Subject: MAX Digest - 12 Jul 1998 to 13 Jul 1998 - Special issue
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 04:32:41 -0400
From: Automatic digest processor 
Reply-To: MAX - interactive music/multimedia standard environments
     
To: Recipients of MAX digests 

There are 9 messages totalling 528 lines in this issue.

Topics in this special issue:

  1. how to make an amer!kan again +? (2)
  2. 1\[2^n]*sin[n*x]
  3. how to make a phat amer!kan again +?
  4. Personal attacks
  5. unclaimed software
  6. licenses
  7. cd object
  8. am I a legal owner ?

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 12 Jul 1998 21:45:36 -0800
From:    Gene Schwartz 
Subject: Re: how to make an amer!kan again +?

>
>Date:    Sun, 12 Jul 1998 01:36:08 -0400
>From:    Nicholas Longo <71477.2332@COMPUSERVE.COM>
>Subject: Re: how to make an amer!kan again +?
>
><<<
>I suggest antiorp not try to survive from his anti-commercial music.
>Sometimes it amazes me how the allegedly most intelligent people miss
>the most obvious things.  If it's anti-commercial, why is he selling
>it?  That makes it commercial music.

You are switching between 2 different meanings of commercial to try to show
a contradiction. Plus you are using my characterization of his music to
show a contradiction in antiorp's reasoning.

> If he sells one copy he's a
>commercial artist.  If he makes a profit, he's a successful entrepeneur.
>His anti-commercialism looks like a carefully conceived public image he's
>leveraging into record sales.

Well, if you want to say that, by definition, anyone who survives in a
capitalist economy is a capitalist, and anyone who sells music is making
commercial music, and someone who ekes out just enough to live is a
successful entrepeneur, I think that your point doesn't really accomplish
very much. Essentially you're saying that anyone who proclaims themselves
to be against capitalism is a hypocrite.

>Read the books.  Releasing an Independent
>Record by Gary Hustwit lays it out pretty well.

Excuse me, what do I need a book to tell me here?

> It even sounds like
>antiorp ran into typical problems with a distributor.

Point?

> I bet Decibel
>Records demanded 100 CDs up front and the contract said they'd pay
>in three months.  They might have even put some in stores.  But if they
>don't sell, the stores don't pay, and the distributors don't pay the
>artist.  The artist gets upset, demands his money, but doesn't have a
>clue about how to get it, or even get his records back.  Besides,
>contracts and lawyers are against his ethics.  Live and learn.
>

Well, the fact that you're betting as to what the facts are without knowing
them doesn't really carry much weight in this discussion.

><<
>Actually, I understand antiorp's been kicked off a number of mailing lists.

Badge of honor.

>We're very tolerant here.  He is something of a nazi though.

A nazi? That's classic. Let's see - you've certainly presented an air tight
case for that one.

>I bet he
>punishes me with a long derogatory post that nevertheless has some minor
>artistic merit.
>

I hope so!

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 12 Jul 1998 23:39:42 -0600
From:    =cw4t7abs 
Subject: 1\[2^n]*sin[n*x]

>From:    Stephen Kay 
>> =3Dcw4t7abs =3D=3D reku!re data
>Wrong.

not!sz !ts s!gn!f!cansz.

>cw4t7abs =3D=3D reku!re $$ kash $$
>For those of you who couldn't decipher antiorp's latest ramblings,
>let me translate:

>Someone is selling bogus copies of my (antiorp's) CD. (weep)

my.

kompass!on + underztand!ng != laughabl mattr.

>So we are pressing a new release.

we.

>Please send us money $$.

us.

>Please *buy* the fruits of my work.

facetious ovum the quixotic zygote pounced jubilantly for wary kilometers

would u prefer one ask 4 $3 4 1 lawyer human +?
pardon. mais. =cw4t7abs doeznt zupport krapmattr.

> Please pay me
>for some
>intellectual property I've created. Oh, and by the way,
>if anyone is an unregistered Max user who has a bogus copy
>of the program and didn't pay for it, I'll be glad to help
>you with any problems you might have with collectives.

dz!-e
akadem!k pipe-bomb.
bass.sik.ally.f[x]sum
1\[2^n]*sin[n*x]
kchr-kewL||kchr-kewL
detr.end.aus.1.63e.
ass!st!ng dzat person
w!ll kausz Stephen Kay 0 damage
w!ll kausz opkode 0 damage

Stephen Kay = assumez evr+e1 ask!ng 1 kuest!on haznt pa!d 4 max.

\\ announcement _____--__++

once the 50 orders necessary 2 repress a9ff v0+2 have akkumulated
all additional cash matter will be utilized to purchase copies of max
and msp [from ircam]
10 cdz = 1 max copy or 1 msp copy.

the cash from the first 10 additional cdz ordered
will be spent on a copy of max which antiorp will personally
purchase + ship to Stephen Kay
[although it will cost antiorp additional cash to ship
from europe to the phatland]  after which Stephen Kay
is required that he ship it to the person requesting assistance with
the standalones - at Stephen Kay's expense. - it is requested that Stephen
Kay
utilize federal express as well.

>antiorp =3D=3D kapitalist
>antiorp =3D=3D fascist
>antiorp =3D=3D hypokr!t

dze kommun!ztz sa!. komrade luvrz. fuk freel+e.

>Here's how antiorp writes normally:
>
>zum uv U hav al+readee plasd 1 ordur or hav ment!ond U wud do zo.
>
>Here's how antiorp writes when asking for $3 kash $:

hav pr!vatel+e announszd 3-4 weekx ago.
rece!vd 1 flood ov ema!lz ask!ng 4 eczplanat!onz.
w!ll reannounsz !n antiorp z!ntacz +
w!ll 4ward all !nku!r!ez 2 Stephen Kay.

+ let us plasz !t d!sz wa!.
numerouz humanz hav des!dd 2 support dze repress!ng +
zom ov dzose humanz happen 2 b dzose mozt humanz on d!sz l!zt would
um - um - bow down to s!nsz shall we sa! ultra phat akadem!kz.
[rel!g!on = st!ll dze norm at d!ss d!latd po!nt !n human zpasz t!me]

>>>some of you have already placed an order
>>>or have mentioned you would do so.
>
>antiorp =3D=3D hypokr!t

!f humanz l!ke u d!d not ecz!st d!sz would not b necessar+e.
Stephen Kay = v.much l!ke dze human d!ztr!but!ng
dze cd.  m!nor eczept!on - dzat part!kulr human
ut!l!zed dze fraze - antiorp fuk u
a few addtl t!mez.

plz launch browzr 4 !zt t!me !n 1 sentur+e
+ chek dze mater!al menT!ond.
m9ndfukc.macht.fre!.
e.oui.

>P.S.  Instead of posting 3 long ramblings that are essentially
>the same thing with a few minor changes, why not *edit* your
>!krapmattr! before posting?

repet!t!on teachez

regard [franca!s]

v f!b n
[1] a<-1 1              ^
[2] ->2 x n>pa<-a, +/-2 | a v

pauze :
zmkx (m,138) :- zmkx (m,404), zmkx (404,138)

cccelf osc glot!z.
pls ov art!k : lab!al
mannr ov art!k : stop
vowel he!ght : h!gh
punkt : s!lent

klattalk : 10th ordr pred!ktr : tzzt
quaz! newton : non : eukl!d!an d!ztanss : eRR||

log magn!tude zpektra 4 dze utteransz   antiorp - fuk u

\\

the unity of krapmaTTer.  antiorp fuk u.

frp.
why.

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 12 Jul 1998 23:41:13 -0600
From:    =cw4t7abs 
Subject: how to make a phat amer!kan again +?

>From:    Nicholas Longo <71477.2332@COMPUSERVE.COM>

COMPUSERVE + aol

>I suggest antiorp not try to survive from his anti-commercial music.

!f Nicholas Longo = poszed 1 m9nd konta!nr + 1 web browzer Nicholas Longo
would b spared dze
guess!ng mattr. d!z appl!ez 2 a selekt odr `datd` humanz.

>Sometimes it amazes me how the allegedly most intelligent people miss
>the most obvious things.

!= amaz!ng = obv!ouz

> If it's anti-commercial, why is he selling
>it?  That makes it commercial music.  If he sells one copy he's a
>commercial artist.  If he makes a profit, he's a successful entrepeneur.
>His anti-commercialism looks like a carefully conceived public image he's
>leveraging into record sales.  Read the books.

sh!p dze bookx.

> Releasing an Independent
>Record by Gary Hustwit lays it out pretty well.  It even sounds like
>antiorp ran into typical problems with a distributor.  I bet Decibel
>Records demanded 100 CDs up front and the contract said they'd pay
>in three months.

!f Nicholas Longo = poszed 1 m9nd konta!nr + 1 web browzer Nicholas Longo
would b spared dze
guess!ng mattr. d!z appl!ez 2 selekt odr `datd` humanz.

>They might have even put some in stores.

wh!ch antiorp = attempt!ng 2 ztop.

>But if they
>don't sell, the stores don't pay, and the distributors don't pay the
>artist.  The artist gets upset, demands his money, but doesn't have a
>clue about how to get it, or even get his records back.  Besides,
>contracts and lawyers are against his ethics.  Live and learn.

l!ve. launch browser. + read. dzen !njetz oun vom!t.

><<
>Actually, I understand antiorp's been kicked off a number of mailing lists.

0.
antiorp left 1 ma!l!ng l!zt.
few art!klz 2 appear !n a number ov magz shortl+e.
szuposz dze max l!zt w!ll b kovrd az well.
az !t = haz 1+1+1 t!p!kl reprezentat!vz ov dze
sensor front.

>We're very tolerant here.

we =_?

> He is something of a nazi though.

Nicholas Longo.z def ov nazi = arka!k.

>I bet he
>punishes me with a long derogatory post that nevertheless has some minor
>artistic merit.

  > tzo dzen Nicholas Longo.z `art`

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 12 Jul 1998 21:49:23 -0800
From:    Gene Schwartz 
Subject: Re: Personal attacks

Bruce Meng wrote:
>Can we eliminate the personal attacks, and personal agendas?
>
>personal agendas?
>personal agendas?
>personal agendas?
>personal agendas?
>

 >Why spew out all that anti-American/anti-capitalist hate
>here?  I find this a little hard to take when I look back at what all my
>ancestors went through to get here and give me what I have today.
>It doesn't take very much to imagine what the world would be like today
>if America didn't exist.
>

>When you attack an American, you're attacking the world, because
>some portion of every part of the world is here.
>

That's why I love MAX, it's such a god darned patriotic program.

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 12 Jul 1998 21:57:03 -0800
From:    Gene Schwartz 
Subject: Re: how to make an amer!kan again +?

>I'm pointing out that when antiorp's ass is on the line and he wants
>some $$$$ kash $$$$ that it's interesting how he suddenly drops the
>code-boy nihilistic nazi bullshit

You make a good point there, Steve. The world would be much better off
without them code-boy nihilistic nazis spoiling this town. I say, you's and
me should do somethin' about it. Whadya say?

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 12 Jul 1998 23:18:38 -0700
From:    David Zicarelli 
Subject: unclaimed software

The idea that leaving software on a computer that you sell is
illegal is a new one for me. Is the recording industry going
to come after me if I sell my car and leave a CD in the stereo?

David Z.

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 13 Jul 1998 02:50:51 -0400
From:    Stephen Kay 
Subject: licenses

>>if anyone is an unregistered Max user who has a bogus copy
>>of the program and didn't pay for it, I'll be glad to help
>>you with any problems you might have with collectives.

>ass!st!ng dzat person
>w!ll kausz Stephen Kay 0 damage
>w!ll kausz opkode 0 damage

>Stephen Kay =3D assumez evr+e1 ask!ng 1 kuest!on haznt pa!d 4 max.

Wrong.  Oh, excuse me:  bzzt.

Will you be happy to help/support/assist those people who acquire
your CD from the source you have deemed a criminal?

The person has made it clear that s/he does not possess valid
licenses to Max, in addition to several other (expensive) =

programs on the second-hand computer s/he bought.

I tried to (quickly and not so unkindly) suggest that this person
acquire a valid license, and this recent flamefest is the result.

Intellectual property is an important issue to me, since I have
chosen to try and make a living based on it recently.

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 13 Jul 1998 09:40:43 +0200
From:    Georg Hajdu 
Subject: Re: cd object

Peter-

Thanks for your reply.

>Now that people know he's working on an ATAPI capable version of cd, poor
>David is probably inundated with requests to "just let me try your
>current version." I can well imagine that he doesn't want a thousand
>copies of a beta (or possibly alpha or even dev.) version floating around
>the world. With good reason.

Does *anyone* have, by any chance, a beta version of this new cd object (as
=
I
am going to teach a MAX class at this Landesmusikakademie in Heek,
NRW--mainly using PowerMacintosh 4400 machines with internal ATAPI drives)?

>Georg: I thought you'd heard about how Joachim Stange-Elbe had to go
>running around to dig up an external CD-ROM for my Max presentation in
>Osnabr=FCck last year.

Well, I must admit I missed that part of the KlangArt festival.
Besides, attaching an old CD-ROM drive is not a huge problem for me since I
am a proud owner of a Apple 150 drive. But I don't like to carry excess
equipment around (that`s why I'm getting a Powerbook in the first place).

Sch=F6ne Ferien (to those experiencing this middle-European "green-painted
winter" (after Heinrich (Henry) Heine).

Georg

***************************************************
                                             Georg Hajdu

Hochschule f=FCr Musik Detmold,
Abteilung M=FCnster
Ludgeriplatz 1
D-48151 Muenster
Germany

e-mail: hajdu@uni-muenster.de
http://www.uni-muenster.de/Musikhochschule/Dozenten/Hajdu/home.html
****************************************************

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 13 Jul 1998 01:47:06 -0700
From:    James Livingston 
Subject: am I a legal owner ?

>  1. am I a legal owner ?
>
>Date:    Fri, 10 Jul 1998 16:48:18 +0200
>From:    flow 
>Subject: am I a legal owner ?
>
>hello again,
>
>this is something else than programming, this is about license and I can
>tell you sometimes I have a big mess in it.
>when buying my computer as a second hand I got some soft *preinstalled*.
>E.g. for photoshop I got everything incl. manual etc. Because I wanted
>it. I knew that's there. And I didn't know MAX is also there. So I didn't
>ask for anything about MAX. I got nothing and Mr X. is Godknowswhere. Can
>I now say I'm a legal owner of a Photoshop when not registrating with
>Adobe (I never do it, my small country is out of their support reach) ?
>Also am I not a legal owner of MAX when the copy is legal ?

Opcode discontinued the transferral of registrations approximately a year
and a half ago, which would mean that you are welcome to use the software
but would not receive over the phone technical support, be notified of
upgrades, be eligible fo r upgrade pricing, or the purchase of additional
authorization disks .

You may want to contact customer service (650-856-3333; info@opcode.com) to
make sure that this info is still accurate...but last I heard that was the
policy. It is also possible that your local distributor (for international
customers) will have a different policy in regard to the transfer of
licences.  You can get the contact info for your local distributor from the
above ph#/email.

 >I don't know.
>I say, I consider MAX a masterpiece and I want to support it - that's why
>I want to buy it again. It's worth of it. But have to save money (I said,
>it will eat my 4 montly salaries).

Yikes!

>I don't know if I'm a legal owner at the time, but anyway I'm gonna use
>max further.

Yeah!

>Don't know whether I can be a member of this list because of my
>confusig-owner-status; don't know whether I can expect some help here.

As far as I know Opcode maintains no official presence on this list
therefore tech support type questions will not likely be answered by any
Opcode employees.  You may find that sympathetic list-ers will understand
your interest in learning MAX and help you out privately.

There are also many online resources that you can find links to at the Web
site of just about any academic institution that has computer music
facilities.

>
>that's all. thanx.
>
>flow.

Can't we all just Max along?

-James

------------------------------

End of MAX Digest - 12 Jul 1998 to 13 Jul 1998 - Special issue
**************************************************************