in those days, BigEye used every ounce of processor time one had, so
>running MAX on another machine was usually necessary.  These days, with
>spiffy G3s and the like, the two might co-exist.

!nfo abov = dated

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 21 Jul 1998 23:42:01 -0600
From:    =cw4t7abs 
Subject: occillation of data

>Subject: Re: occillation of controller data

autokount = bzump
expr      = d!tto

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 22 Jul 1998 00:58:27 -0600
From:    =cw4t7abs 
Subject: kropotk!n             -            -bakun!n godw!n -   \
[
         ]-[osc freel+e]-_max  st!rner -  /      \                    /
         emma goldman      proudhon

var!ouz authors :

>On the subject of Nazism, it's worth noting Godwin's Law,

w!ll!am godw!n +?

         kropotk!n
           -            -bakun!n
godw!n -   \           [
        ]-[osc freel+e]-_max
st!rner -  /      \
          /       emma goldman
     proudhon

>Please don't tell anyone: I'm going to kill you.

hTTp://194.19.130.194/=cw4t7abs/0f0003/b1257+12/ikk

>some
>observation about the rapid rate in which one or more parties
>to an online disagreement will resort to using the N-word.

app.ly!ng z!pf.z law 2 dav!d z!karell!z pozt - !t =
apropoz: n-word || iSP || vst~

>On the subject of Nazism

=cw4t7abs = zpeak!ng ov amer!kan!zm [!determ!nd b! c!t!.zen.sh!p]
d.term!nd b! !deolog!. !t = dze !deolog+e ov nick longo + numerouz odrz
wh!ch = 4 dze mozt part !prezent on max-l.

a m3 r! k k a _||- s ug 3r

i2    0     42
i1    0     1    9000  440   2     51     ; kar!erz
i1        +      .         .       .      .        .
i1    +      .         .       .      .        .
i1    +
i1    +
i1    +
i1    +   -  f   3.mazk!n3nkunzt.m9ndfukc macht fre!.
i1    +     u ma! beg!n ur d33p. breath!ng nou ]x2[
i1    +

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 22 Jul 1998 01:14:21 -0600
From:    =cw4t7abs 
Subject: 9x6986

hTTp://194.19.130.194/=cw4t7abs/0f0003/ztpd/04++.html

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 22 Jul 1998 09:16:03 +0100
From:    Trond & Laila Linde Lossius 
Subject: Re: The EXACT Timing/Order in which messages pass through MAX

On Tue, 21 Jul 1998 David Durlach wrote:

>We are using MAX for purposes where it is critical that we know
>*exactly* how individual pieces of data are being transmitted throughout
>a patch.

I belive that's common to most of us. Your reference to writings by
Miller Puckette was very interesting. Do you mind giving the URL?

If the output from one object is connected to more than one input of
another object and you experience this kind of errors, you can insert
number boxes (or int or float objects) in between for one or more patch
chords to ensure that the numbers hit the second object in the proper
order. Similar manipulation is possible for lists and messages if
needed(?). I've never had this problem (and hopefully won't).

>"...It is possible, even easy, to make a patch whose result is
>undefined. (If any outlet sends more than one non-delayed message to
>the same object, the order in which the messages arrive is undefined
>in general; sometimes you can predict the result by looking at the
>spatial layout of the patch, but it should always be regarded as an
>error unless the order the messages are received in doesn't matter.)

BTW: You proberbly already noted that Max won't allow you to connect
parallell patch cords between two objects (from same output to same
input). This would have created ambiguity (although the user proberbly
wouldn't have cared). The way around is to use the kind of tricks
described above.

Trond L.

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 22 Jul 1998 05:16:23 -0700
From:    Jim Wood 
Subject: Re: MAX Digest - 20 Jul 1998 to 21 Jul 1998

Hello there

Is there any object that will give sound Input level
for PPC? So as to detect mic/audio input which could
be used as a trigger
I have seen Takahiro Suzuki's   -- siLevel-- but this
only runs on 68K
Anything like this that could be used with MSP?

bye now
Jim Y-Wood
_________________________________________________________
DO YOU YAHOO!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 22 Jul 1998 15:04:43 +0200
From:    dudas 
Subject: Re: FAT Rand

Jim Wood writes:

>1. Is there a PPC or FAT version of the Rand, RandIJ
>objects available?

yes, I seem to remember recompiling it a year ago, but never put it on the
ftp because it didn't work correctly. I cannot find a copy here at work, so
I must have it only at home.  I will try to locate it, fix it and put it on
the ircam FTP by the end of the week.  No promises, though.  I will write
another mail confirming the object's situation and download location.

-R

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 22 Jul 1998 15:22:44 +0200
From:    Wolfgang Heiniger 
Subject: sfplay/midi/overdrive problems

sfplay seems to have problems with midi and overdrive turned on at the same
time.
Eg in a complex patch (no graphics, lcd etc.) it takes startcommands
(message "1") from the aplha-keyboard but not from a MIDI message
triggering the "1".
Turning Overdrive off solves the problem.
Does anybody know about the relationship between Overdrive and MIDI and MSP
?

tia

wolf

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 22 Jul 1998 10:42:08 -0400
From:    Eric Singer 
Subject: Re: The EXACT Timing/Order in which messages pass through MAX.

>We are using MAX for purposes where it is critical that we know
>*exactly* how individual pieces of data are being transmitted throughout
>a patch.

I hope you're not trying to use Max to build a pacemaker :-)

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 21 Jul 1998 21:54:33 -0700
From:    David Zicarelli 
Subject: Re: MSP execution, order of

Alex Stahl  writes:

>As an example, I am using a count~ object as a master synchronization
>source for a bunch of buffer manipulations. This includes reading and
>writing to the same location in a buffer "at the same time".  The order in
>which the various index~ and poke~ objects actually execute, makes all the
>difference between dulcet tones and tweeter-melting noise.  I'm not telling
>which is my preferred musical behavior, but I do admit that I like to be
>consistent.

My suggestion would be to introduce a one-sample delay where
you want something to be later than something else. This is
easy with the forthcoming MSP delay~ object, and somewhat
awkward with the current comb~ object. Using tapin~ and
tapout~ for this purpose may backfire as the minimum delay
when you use them is the current signal vector size.

I'm guessing that a trigger~ object would probably work with
one sample delays too.

David Z.

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 22 Jul 1998 09:51:37 -0700
From:    Steve Anderson 
Subject: Re: MAX Digest - 20 Jul 1998

 RE>MAX Digest - 20 Jul 1998 to 21 Jul 1998            7/22/98
                                                       9:28 AM

> The EXACT Timing/Order in which messages pass through MAX.

We use SMPTE from the time code generator (Studio 4) for this purpose. The
MIDI transmission time seems to depend not only on the specific patch
response, but to the nature of the data, as well. For instance, a voice
pitch-to-midi converter, with lots of controller info, seems to propagate
slower than a keyboard input on an older machine, at least on our stuff.
So,...it depends.
You know what happened when "exactly" within 33 ms, with the SMPTE code.
sea
Laser Dreams

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 22 Jul 1998 11:24:26 PDT
From:    isabel obieta 
Subject: New listserv

  Hello, My name is Isabel Obieta, i have been in the listserv and i
want to be in the new address listserv.

  My address is :

  Yelherfmiou@hotmail.com

______________________________________________________
Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 22 Jul 1998 20:41:30 +0200
From:    Jean Paul Laurent 
Subject: Re: motion/position sensor input

On Sat, 18 Jul 1998 Mark Gee wrote:

>I'm working on my Master's thesis and was wondering if Max can help me out.
>>From what I've heard, someone out there has used Max to process inputs
from
>motion and/or position sensors.  That's what I'm hoping to accomplish as
>well.  I'm wondering what equipment people have used for tracking a person
>moving through space without having sensors attached to the observed body
and
>pointers on how to use Max in this context.  Thanks.

Mark,

See also:

DIEM (The Danish Institute of Electroacoustic Music)

http://www.daimi.aau.dk/~diem/dance.html

Their system consists of a 14 bending sensors, a small transmitter unit on a
belt and a receiver unit which sends standard MIDI data (one controller
number for each sensor). In addition to this standard package, they will
offer
a few extra accessories, such as special sleeves for mounting the bending
sensors on a dancer's elbows, knees and ankles as well as gloves for use as
finger controllers.

Jean Paul L.

---------------------------
Jean Paul Laurent
B-1490 Court-St-Etienne
Belgium

jean.paul.laurent@skynet.be
---------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 22 Jul 1998 14:44:50 -0400
From:    Chris Murtagh Hrdc-drhc 
Subject: Re: New listserv

From: "isabel obieta" , on 7/22/98 2:24 PM:
>Hello, My name is Isabel Obieta, i have been in the listserv and i
>want to be in the new address listserv.

 I'm not quite sure what this means, but just in case it means what I think
it might....

 For anyone who might have concerns regarding the new listserv address, do
not fear. The only things that have changed are the posting and command
addresses to:

Posting address (the list itself - here)

 max@lists.mcgill.ca

Command address (a.k.a. listserv address)

 listserv@lists.mcgill.ca

 If you were subscribed to the old list address, you are still subscribed
to the new one. The old addresses (which I will not name in order to avoid
confusion) will still work, but not for long, so please change your address
books accordingly (and soon!). Also, if anyone has any web pages with
either of the old addresses in them, can you please update them to reflect
the changes. (David can you please update cycling74's site?) Thanks.

As usual, please send any concerns/questions regarding listserv
subscriptions to me directly and not the list.(Please use
chris@music.mcgill.ca)

Sincerely,

Christopher Murtagh
MAX listserv owner
chris@music.mcgill.ca

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 22 Jul 1998 12:06:45 -0700
From:    Richard Zvonar 
Subject: Re: motion/position sensor input

At 11:41 AM -0700 07/22/98, Jean Paul Laurent wrote:

>
See also:
>
>DIEM (The Danish Institute of Electroacoustic Music)
>
>http://www.daimi.aau.dk/~diem/dance.html
>
>Their system consists of a 14 bending sensors, a small transmitter unit on
a
>belt and a receiver unit which sends standard MIDI data (one controller
>number for each sensor). In addition to this standard package, they will
offer
>a few extra accessories, such as special sleeves for mounting the bending
>sensors on a dancer's elbows, knees and ankles as well as gloves for use as
>finger controllers.

The DIEM Digital Dance System is uncannily similar to Mark Coniglio's
MidiDancer. Mark has been working with his system since the 1980s, when he
was a student at Califorinia Institute of the Arts, and is now based in New
York City where he co-directs the dance theater group Troika Ranch.

http://art.net/Studios/Performance/Dance/Troika_Ranch/mididancer.html

http://art.net/Studios/Performance/Dance/Troika_Ranch/geekpage.html

http://art.net/Studios/Performance/Dance/Troika_Ranch/interactor.html

______________________________________________________________________________
Richard Zvonar, PhD                              zvonar@LCSaudio.com
(818) 788-2202 voice                             zvonar@well.com
(818) 788-2203 fax                               zvonar@alum.mit.edu

                          http://www.well.com/~zvonar

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 22 Jul 1998 16:39:39 -0400
From:    Dan Trueman 
Subject: latency

Hello,

On a G3 266Mhz desktop I am getting audio I/O latencies af about 250ms
when signal and I/O vector sizes are set to 64 and the sampling rate is
44100 (all with SoundManager, OS 8.1). I checked this crudely with a simple
thru patch.

I had heard that latencies with the G3 were significantly lower than this
(and lower than with, say, a 9600)--maybe even as low as 25-30ms using
SoundManager. I'm wondering what kind of latencies other folks are
getting on similar machines and also with various soundcards. Whatever
information any of you can give me regarding this will appreciated.

Thanks,
Dan

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 22 Jul 1998 14:54:48 -0700
From:    Kevin Walker 
Subject: Re: latency

>On a G3 266Mhz desktop I am getting audio I/O latencies af about 250ms
>when signal and I/O vector sizes are set to 64 and the sampling rate is
>44100 (all with SoundManager, OS 8.1). I checked this crudely with a simple
>thru patch.
>
>I had heard that latencies with the G3 were significantly lower than this
>(and lower than with, say, a 9600)--maybe even as low as 25-30ms using
>SoundManager. I'm wondering what kind of latencies other folks are
>getting on similar machines and also with various soundcards. Whatever
>information any of you can give me regarding this will appreciated.

Make sure that virtual memory is turned off -- in my experience, it makes a
big difference for latency.

I have the same set-up as you, and the latency I get between an incoming
midi event and outgoing MSP-generated sound is not detectable by my ears.
This is with virtual memory turned off, of course.  With virtual memory on,
it's big (maybe 250 ms).

------------------------------

Date:    Fri, 24 Jul 1998 08:17:19 +1000
From:    David Rodger 
Subject: Re: Nick Longo was re-posted

Gene wrote:
>I would disagree, however, that
>someone who sends what sounds to me like a pretty explicit threat is
>entitled to privacy. You seem to be claiming that Nick threatening antiorp
>is more benign than antiorp re-posting the threat to the list.

Read it again, Gene.  I made no such claim nor any such implication and I
made no judgment about the content of Nick's post.

>Please don't tell anyone: I'm going to kill you.

I take it you've plenty of frequent flyer points.   ;-)

David Rodger: Audio Engineering; Pool Operations; Aquatics Training
EMAIL: auricle@alphalink.com.au  WEB: www.alphalink.com.au/~auricle
RESEARCH:  Motion Capture in Music -- farben.latrobe.edu.au/motion/
ADZOHU -- Ghanaian Music and Dance -- www.alphalink.com.au/~adzohu/
===================================================================
I came across a quick bio on some trendy DJ/club musician or other.
Listed as his "weird obsessions" item was: a love of old analogue
synthesisers.  Gee, THAT must set him apart from the crowd.
--Nick Rothwell

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 22 Jul 1998 18:12:40 -0400
From:    Stephen Kay 
Subject: Re: The EXACT Timing/Order in which messages pass through MAX

>If the output from one object is connected to more than one input of
>another object and you experience this kind of errors, you can insert
>number boxes (or int or float objects) in between for one or more patch
>chords to ensure that the numbers hit the second object in the proper
>order. Similar manipulation is possible for lists and messages if
>needed(?). =

The trigger object is much better for this sort of thing.  That is
its purpose - to control the order in which messages/bangs are
sent to various destinations.

Stephen Kay
---------------------- The MegaMAX Collection ----------------------
 Over 30 Max objects for the creation of more professional looking, =

         feeling, and functioning patchers and applications.
                     http://www.musikinetix.com
                         sk@musikinetix.com
--------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 22 Jul 1998 19:01:18 +0000
From:    Charles Baker 
Subject: Dual MAX inquires:

Max list,

For now, I have but two questions ;-):

1) is there an equivalent object to P.D.'s 'fiddle' in MSP? (pitch tracking)
              or 'bonk'? (attack detection)

2) Where is the resource editing for newly compiled MAX applications
(to avoid having MAXcall your new app for all Max code...) documented?

Many thanks,
Char lieB

--
*********************************************
Charlie Baker              baker@charlieb.com
"Das Ewig-Weibliche Zieht uns hinan." -Goethe
*********************************************

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 22 Jul 1998 23:28:07 -0400
From:    Nicholas Longo <71477.2332@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject: Re: Nick Longo was re-posted

<
<No, Nick.  Antiorp took your private post to him and re-posted it to
this
<<>list.  This is one of his tricks, which he has done elsewhere (as you
know
<<>very well, Gene).  It is also a very good reason for ignoring Antiorp
and
<<>not engaging with him at all.

<
Subject: Re: 1. keyup, 2.vst~

<