Subject: MAX Digest - 1 Jul 1998 to 2 Jul 1998
Date: Fri, 3 Jul 1998 00:00:33 -0400
From: Automatic digest processor 
Reply-To: MAX - interactive music/multimedia standard environments
To: Recipients of MAX digests 

There are 13 messages totalling 498 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. MSP turns off "listen"
  2. Authorization losses!! (3)
  3. MAX and Serial Communications
  4. MAX with / without MSP
  5. Authorization Losses
  6. 9-pin powerglove to goldbrick interface
  7. Two Questions
  8. Nubus -> PCI
  9. MAX Digest - 1 Jul 1998
 10. download Mody
 11. Middle East petition (fwd)


Date:    Wed, 1 Jul 1998 22:43:16 -0700
From:    David Zicarelli 
Subject: Re: MSP turns off "listen"

Fred Collopy  writes:

>When I launch Max with MSP installed, it appears to turn off listen in the
>Monitors and Sound Control Panel. Is there some way to have MSP running,
>and still leave listen on so that I can hear the CD playing. That is, I
>want to monitor the CD, absent any processing through Max or MSP.

You're using a G3 with System 8.0 or System 8.1. This was a
really stupid "improvement" made in these systems. The moment
any sound input device is opened, you lose the playthrough
of the input to the computer.

David Z.


Date:    Wed, 1 Jul 1998 22:46:03 -0700
From:    David Zicarelli 
Subject: Re: Authorization losses!!

Nick Rothwell  writes:

>I'm genuinely trying to explain to David Z. my reasons for not being
>interested in upgrading. He seems to think my decision is
>misguided. It certainly puts me in the minority.

Nick's reasons for not upgrading having to do with the appropriateness
of the upgrade for his setup are perfectly legitimate. The reasons
I think are potentially misguided have to do with copy protection.

David Z.


Date:    Wed, 1 Jul 1998 22:55:32 -0700
From:    David Zicarelli 
Subject: Re: MAX and Serial Communications

Matt Biederman  asks:

>For an upcoming show at the San Francisco Museum of Modern Art, I would
>like to use MAX to control a variety of serial devices. I've looked into
>Creative Solutions' "SEQS" box which connects to the SCSI port and will
>give a Mac 4 additional serial ports.  For this to work however, i need
>to know if MAX is compatible with Apple Communications Toolbox
>protocols. Is it?

Typically, serial cards use the standard serial driver and don't
need any Comm Toolbox routines (most of the Comm Toolbox is
no longer supported in the OS). However, you have to use a tricky
Comm Toolbox-esque scheme to find these extra drivers; you can't
simply open them as with the modem and printer port. The latest
serial object, included with Max 3.5.9, should do this. Previous
versions are bit less enlightened. So I would suspect the SEQS
box will work. However, it sounds like an inferior solution to
a PCI card if you have a computer with PCI slots. I know that
the new serial object works with at least one PCI serial card;
I assume it should work with them all. The help file explains
how you access any additional ports in your system.

David Z.


Date:    Thu, 2 Jul 1998 10:22:54 +0200
From:    Robert Henke 
Subject: MAX with / without MSP

Dear Maxers, dear David Z.,

Sometimes I need to run pure MAX apps without audio and at the same time
some other software for audio processing.
Quite normal situation i guess. But because  MSP is accessing my soundcard
i am not able to do so.
Is there any way to launch MAX 3.5.8 without MSP ?
Using MAX 3.0 instead is not such a good solution.  Removing all MSP files
temporary is  even worse ...


btw.: i still could not solve my multiple computers/studio 4  problem. Is
there anyone on this midi planet who has managed to run two computers with
max apps via  one studio 4 without serious troubles ? ( i dont want to =
this a MAX forum topic again, so personal reply is ok! )


                                R o b e r t    H e n k e
i m b a l a n c e   computer  music


Date:    Thu, 2 Jul 1998 12:27:44 +0200
From:    Peter Castine 
Subject: Re: Authorization Losses

On Wed, 1 Jul 1998 08:51:27 -0000 Nick Rothwell  asked,
(citing some earlier stuff by other people):
>>            Is there a law against using kraks on registered
>>            software????
>> That's very likely a violation of the license agreement you made when
>> you installed the software.
>How does it differ from (say) changing MAX's memory partition, icon or
>internal configuration resources?
>(I recently increased the size of the dialogue box in the "dialog"
>object. Have I broken some laws?)

The relevant clause (if it is present in any particular license)
generally refers to reverse engineering, disassembly, and similar
attempts to "find out how it works". These clauses are not only largely
unenforceable (neither the police nor the manufacturer is likely to come
knocking on your door to inspect your hard drive for disassembly dumps),
but of dubious legality (and this differs from state to state and country
to country...).

Changing memory parition in the Get Info window is an entirely different
kettle of fish. If the software manual tells you how to do this, complete
with screen shot, well, it is hard to imagine any court that would not
construe such instructions as permission to make the change, particularly
if there is no explicit prohibition.

Nick, have you ever _seen_ the sentence "Do Not Change The Size Of
<>'s Memeory Partition!" in *any* software
manual? I thought not.

Customizing the Icon may be a bit tacky, but cf. the last sentence of my
first paragraph. Similarly for hacking the resources of a Prefs file to
change some item for which the software doesn't give you a User
Interface. On the latter, I would advise against distributing the hacked
Prefs file, and you should exercise some sensitivity before broadcasting
on USENET how to execute the hack. F'rinstance, in the days when the
(original) Coda was claiming proprietary rights to the ETF spec (legally
defensible, BTW), a couple of people hacked out a good chunk of the spec
(one of them reads--or used to read and contribute to--this list). They
had good cause to be a bit subtle about broadcasting news of their
accomplishment to the world. Now that Coda (Mark II) has published a
partial spec and promised more, I would not expect them to sue if someone
managed to decipher some aspect of the file spec and posted it to, say,
the Finale mail list (although, if I were to do this, I would start slow
to see if there were any reaction).

The reverse engineering clauses are basically to discourage anyone who
might want to develop a similar product (say you want to create a
graphical MIDI-oriented programming language called Fred) from taking the
easy path and simply "borrow" huge swathes of assembly code from the
model application.

Does the above make sense?

Oh, yeah: I'm not an attorney, the above isn't legal advice, and all the
other caveats required in the US. (Of course I'm not a bloody attorney.
mutter grumble mutter...)



---------------- ----------------
Dr. Peter Castine           | Looks and sounds not unlike Hitler -- but   | without the charm.
                            |       Gore Vidal on William F. Buckley Jr.


Date:    Thu, 2 Jul 1998 08:32:13 +0000
From:    Michael DeMurga 
Subject: 9-pin powerglove to goldbrick interface

Is it possible to connect a 9-pin powerglove (later model?) to the
goldbrick interface with the Nintendo 7-pin connector?  What would the
pin-to-pin connections be?

Thanks a lot for any help.




Date:    Thu, 2 Jul 1998 10:42:10 -0000
From:    Nick Rothwell 
Subject: Re: Authorization losses!!

> Nick's reasons for not upgrading having to do with the appropriateness
> of the upgrade for his setup are perfectly legitimate. The reasons
> I think are potentially misguided have to do with copy protection.

OK, fair cop.

        Nick Rothwell, CASSIEL            contemporary dance projects            music synthesis and control

  "Welcome to Moscow, Mrs. Gandhi."  -- Leonid Brezhnev to Margaret Thatcher


Date:    Thu, 2 Jul 1998 09:41:25 -0500
From:    "Brian K. Shepard" 
Subject: Two Questions

Thanks to all who responded to my "raise your hand if your not here"
request a few days ago.  The two questions I had posted earlier are:

1.  Has anyone had experience with The Glove (The video game control Glove)
from RealityQuest?  It looks somewhat like the old Nintendo PowerGlove, but
the box says it is 100% Playstation compatible.  I'm wondering if it can be
modified or adapted to work with the Goldbrick interface and/or MAX.

2.  The school where I teach is finally allowing me to upgrade to a G3 Mac,
but I am concerned about my Nubus audio cards (Session 8 and SampleCell
II).  The replacement price from Digidesign is outrageous and I need to be
able to continue using them.  Does anyone know of a Nubus to PCI riser that
would allow me to keep the cards plugged into a box that then plugs into
one of the PCI slots in the new machine?



Dr. Brian K. Shepard
University of Oklahoma
School of Music


Date:    Thu, 2 Jul 1998 16:57:54 +0200
From:    Roland Cahen & Ruth Sefton-Green 
Subject: Re: Authorization losses!!

Dear David Rodger,
Thank you for your answer about the authorizations I have lost.

>Have you followed the manufacturers' instructions (Opcode's and Pace's),
>and not done anything silly?
-I mitght have done but it should be safe enough nowadays.
  I'm not the only one who manipulates the key disks unfortunately.
it apparently happenned to many others.

>Someone mentioned not having two installs on the same drive.
- This seems to be true, especially if they are different versions.
   Too bad the instructions aren't clear and not in french either.

>Are this and other causes of installation problems
>actually mentioned in those instructions?
-It is even more croocked than that.
  For example, I run my version on my authorized external hard disk
  but the authorization is not removable anymore.
  When I turn the menu on remove in the authorization programm, it shows
only grey names.

>If not, then you should demand
>that Numera (or even Opcode) provide key discs free of charge, except
>perhaps for postage.  They are either selling a _faulty_ product or the
>product has faulty or insufficient documentation.
-At the moment both!
Even if I understand the use of =A9rax, I do not approve that discussion.
Such purposes may achieve the opposit effect than the one expected.
I mean clients are not thieves and must not be considered so.
(Infact in our case Opcode is because of "a _faulty_ product")

We must push and help Opcode to assume their responsability.
First they should  recognize that their key system is far from beeing per=
Secondly they must make their best to solve the actual authorisations
stability problems.
Third they shall give any proper max user the oppotunity to be able to ru=
the software they legaly bought in normal, easy and safe conditions.

In that aim your proposition of :
>"demand that Numera (or even Opcode) provide key discs free of charge, e=
>perhaps for postage.  They are either selling a _faulty_ product or the
>product has faulty or insufficient documentation."

Very good proposition, but Numera already answered me a few months ago
that : Opcode didn't provide them with this kind of free disks. So I had =
pay each time.
They didn't want either to exchange me my empty floppy against a new one.
Obviouly, this is a bad commercial politic ; at least for two reasons.
1) Not recognizing the facts encourage poeple to use unlegal copy and spe=
them out.
2) Multiple copies of key disks even empty may have the efect that max
will run on more machines even using manual authorizations with key disks.

So Opcode have now good reasons to solve this problem quickly.
Now another question is "OPCODE ARE YOU READING US ?"

Yours Sincerly
Roland Cahen


Date:    Thu, 2 Jul 1998 10:45:09 -0400
From:    Chris Murtagh Hrdc-drhc 
Subject: Re: Nubus -> PCI

July 2nd,  Dr. Brian K. Shepard wrote:

>2.  The school where I teach is finally allowing me to upgrade to a G3 Mac,
>but I am concerned about my Nubus audio cards (Session 8 and SampleCell
>II).  The replacement price from Digidesign is outrageous and I need to be
>able to continue using them.  Does anyone know of a Nubus to PCI riser
>would allow me to keep the cards plugged into a box that then plugs into
>one of the PCI slots in the new machine?

 I have this feeling that you didn't a response the first time because
there probably isn't a decent solution to this problem.  I suspect that the
Nubus cards will be too tall, especially after some sort of adapter is
added, making it impossible to fit them in the G3 housing.

 If I were in your shoes, I would sell the Nubus hardware while it is still
worth something (it won't be for much longer).  This sounds harsh, but it
might be your only solution, and I think in the long term you would
probably be much better off (even though it might be a short-term financial
disaster). In my (limited) experiences, audio hardware and software is not
stable to begin with, let alone when you start to do wierd things like
Nubus -> PCI conversion. Even if you did manage to get it working, I think
you would have a hell of a time getting it to run smoothly.

 If you do find a solution to this problem, I would be interested to hear
how it works.


Christopher Murtagh
(the guy with 'way the hell too many e-mail addresses', good thing I don't
list them all ;-) )


Date:    Thu, 2 Jul 1998 10:27:49 -0700
From:    Jim Wood 
Subject: Re: MAX Digest - 1 Jul 1998

I'm trying to learn how to make Max externals .
The SDK that came with the version of Max  we
have(3.5) here includes very old Codewarrior
projects, is there  any newer version with more
recent projects. We are using CodeWarriorPro2.1
here now.
In respect of MSP externals  I  saw a note in your
SDK about how you didn't advise using Codewarrior 2,
is this still the case? Any hnts at to getting
projects compiled.


Get your free address at


Date:    Fri, 3 Jul 1998 03:09:09 +0200
From:    Manuel Poletti-Studio Parlant 
Subject: download Mody

Thanks to "=cw4t7abs"  Mody software is currently available from the
following site:

you can download the files directly from:      [1246k]  [423k]            [46k]

The mody doc is written in french. (sorry).Contains 8 simpletext pages.The
three first pages (introduction, installation and getting started) are in
english.This should be enough to start working within Mody.It's quite
simple from the point where the "excitation/resonance" interaction is well
understood.One thing is that you need a screen having a 1024/768 hz (17'')
frequency in order to see every windows.This is due to the fact that one
can't save the windows 's positions.Will be corrected soon .Have fun with
it.Send me your questions.



Date:    Thu, 2 Jul 1998 21:43:32 -0400
From:    Fleur de Vie Weinstock 
Subject: Middle East petition (fwd)

---------- Forwarded message ----------
Date:          Wed, 01 Jul 1998 21:49:49 -0400
From:          Ray  >
Subject:       The Middle East, Cambridge, MA

This is Ray of the Down Low Connection.  I'm writing to solicit your
support of the Middle East in Cambridge, MA.  Recently, they have had
to meet with the Cambridge licensing board and will meet with them
again next Tues.  This has all been over patrons blocking the sidewalk
while waiting to get into a show to see a national artist.  The Middle
East is Cambridge's largest club - holding 550 in the large room and
200 in the small room.  Because of this I think that it is in every
music lover's best interest and every musician's best interest that
this club stays open. I hope that you support this cause.

Please pass this petition to anyone that you think would be interested
in supporting the Middle East.  Every 100th person should e-mail this
back to me at    This petition needs
to be in their hands
by Monday, July 6 - so regardless of where you are in the queue - send
this back to me on the 6th (by 5 p.m.)

Thanks for your support

1) Ray Archie, Cambridge, MA
Down Low Connection 
phone: (617) 984-0578
fax: (617) 497-0166

2 - Kevin O'Leary
Flydaddy, Inc.
POB 545
Newport, RI 02840

3 - Andrea Troolin
Shetland Park
27 Congress Street
Salem, MA 01970 

4 - Amy Guertin
Shetland Park
27 Congress Street
Salem, MA 01970

5 - Heath Row
Fifth Man Media
P.O. Box 441915
Somerville, MA
617 628-2583

6 - Fleur Weinstock
3 Sacramento St
Cambridge, MA  02138
617 493 6631


End of MAX Digest - 1 Jul 1998 to 2 Jul 1998