Subject: MAX Digest - 29 Jun 1998 to 30 Jun 1998
Date: Wed, 1 Jul 1998 00:00:28 -0400
From: Automatic digest processor 
Reply-To: MAX - interactive music/multimedia standard environments
To: Recipients of MAX digests 

There are 17 messages totalling 482 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Authorization losses!! (3)
  2. lists of lists
  3. Loss of Authorisation (2)
  4. one MAC == one Max authorization, any ver.
  5. NAN(255)
  6. MIDI-transfer between Max and Vision.
  7. Adobe conflict
  8. Carbon MAX/MSP
  9. MAX Digest - 17 Jun 1998 to 18 Jun 1998
 10. compatible soundcards
 11. Dr. Craxs
 12. cd object
 13. Objects with CWPro
 14. increased serial out


Date:    Mon, 29 Jun 1998 21:34:24 -0700
From:    David Zicarelli 
Subject: Re: Authorization losses!!

>I keep on loosing authorizations, 5 sets in the past year, especially when
>upgrading machines with the new 3.5.8 max key disk.

I would still claim that authorizations that were getting lost
were with the old copy protection, not with InterLok. Roland has
never really presented any evidence to the contrary.

I will admit that I think PACE has not done a very good job with
maintaining and fixing their previous versions, but I think
the current version is very solid. I can say this having
had to support both previous copy protection versions and the
current version. There is absolutely no comparison in terms of
the number of complaints received.

The unfortunate result of this PACE legacy are people like Nick
who refuse to upgrade merely because of their bad experience with
previous versions of the copy protection. Of course, I believe that
Nick has some professional experience with computer programs, so I
know he realizes that programs can be improved. It's too bad
that the emotional trauma of his past experiences have clouded
his otherwise impeccable professional judgment in this matter.

David Z.


Date:    Tue, 30 Jun 1998 00:19:22 -0600
From:    "Pablo Silva-Escuela Nacional de Musica,
Subject: lists of lists

Hello maxers!

I just wanted to thank all of you for your suggestions about list
management. Several of these have been truly useful for me on this

Pablo Silva


Date:    Tue, 30 Jun 1998 02:38:41 -0400
From:    Andrew Davenport BROUSE 
Subject: Loss of Authorisation

It needs to be said - for the record - that losing authorisations for Max
is not rare but in fact quite common.  I don't know if a dongle is
neccessarily a better solution.  It seems to me the market for Max is so
small and there is such an implicit honour system that it would be better
to just dump authorisation entirely as Metrowerks does with CodeWarrior
and have it more like a subscription:  only registered users get the

(For all you Opcode lurkers - yes I did buy my copy but no I have not
sent the registration card in yet.)

Andrew Brouse
Computer Applications in Music
McGill University
Montreal, Canada


Date:    Tue, 30 Jun 1998 04:08:45 -0400
From:    Stephen Kay 
Subject: Loss of Authorisation

>(For all you Opcode lurkers - yes I did buy my copy but no I have not
>sent the registration card in yet.)

>Andrew Brouse

As if Opcode Employees have the time to look up every single name of
the Max/Vision list(s) and determine whether those users are in fact
legitimate!  Thanks for the good laugh...

Stephen Kay


Date:    Tue, 30 Jun 1998 11:44:27 +0300
From:    Ken Gregory 
Subject: one MAC == one Max authorization, any ver.

Hi Roland,

>trying to remove it. Especially when using several different
>authorisations on the same machine, it asks others disks to authorize and
>then looses them all.

You can't have multiple Max authorizations on the same host mac.. period. I
too travel and am confronted with all kinds of scenerios with different
Macs, OS, verions of Max, etc. Before I do any thing I examine the machine
I am using throughly , and perform any HD maintenanance,  software adjusts
and upgrades befroe I do any thing with my software. So far in 7 years I
have only lost one install. And it was lost because of somebody else
intalling Max software without checking the machine first.



Ken Gregory
704-138 Portage Ave. East
Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada R3C 0A1
ph. 204-942-7510  fax 204-942-1555


Date:    Tue, 30 Jun 1998 11:25:29 -0000
From:    Nick Rothwell 
Subject: Re: Authorization losses!!

> Of course, I believe that
> Nick has some professional experience with computer programs, so I
> know he realizes that programs can be improved. It's too bad
> that the emotional trauma of his past experiences have clouded
> his otherwise impeccable professional judgment in this matter.

OK, since you bring the topic up, let me at least attempt to apply
some impeccable professional judgement here.

Current situation: I run MAX 3.0 on a couple of 680x0-based
PowerBooks. (Not at the same time, of course, since that would violate
the licence, and it also isn't terribly useful: I have a development
machine and a dedicated, bolted-into-the-rack performance machine.)

MAX 3.0 is extremely stable, I can build external modules for it using
THINK C, it fits nicely onto the performance machine (8MB PB170), and
I don't need any other functionality. (Well, Timelines might be nice,
but I just run a sequencer in parallel for that.)

I challenge anybody here to give me any good reason for upgrading.

MAX 3.5 comes on a CD-ROM. I can't read CD-ROM's.

MAX 3.5 is PPC-native. None of my PowerBooks have PPC processors.

MAX 3.5 has no better performance than MAX 3.0 on 680x0
processors. (In fact, it's been mentioned here that it's slightly

To develop modules for MAX 3.5, I need need to also buy a new C
compiler and change my source code.

So, I pay for the upgrade, buy a CD-ROM drive, buy a new C compiler,
change my source code, and get zero benefits.

At some stage I might well go for the full paradigm shift: buy a G3
machine, the latest MAX, MSP, MetroWerks, the whole works, and do it
in a oner. But there's no reason why I should even care about upgrades
until and unless I get to that position.

(If someone wants to give me a reason, I'm listening, and if the
reason were compelling enough I might even consider a low-performance
PPC processor swap for my PowerBook 520.)

        Nick Rothwell, CASSIEL            contemporary dance projects            music synthesis and control

        NOTICE - this vessel has triple screws - keep clear of blades


Date:    Tue, 30 Jun 1998 14:52:40 +0200
From:    Oeyvind Brandtsegg 
Subject: NAN(255)

When using the asin (arcsin) function in an expr object,  the output of
the expr is sometimes "NAN (255)" (without the quotes). I can't really
pinpoint exactly what makes it happen, but it keeps me from debugging my
patch, and I'm curious to hear if any of you happen to know what NAN
(255) means (?).
At first I thought it was a consequence of the expr output being a too
small float for max to handle, but this doesn't seem to be the case.

If it will make my question any more clear, here's the expression:
( I really hope that the character $ looks like a dollar sign on the

expr asin(($f2-$f3)/$f1)

$f1 is the radius of a circle
$f2 is the y coordinate value for a specific point at the circle
$f3 is the y coordinate for the circle's center

The expr output is supposedgive me the angle for the specific point,
expressed in radians.
Most of the time it give me perfectly good values, until the NAN comes

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Oeyvind Brandtsegg


Date:    Tue, 30 Jun 1998 17:09:25 +0100
From:    Trond & Laila Linde Lossius 
Subject: MIDI-transfer between Max and Vision.

At last, after x crashes, I've managed to send MIDI from Vision to Max,
process them and return the processed MIDI to Vision for recording, but
there's one point of the process I don't understand:

In order to calculate pan from bender values, I've done as follows:

In Vision I'm playing Track 1 while recording on Track 2. Track 1
contains note on/off messages and pitch bend values, and is set to IAC
Bus #1 ch. 1. Track 2 is recording on IAC Bus #2 ch. 1.

The Max patch receives MIDI from a midiin-object and then filters out
bender values. These are used to calculate pan, which is output to IAC
Bus #2 ch.1 using a ctlout object. This is the only object of the patch
that outputs any kind of MIDI.

Pan values are recorded to Track 2 O.K., but for some reason note-on/off
and bender values gets recorded as well.

Anyone got a reasonable explanation?


Trond L.


Date:    Tue, 30 Jun 1998 12:19:08 -0400
From:    muhenry 
Subject: Adobe conflict

My sympathies for lost MAX authorizations just increased 10-fold!

I installed a copy of Adobe PhotoShop LE on my hard drive and when I called
up my MAX 3.00 program shortly thereafter it would not recognize the
MAX copy I had installed and authorized some time before. I checked the
invisible files and sure enuf the little  max key was gone. PhotoShop had
also placed an invisible  file on the HD (for some reason). I trashed the
Adobe (and the file), rebooted tried to start up MAX , but nothing doing!

So I have lost my first authorization, no big deal I guess, but I never
dreamed installing another app would trash it!  So beware!

I suppose there is an explaination,- somebody?

Guess the moral is, get your authorization back before installing (any?)
large application (if you can). Never had any problems before, if you don't
count MAX 3.00 crashing and freezing up the screen whenever I close a
graphics& sound-heavy patch and try to open another without quitting!

Well, thanks guys & dolls, just wanted to blow off some steam.

Regards to everyone- Otto


Date:    Tue, 30 Jun 1998 12:12:23 -0400
From:    Chris Murtagh Hrdc-drhc 
Subject: Carbon MAX/MSP

Greetings David and gang,

Haven't heard this topic come up yet, but I imagine it will be a big one
within a few months or so, so here it goes:

Any time/thoughts/concerns regarding Carbon Dating MAX or MSP? Are any of
the changed/removed API's going to effect MAX/MSP at all (for better or
worse)? I know I am really looking forward to having a real OS for the Mac
with preemptive mulitasking, multithreading and TRUE protected memory -
unlike windoze.  I imagine it would add a good bit of stability to MAX and
probably save a LOT of grief for people who are out on the road with their
laptops (I'm sure I would rather see one patch or MAX shutdown instead of
watching the whole show come to a grinding halt!).

 Has anyone else on the list had any thoughts on the subject? It might be
just me, but I find it exciting that the Apple has finally talked about an
OS that  rivals that other platform in areas where it really counts for
serious users (it's about time).  Sure the Mac OS is pretty looking and
easy to use, but if it was my name and face on stage, I would consider
switching to a Linux based system scripting in Perl (yeech - ugly) if it
meant my performance wasn't going to crash.

Anyway, if this proves to be uninteresting to the listserv, I would really
like to discuss it with (and learn from) anyone who is interested.

Christopher Murtagh


Date:    Tue, 30 Jun 1998 10:26:52 -0700
From:    Jim Wood 
Subject: Re: MAX Digest - 17 Jun 1998 to 18 Jun 1998

Hello, I'm new  to this list and pretty new to
programming too, but am interested  in
programming applications for sound that use quite
complex sound processing but a simple graphical user
interface. I really like Max and the  MSP extension
is a god send.  However as I understand it, as Max is
programmed in C it is possible to write your own C
routines to be added to Max Patches, what I want to
know is how  to get these working together, if I have
a simple graphical screen program written in C. For
instance Pong or a game that uses the mouse, what
kind of object  would  I  need to send  the mouse
movements to Max from this screen (e.g. a g-world, or
off- screen buffer). Can any one help, or send me to
where I might find some examples.
Also How about Granular Synthesis as in
SuperCollider, in real time from an audio input is
this possible in MSP Max.
I'd appreciate any help.

Jim Wood  MDX Uni.UK
Get your free address at


Date:    Tue, 30 Jun 1998 13:40:39 -0400
From:    David Crandall 
Subject: compatible soundcards

Apologies for multiple postings, I'll try to keep it short.

I'm thinking of getting a multichannel soundcard for my PM 7600 and want
to find one that will work with everything.  I currently use Pro Tools
software as well as SuperCollider, and will probably upgrade Max to
3.5.9/MSP relatively soon.  My minimum need is 4 channels of I/O so I can
at least print stereo effects back to Pro Tools, although more channels
would be great.  Another consideration of course is latency; a faster
4-channel beating out an 8-channel with greater latency.

I'm also thinking of getting a G3 PowerBook and migrating the whole setup
to that, so if there are products that will do what I need on that
platform, I might hold off till then.

Reply to the list or privately, as you wish.


David Crandall


Date:    Tue, 30 Jun 1998 09:34:34 -0700
From:    Richard Zvonar 
Subject: Re: Authorization losses!!

On Mon, 29 Jun 1998 09:53:55 +0200 Roland Cahen

>I keep on loosing authorizations, 5 sets in the past year, especially when
>upgrading machines with the new 3.5.8 max key disk.
>I hope you can understand this better than Alan Cronce who says that it is
>just impossible.
>You are all so shure that I begin to think either something is wrong with
>me (The way I get rid of some extention maybe) or something is wrong whith
>you all.

I believe you, and I have little confidence in any claims people
(especially Allen Cronce) make about Pace's robustness.  I know from
personal experience that creative computer users can break things in ways
that software designers could never imagine. This applies double to copy
protection schemes.

Richard Zvonar, PhD                    
(818) 788-2202 voice                   
(818) 788-2203 fax                     



Date:    Tue, 30 Jun 1998 15:33:18 EDT
From:    "SETA,MICHAL,MR" 
Subject: Dr. Craxs

>Date:    Mon, 29 Jun 1998 08:55:06 -0400
>From:    Chris Murtagh Hrdc-drhc 
>Subject: Authorization Losses
> I hate to say this, but the real solution to problems like this is
>Resorcerer/Res-Edit, a decent sector editor and a (little) bit of assembly
>knowledge. 3 installs --> +inf installs in < 30 minutes (I only use this
>stuff on registered software, and I DON'T do it for others). Unfortunately,
>bad copy protection (along with a little dishonesty) is what keeps people
>with names like Dr. Craxz in business.
Actually, some of them do it for free ....
And their job seems to be more reliable than PACE.

My question:
           Is there a law against using kraks on registered

  Michal Seta


  Wagner has good moments but bad quarter-hours.


Date:    Tue, 30 Jun 1998 15:40:34 -0600
From:    Todd Welbourne 
Subject: cd object

Dear max friends,
        Perhaps this has been covered: cannot get the cd object to work,
crashes the program every time (Norton crashguard says bus error). Am I
missing an extension? I can play an audio cd fine from the desktop.
Running MAX 3.5.9 on a PB 1400cs with 56M RAM SYS 8.1. TIA, TW


Date:    Wed, 1 Jul 1998 00:12:21 -0000
From:    cerveau 
Subject: Objects with CWPro


I upgraded to CW Pro a few times ago, and only recently deleted the CW 11
Now I've got problems to do everything right to write some externals for
These are "classical" Max objects, not MSP ones (I think that for MSP
CW11 is needed
because CW Pro is not able to use the Motorola compiler which is used for
MSP due to
better performances of math functions). Does someone have a solution for
this problem?


Laurent Cerveau


Date:    Wed, 1 Jul 1998 12:20:01 +1000
From:    somebody 
Subject: increased serial out

hi everybody

just wondering if anyone knows a way of getting numbers larger than 8bit
out of the serial port. 16 bit would be lovely. I'm trying to send
numbers larger than 255 to a stamp microcontroller.

thanks and regards



End of MAX Digest - 29 Jun 1998 to 30 Jun 1998