Subject: MAX Digest - 13 Jul 1998 - Special issue
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 20:57:52 -0400
From: Automatic digest processor 
Reply-To: MAX - interactive music/multimedia standard environments
     
To: Recipients of MAX digests 

There are 15 messages totalling 556 lines in this issue.

Topics in this special issue:

  1. Korg 1212 in a MAGMA expander box?
  2. GinHeks v0.01
  3. am I an !ll egal owner am I a l egal owner
  4. Spreadsheet 2000
  5. how to make an amer!kan again +?
  6. This totally useless and destructive thread.
  7. I will stop now...
  8. announcement (2)
  9. David Tudor
 10. Alchemy program
 11. Chauvinism (Was: Personal attacks)
 12. still waiting for a new authorization disk......., j'en ai marre!!!!!!!
 13. imperialistic tendencies
 14. am I a legal owner ?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 13 Jul 1998 01:47:52 -0700
From:    James Livingston 
Subject: Korg 1212 in a MAGMA expander box?

>Date:    Fri, 10 Jul 1998 18:17:10 -0400
>From:    David Crandall 
>Subject: Korg 1212 in a MAGMA expander box?
>
>Apologies for duplicate postss...
>
>I recently asked about soundcards that will work with various programs
>(SC, MSP, etc.).  The Korg 1212 seems to have been the hands-down winner,
>except that Digidesign still doesn't (AFAIK) talk to it (yes, we know it
>darn well should).  I also asked about any of this in connetion with a G3
>Powerbook.  I just saw an old email about the MAGMA PCI expander box for
>the G3 and wonder: is anyone using this combination?

I will be testing the Digi-approved 7-slot rackmount with 300W power supply
and
extra cooling configuration of this PB expansion chassis in the next week
using VisionDSP and  the ASIO driver for the Korg 1212 card.  I will post
the results when I get a chance.

For those Korg card owners who do not also own Digi TDM gear VisionDSP will
include the same feature set (with the exception of Audio<=>MIDI) as SVP
4.1 which will follow the release of Vision DSP by ~1 month.

-ames

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 13 Jul 1998 11:23:20 +0200
From:    Oeyvind Brandtsegg 
Subject: GinHeks v0.01

Perhaps it would be a good idea if someone wrote a max external
utilizing a sk/cw4 fight-mail filter as well as a GinHeks decoding
utility for the aforementioned codeboy postings. So that people in this
small and indeed not very commercially oriented community could get back
to discussing how to get the most out of our great tool Max.

(This file must be decoded with GinHeks 0.01) (?)
s0/*+8a    0059+*/    0+*/8090 0/0+906 00+99+ 0/+980+0 0+90+ ...
`[snip]...
sk = ok
cw4 = ok
sk+cw4 = divide by zero
sk<--->cw4 = continue fight via private email, please (?)
;It was a bit entertaining at first, but all thing must come to an
end...
bzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzztt.

#newpatcher
ok?

Oeyvind Brandtsegg

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 13 Jul 1998 05:12:29 -0600
From:    =cw4t7abs 
Subject: am I an !ll egal owner am I a l egal owner

>From:    David Zicarelli 
>Su ject: unclaimed software
>
>The idea that leaving software on a computer that you sell is
>ill gal is a new one for me. Is the rec rding industry going
>to come after me if I s ll my car and leave a CD in the stereo?

w!ll zom1 kom aftr dze stereo 4 leav!ng dze kar !n dze cd.

jas. de software w!ll.

ur car !z a rekord!ng + !nduztr! unkla!md

that u sell after leav ng.

a n w one for me.
for o e a new me.
for a new o e me.

z
i car
e    l
       l              i

Will y u be happy with collectives.
unregistered human

Wr ng.  Oh, exc se me:  bzzt.

[stolen !ntellektual prop rt+e . nvr leavz dze planet]

|||||||||-000

>Stephen Kay 

>Will you be happy to h lp/support/assist those people who acquire
>your CD from the source you have de med a criminal?

have. do not regret !t.

wond rful perzonz hav purchaszd !t.
+ thoze that were abl hav ordered dze 0+2 vers!on az well.
reazon +? eczakt reazon someone may spend 4months ov salary
2 purchase max.
reazon +? re zon antiorp wr!tez d!sz teczt.
reazon stephen kay defendz !ntellektual propert+e.

>The person has made it clear that s/he does not possess valid
>licenses to Max, in addition to several other (expensive) =
>programs on the second-hand computer s/he bought.

fakt dzat dze pers n haz made !t klear = !mportant.
also made klear was dze fakt dzat 4monthz salar+e = reku!rd
2 purchaze 1 kop+e ov max.

d!sz = suff!c!ent 4 sympathy + understand!ng.
dze west !sn.t everywhere - d!sz person.s !nterest !n max
= suff!c!ent 2 sk a quest!on on dze max l!st
wh!le "mak!ng !t clear dzat !t !s not a `legal` copy of max"

sorr+e !f d!sz ups tz u - w!ll alwa!z support perzonz
!n s!m!lar s!tuat!onz.

!t !znt 2 hurt opkode !t !znt 2 upset u
!t !znt 2 hurt max or an+e mattr.
qu!te dze kontrar+e.

pace w!ll nvr stop an!1 nor w!ll sensor!ng !nfo.
stephen kay kares deepl+e about !ntellectual propert+e.
+ tzo he wr!tez.
zom elsz karez enough about max 2 ask 1 kuest!on.
dze mor akua! td d!sz perzon bkomz w!Th max dze mor
d!sz person w!ll kare about purchas!ng !t.

!t = workx

\\ due 2

humanz do !sukc

>I tried to (quickly and not so unkindly) suggest that this person
>acquire a valid license, and this recent flamefest is the result.

plz eczu e me.

>Intellectual property is an important issue to me, since I have
>chosen to try and make a living based on it recently.
>
>----------------------------

plz e zuse me.

\\  how to make an           again +? (2)

living based on
second-hand computer s/he bought.
(quickly and not so unk!ndly)
excuse me:  b zt.

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 13 Jul 1998 11:21:39 +0100
From:    "Nick Lowe (Tel +44 1784 443210)" 
Subject: Spreadsheet 2000

I've just come home to Max after an enforced absence, in the course of which
I spent time with Casady & Greene's remarkably Max-like object-based
graphical spreadsheet kit Spreadsheet 2000 (formerly Let's KISS). I don't
know if anyone else on the list has had dealings with S2K, which is a treat
to use once you get your head round counterintuitive weirdness like
left-to-right dataflow (woah). But while for the most part there are a lot
of
things S2K could learn from Max, it has one  or two really nifty features
that I found myself twitching for like a phantom limb when I came back to
Max. In particular, S2K has an operation called Crunch, where you select a
group of objects in a patch by dragging and/or shift-clicking, then hit
command-K and the program krunches them all down into a subpatch with the
right number of inlets & outlets, and gives you a dialog box to name it. You
can then double-click on the new object as normal to bring up a new window
with the subpatch contents, and of course use the object in other patches.
(Told you it was Maxlike.) Isn't that cute? It also has a nice Report
feature, which allows you to have any number of selective views of your
patch
(rather than just the one level of invisibility), and you can even move
objects around in different views - dataflow is determined simply by
positioning in the full patch. All they need to do now is to add OMS
support... www.emer.com/s2k or www.casadyg.com for demo (though it seemed to
have been taken off when I last looked).

Nick Lowe
n.lowe@rhbnc.ac.uk

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 13 Jul 1998 09:10:38 -0400
From:    Fleur de Vie Weinstock 
Subject: Re: how to make an amer!kan again +?

> >I'm pointing out that when antiorp's ass is on the line and he wants
> >some $$$$ kash $$$$ that it's interesting how he suddenly drops the
> >code-boy nihilistic nazi bullshit

> He is something of a nazi though.

        Due to my chronic mental illness, I am unable to understand how
antiorp is a "nazi," or how his language is "nazi."  Perhaps I'm overly
sentimental, but I thought this term was well-reserved for racist people
who killed thousands of Jews.  Could someone enlighten me as to how
antiorp is a "nazi"?  I really do need help.

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 13 Jul 1998 09:57:33 -0400
From:    Chris Murtagh Hrdc-drhc 
Subject: This totally useless and destructive thread.

From: "Fleur de Vie Weinstock" , on 7/13/98 9:10
AM:


>   Could someone enlighten me as to how
>antiorp is a "nazi"?  I really do need help.

No. Please don't enlighten him. Frankly, I don't care. The last thing I
would have expected from a listserv of mostly academics and intellectuals
was a thread like this one. Please, if it only for my sake (I'm the one who
gets all the complaints remember) PLEASE stop this thread.Thank you.

Sincerely,
Christopher Murtagh
MAX listserv owner
chris@music.mcgill.ca

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 13 Jul 1998 12:51:58 -0400
From:    Stephen Kay 
Subject: I will stop now...

I admit that I've let my end of this get a bit out hand, and this
will be my final post on the subject.

The original issue was simply a question of whether or not a =

person owning an unlicensed or unpurchased copy of Max should get
*detailed* help on specific issues from the list, such as an
entire chapter from the manual devoted to making collectives.

My original post on the subject was to suggest (and not so
unkindly) that this was not entirely proper.  This is an issue
that pertains to Max, albeit in the area of intellectual
property.  This was not a personal attack on the person
asking the question, but rather a general response on an issue
of intellectual property.  However, rather than discuss it in =

any rational fashion, I was personally attacked by the self-
appointed guardian of the right-to-steal movement, to which I =

responded in like fashion (my mistake, sinking to the level =

of the attacker).

I apologize for getting carried away with the name-calling;
here's just the points which I should have listed:

1) Intellectual property laws do exist.
2) Software Licenses do not allow you to give away extra
copies when you sell your computer.
3) It may therefore be improper for people with such
licensing problems to be essentially requesting sections
of the users manual from the list.
4) antiorp normally writes in a difficult to read,
machine-like pseudo-german, making it difficult at best
and time consuming to figure out what he's saying,
*except* when he's requesting money for sales of *his*
intellectual property.
5) which is hypocritical considering he's all for stealing
software if one doesn't have the money to buy it.

I'll now return to the development of intellectual property,
and hopefully the list can return to normally scheduled =

programming.  Further responses should be sent to me directly.

Apologies,
Stephen Kay

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 13 Jul 1998 12:51:56 -0400
From:    Stephen Kay 
Subject: announcement

>the cash from the first 10 additional cdz ordered
>will be spent on a copy of max which antiorp will personally
>purchase + ship to Stephen Kay
>[although it will cost antiorp additional cash to ship
>from europe to the phatland]  after which Stephen Kay
>is required that he ship it to the person requesting assistance with
>the standalones - at Stephen Kay's expense.

I make a promise to the entire list, in front of witnesses.

I accept this offer.  When antiorp makes good on his promise
and sends me a shrink-wrapped copy of MAX which he has purchased,
I will ship it to the person requesting assistance with
stand-alones at my own expense.  It will be a bit like winning
the lottery for that person, and I'll be happy to assist in this
noble venture.

Let's see if it happens.

Stephen Kay

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 13 Jul 1998 13:04:55 -0400
From:    Tommy DOG 
Subject: David Tudor

Dear David,
Are you going to be in town for this event?
If you are I'd love to show you the studio and have some coffee.
Hope all is well with you and yours.
Is the the little guy already speaking CGI?
TD

"Death To The Dumb, Curses Upon The Heads Of The Weird"
    Tommy DOG: Music Brut via humans and machines
              http://www.tommydog.com/

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 13 Jul 1998 13:13:44 -0400
From:    Fleur de Vie Weinstock 
Subject: Re: announcement

        That sounds fantastic.  I hope that antiorp and Stephen Kay will
let us know if/when it happens, and that the person receiving it is into
it....?

On Mon, 13 Jul 1998, Stephen Kay wrote:

> >the cash from the first 10 additional cdz ordered
> >will be spent on a copy of max which antiorp will personally
> >purchase + ship to Stephen Kay
> >[although it will cost antiorp additional cash to ship
> >from europe to the phatland]  after which Stephen Kay
> >is required that he ship it to the person requesting assistance with
> >the standalones - at Stephen Kay's expense.
>
> I make a promise to the entire list, in front of witnesses.
>
> I accept this offer.  When antiorp makes good on his promise
> and sends me a shrink-wrapped copy of MAX which he has purchased,
> I will ship it to the person requesting assistance with
> stand-alones at my own expense.  It will be a bit like winning
> the lottery for that person, and I'll be happy to assist in this
> noble venture.
>
> Let's see if it happens.
>
> Stephen Kay
>

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 13 Jul 1998 13:42:00 -0400
From:    Fleur de Vie Weinstock 
Subject: Alchemy program

        Have any of you worked with Alchemy and have particular
suggestions for particularly cool ways of using it?

_______________________________________________________________________________
                          <>Senior Recital<>
                      <>Fleur de Vie Weinstock<>
                  <>8 PM, Sunday, April 25th, 1999<>
                <>Paine Hall, Harvard University, Free<>
   <>audience participation, mbira dzavadzimu, electronic composition,
                   improvisational piano, and Other<>

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 13 Jul 1998 23:12:42 +0200
From:    Peter Castine 
Subject: Chauvinism (Was: Personal attacks)

On Sun, 12 Jul 1998 03:10:05 EDT Bruce Meng  wrote
about his American ancestors:

>   Not one of them that ever got here entertained the though of leaving
>here for someplace better.
>
>When you attack an American, you're attacking the world, because
>some portion of every part of the world is here.

I will spare the list my full response to the above, shall we say, mildly
chauvinistic comments. In Bruce's defense, he was responding to something
resembling America[n]-bashing (to the extent that the cw4t7abs' cryptic
comments were unambiguously decipherable).

BUT, if there is more "America is the greatest country in the world"
nonsense, I may not be able to restrain myself. You have been warned.

(And, those who have not lived for something at least approaching a
decade in a foreign country disqualify themselves from extended
discussion of the thesis).

OK, that's all for tonight.

Cheers,

Peter

---------------- http://www.prz.tu-berlin.de/~pcastine/ ----------------
Dr. Peter Castine            Settle in Seattle or Sheboygan; Los Angeles
pcastine@prz.tu-berlin.de    or Las Cruces; Chicago or Carbondale; Miami
                             Ohio or Miami Florida; and you never have
to justify your decision. But if you're an American living in Europe,
you learn to expect to be asked, Why?
                                       -- Micael Mewshaw, _Playing Away_

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 14 Jul 1998 00:17:14 +0200
From:    Roby Steinmetzer 
Subject: still waiting for a new authorization disk......., j'en ai
marre!!!!!!!

James Livingston,

nice to have unofficial opcode presence on the max list, thanks for it.
Perhaps you can explain why I have to wait for two (2) months for an
 authorization disk replacement?

If Opcode is using an unreliable copy protection system, I don't see why I
have
 should have the problems with it.
I try to earn money with Max but that's impossible like that.

So, as I don't know how long I have to wait for the disk I ask again:

Does anyone know how to crack this copy protection system?
This seems to be the only way that I can do my job.
I asked for it some weeks ago but the enthusiasm was rather poor.
So come on you hackers and crackers out there, don't be afraid, there's
nothing
 illegal to post it.
(And to all the sheriffs: Yes, I paid for Max.)

Roby Steinmetzer
Luxembourg, Europe

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 14 Jul 1998 00:18:09 +0200
From:    Roby Steinmetzer 
Subject: imperialistic tendencies

Concerning the last days' thread, there were some tendencies I would call
 imperialistic.
This makes me AFRAID.

It is antiorp's legitime choice if s/he wants to be understood or not.
Perhaps it's a question of sensibility.

Roby Steinmetzer
Luxembourg, Europe

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 13 Jul 1998 20:52:46 -0400
From:    Jeff Mann 
Subject: Re: am I a legal owner ?

Nicholas, Gene, Stephen, =cw4t7abs, and anyone else with
pro/anti-antiorp comments, please continue them (if you must) in private
e-mail, thanks.

Geez, doesn't anyone read their license agreements?

"This SOFTWARE is licensed only to you, the LICENSEE, and may not be
transferred to anyone without the prior written consent of Opcode". I
would imagine that this consent cannot be unreasonably withheld, but for
that we would have to check the Laws of the State of California.

In general, I would say that if the "Godknowshwere Mr. X", who sold his
copy of Max, Photoshop, etc. to flow, didn't keep a copy for his own
use, then it is ok. If he kept the original install disks, or any other
copy, then it is pirated.  But either way, the important fact is that
Adobe and Opcode won't *recognize* you as a legal owner without a
written transfer agreement. So as far as upgrades or tech support,
you're out of luck. For Adobe, you can get the appropriate form from
their fax-back system. As far as Max:

James Livingston  wrote:
> Opcode discontinued the transferral of registrations approximately a year
> and a half ago, which would mean that you are welcome to use the software

[provided, I assume, that Mr. X didn't keep a copy]

> but would not receive over the phone technical support, be notified of
> upgrades, be eligible fo r upgrade pricing, or the purchase of additional
> authorization disks .

This is a surprising statement. James, would you mind double-checking
this and confirming it? I bought Studio Vision Pro, which I paid a lot
of money for, and then bought Logic Audio. Now I should just toss Studio
Vision in the trash? I can't sell my copy of Max so that I can buy a
nice Linux box and run Pd? No way! I've never heard of such a thing. As
I said, I would think that Opcode's written consent for a license
transfer can't be unreasonably withheld, so I would encourage people not
to put up with this. Any Californian lawyers out there?

> >Don't know whether I can be a member of this list because of my
> >confusig-owner-status; don't know whether I can expect some help here.

It might be that Mr. X gave flow his Photoshop manual and a Max install
because:
- he doesn't have a computer anymore (good)
- he upgraded and got a new manual and install disk (bad)
- he is an angel in disguise (very good)
- he photocopied the manual and gave a cracked version of Max (very bad)
- who needs a Photoshop manual, and who cares about Max? (indifferent)

Who knows? I doubt anyone is going to figure this out without talking to
Mr. X, and even then it might be fuzzy. I think flow may be permanently
relegated to the "confusig-owner-status". Let's get him hooked on Max,
and when his HD authourization blanks out just before his first public
performance, he'll have to send money...[insert maniacal laugh here].

cu later 
mailto:jefman@utcc.utoronto.ca ||   http://www.interlog.com/~jefman
Visit the Art & Robotics Group site: http://www.interaccess.org/arg

------------------------------

End of MAX Digest - 13 Jul 1998 - Special issue
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