Subject: MAX Digest - 11 Jul 1998 to 12 Jul 1998
Date: Mon, 13 Jul 1998 00:00:54 -0400
From: Automatic digest processor 
Reply-To: MAX - interactive music/multimedia standard environments
To: Recipients of MAX digests 

There are 9 messages totalling 318 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. how to make an amer!kan again +? (3)
  2. x986896
  3. Rainforest
  4. zippy authorization
  5. Personal attacks
  6. am I a legal owner ?
  7. Systems, What System?


Date:    Sat, 11 Jul 1998 22:01:42 -0800
From:    Gene Schwartz 
Subject: Re: how to make an amer!kan again +?

Bill Vorn wrote:

>On Sat, 11 Jul 1998, Gene Schwartz wrote:
>> He has friends.

Cleverness with no basis in reality is shallow.


Date:    Sat, 11 Jul 1998 22:17:12 -0800
From:    Gene Schwartz 
Subject: Re: x986896

Steven Kay wrote:
>> =3Dcw4t7abs =3D=3D reku!re data
>cw4t7abs =3D=3D reku!re $$ kash $$
>For those of you who couldn't decipher antiorp's latest ramblings,
>let me translate:
>Someone is selling bogus copies of my (antiorp's) CD. (weep)
>So we are pressing a new release.  Please send us money $$.
>Please *buy* the fruits of my work.  Please pay me for some
>intellectual property I've created.  Oh, and by the way,
>if anyone is an unregistered Max user who has a bogus copy
>of the program and didn't pay for it, I'll be glad to help
>you with any problems you might have with collectives.

This is absolutely false and irresponsible. Antiorp offered to help ONE
particular person whose intent isn't to steal anything.

>antiorp =3D=3D kapitalist
>antiorp =3D=3D fascist
>antiorp =3D=3D hypokr!t
>Here's how antiorp writes normally:
>zum uv U hav al+readee plasd 1 ordur or hav ment!ond U wud do zo.
>Here's how antiorp writes when asking for $$ kash $$:

>>>some of you have already placed an order
>>>or have mentioned you would do so.
>antiorp =3D=3D hypokr!t

Hyprocisy is a term reserved for inconsistencies between what one pretends
to be and what one is. You are pointing out that antiorp speaks differently
in different situations and on the basis of this you are calling him a
hypocrite. The assumption, therefore, is that you speak exactly the same
way in all situations. Obviously this is false, therefore you are the


Date:    Sun, 12 Jul 1998 01:36:08 -0400
From:    Nicholas Longo <71477.2332@COMPUSERVE.COM>
Subject: Re: how to make an amer!kan again +?

Subject: Rainforest

New York area residents may wish to check out David Tudor's
Rainforest at the Lincoln Center summer festival July 15-19.
This is an installation with all the original participants
(other than Tudor, of course) and (resonating) objects.

It's not completely authentic though. Apparently MSP will be used
to do some of the driving oscillations...

A typographically challenged summer festival calendar is at

David Z.


Date:    Fri, 10 Jul 1998 17:18:17 -0700
From:    David Zicarelli 
Subject: zippy authorization

I talked to someone today who couldn't authorize MSP on their
G3 with System 8.1 if any disk was in the Zip drive. Remove
the Zip disk and there wasn't a problem. However, the presence
of a Zip disk was not a hindrance to authorizing Max 3.5.9
with a key disk.

Just another data point in the mysterious and wacky world of
copy protection.

David Z.


Date:    Sun, 12 Jul 1998 03:10:05 EDT
From:    Bruce Meng 
Subject: Personal attacks

Can we eliminate the personal attacks, and personal agendas?

Can we get back to a more altruistic, mutual-aid point of view?

Frankly, if I were the owner or a developer of MAX,
I would resent anyone using this list to assist anyone
attempting to circumvent the the very reasonable obligation
to at least own the copy of MAX they're using.  Attitudes to
the contrary are exactly why we are saddled with this
(barely adequate) copy-protection scheme.  If one wants to
kill future MAX development, the surest way is to openly promote
support for improperly acquired copies.

begin personal attack here...

I personally resent the abusive phrase "ultra-fat American population"
-- forgive me for spelling it correctly.  What this has to do with MAX
is beyond me.  Why spew out all that anti-American/anti-capitalist hate
here?  I find this a little hard to take when I look back at what all my
ancestors went through to get here and give me what I have today.
It doesn't take very much to imagine what the world would be like today
if America didn't exist.

If you really want to insult us, do it in English -- the gibberish pseudo
language just doesn't cut it.

R B Meng

U S citizen, with Chinese-sounding last name, born in a predominantly
African-American community, (on Dr. Martin Luther King Drive no less)
of a Scottish-surnamed mother (both grandparents Canadian) to a
World War 2 veteran/survivor of German/British ancestry, etc. I count
among my ancestors, Ben Franklin, William Rawson (secretary of Mass.
Bay Colony who signed Salem witch trial death certificates), a
native-American woman Rob Roy,possibly Mozart -- TBD, numerous
successful and unsuccessful capitalists, and probably a horse thief or
two.   Not one of them that ever got here entertained the though of leaving
here for someplace better.

When you attack an American, you're attacking the world, because
some portion of every part of the world is here.

end personal attack....


Date:    Sun, 12 Jul 1998 04:01:09 -0400
From:    Stephen Kay 
Subject: am I a legal owner ?

>this is something else than programming, this is about license and I can=

>tell you sometimes I have a big mess in it.
>when buying my computer as a second hand I got some soft *preinstalled*.=

>E.g. for photoshop I got everything incl. manual etc. Because I wanted
>it. I knew that's there. And I didn't know MAX is also there. So I didn'=
>ask for anything about MAX. I got nothing and Mr X. is Godknowswhere. Ca=
>I now say I'm a legal owner of a Photoshop when not registrating with
>Adobe (I never do it, my small country is out of their support reach) ?
>Also am I not a legal owner of MAX when the copy is legal ? I don't know=

I don't really want to continue this any more than necessary, but the
answer is unfortunately:

*** NO ***

to all your questions.  You do NOT get a license to software that is
*illegally* left on a computer that you buy second hand.   This is simple=

legal software license stuff that has been well established for many
years.  I say *illegally* because technically, the real abuser in this =

situation is the person who sold you the computer - I believe (without =

checking this and I'm sure someone will tell me if I'm wrong) that most
software licenses require the owner of software to de-install it from
a computer that is changing hands.  Anyway, the concept is pretty simple.=

You bought the computer.  Not every piece of software the previous
owner may have purchased during his life.

P.S.  Call Adobe and ask them what they think of the term "pre-installed"=

as you have applied it here.

Stephen Kay


Date:    Sun, 12 Jul 1998 04:01:13 -0400
From:    Stephen Kay 
Subject: Re: how to make an amer!kan again +?

Gene Scwartz:
>How does this work exactly? Suggest a method by which antiorp may try to=

>survive from his very anti-commercial music via purely telepathic means.=

>Can Max be set up to do this (I'm a beginner).

You certainly said it in the last sentence.  No elucidation required.

>>Hey dude, I resent that - I don't eat animal flesh.

>Perhaps there is some kind of metaphor going on here, given lack of
>evidence. Just a thought.

It's just that you missed the double level of sarcasm.  Way over your
head, I guess.

>Hyprocisy is a term reserved for inconsistencies between what one preten=
>to be and what one is. You are pointing out that antiorp speaks
>in different situations and on the basis of this you are calling him a
>hypocrite. The assumption, therefore, is that you speak exactly the same=

>way in all situations. Obviously this is false, therefore you are the

I'm pointing out that when antiorp's ass is on the line and he wants
some $$$$ kash $$$$ that it's interesting how he suddenly drops the
code-boy nihilistic nazi bullshit  (I guess that would be kind of
a marketing department decision, were there a company involved).

How can you say that I don't speak the same way in all situations?  What
the hell do you actually know about me? Oh, excuse me...

How kan U zay dat i don't spee+k ze zame way 'n ol s!tuashunz?  Wat
ze heL du U akshually NO about mi mi mi fa so la ti do?

Stephen Kay


Date:    Sun, 12 Jul 1998 09:04:40 -0400
From:    Tommy DOG 
Subject: Systems, What System?

Dear Uncle Max,
I'm concidering bumping up to another system, I'm at 7.7.5 (running on a
PPC 8500/135). I know there has been a lot of hoopla about Sytem 8.1, both
pro and con. What I want to know is if I bump up to let's say System 7.6.1
instead of jumping to 8.1 am I going to have less trouble with installs and
what not?

I'm in the process of finishing the mixing of my new CD and am about to go
into mastering it and I don't want to have my computer become useless
during this moment in my life. I actually will most likely wait until I've
burned a master that I like before going crazy.

So the bottom line here is can I use 7.6 without the install problems of 8?
I just want to update the system, restart and go back to work.

If anyone would like to add input on other software beside Max, I'm using
current or semi current versions of Director, Sound Designer, Performer,
IRCAM Forum stuff, MSP and a few other things.
PS I have yet to update The Max Resource Guide which can be located through
the URL in my sig. but I will soon.

"Death To The Dumb, Curses Upon The Heads Of The Weird"
    Tommy DOG: Music Brut via humans and machines


End of MAX Digest - 11 Jul 1998 to 12 Jul 1998