Subject: MAX Digest - 26 Apr 1998 to 27 Apr 1998
Date: Tue, 28 Apr 1998 00:00:37 -0400
From: Automatic digest processor 
Reply-To: MAX - interactive music/multimedia standard environments
     
To: Recipients of MAX digests 

There are 12 messages totalling 419 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Quel rapport avec le prix du buerre?
  2. max to c conversion (2)
  3. composition shoot-out
  4. error correction
  5. MAX Digest - 25 Apr 1998 to 26 Apr 1998
  6. MTC, Matching lists, Academia
  7. Ethernet object/binary object
  8. c51]82-057
  9. Old vs. New World's
 10. WaveRider
 11. kompet!t!on

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Date:    Sun, 26 Apr 1998 21:19:05 +0100
From:    Christopher Dobrian 
Subject: Quel rapport avec le prix du buerre?

Re the following quote from SETA,MICHAL,MR

>Why is it that composers/academics/researchers/blahblahblah
>having all this money/facilities/support don't do anything
>worth listening to?

People have been so busy trying to respond defensively or offensively to
this question, that they may have overlooked a fallacious assumption at its
basis. Why would anyone assume a direct connection between
"money/facilities/support" and "anything worth listening to"? One can make
something worth listening to without the use of money, and one can make
garbage with riches. I know of no inherent correlation.

--Chris

                              ----------------
             Christopher Dobrian / School of the Arts - Music
             University of California / Irvine, CA 92697-2775
                Phone: (949) 824-7288 / Fax: (949) 824-4914
                      http://www.arts.uci.edu/dobrian/

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Date:    Mon, 27 Apr 1998 10:39:32 +0100
From:    Jem Finer 
Subject: max to c conversion

If I want to convert a Max patch into C , seeing as how Max objects are
written in C, is there a simple conversion technique ?

Thanks,

Jem Finer

Kentish Town
London NW5
finer@easynet.co.uk

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Date:    Mon, 27 Apr 1998 06:30:50 -0700
From:    Philip Aker 
Subject: composition shoot-out

!orp writes:

> xkoob vo k5$ + ps!l nommoc hsotn!cam loot!g!d 4 esnec!l 1 =
> ez!rp ]enamuhn! e+lla!tnesse = ztroffe lanummok 2eud[ .eroks
> latot ezd mor4 dtkartbus b ll!w ztn!op dez!l!tu namuh hcae 4
> oztla .eroks latot ezd mor4 dtkartbus b ll!w ztn!op dz!l!tu
> tnemp!uke vo k1$ hcae rof tazd = tnemr!uker e+lno .macri za
> hcus .zsrok vo no!tut!tsn! k!medaka na yb dz!nagro
> .xk!medaka.non + xk!medaka ezd neewteb no!t!tepmok 1 tzeggus 2
> ek!l dluow

Perhaps I've got it backwards, but wouldn't an academic in a
non-academically organized environment be placed at a
disadvantage?

> .tnazaelp artlu = 1la gn!daer2 eud

Philip

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Date:    Mon, 27 Apr 1998 11:19:59 -0400
From:    Stephen Kay 
Subject: error correction

A few days ago I incorrectly stated the existance of an
'rtout' object; actually, there is an 'rtin' object which
reports incoming midi clock; to send out midi clock and
start/stop commands, you used a 'midiout' object and just
send the bytes directly into it:

248 - midi clock pulse
250 - start
252 - stop

Sorry for the confusion.

Stephen Kay

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 27 Apr 1998 11:27:14 -0400
From:    Stephen Kay 
Subject: max to c conversion

>If I want to convert a Max patch into C , seeing as how Max objects are
>written in C, is there a simple conversion technique ?
>Jem Finer

Oh, that it should be so easy...

Max objects are individually compiled code resources.  Yes, they are
written in C, but there's no way to "uncompile" them back into C
Code, combine all of the code into a library, then generate function =

calls to replace each patch cord - and let's not forget the underlying =

MAX program which makes the whole thing work.

Here's the real-world procedure:

1) Learn C programming.
2) Program your patch from scratch.

Stephen Kay

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 27 Apr 1998 12:35:37 EDT
From:    Chotimoti2 
Subject: Re: MAX Digest - 25 Apr 1998 to 26 Apr 1998

please un subscribe me from this list

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 27 Apr 1998 09:43:16 -0700
From:    Peter Elsea 
Subject: MTC, Matching lists, Academia

About changing time code rates-
The frame rate of MIDI code is indicated in a couple of bits of the hours
value (hours only go up to 24, right?) These are bits 5 and 6, which read
(in binary) [ indicates how to set the bits]
00nnnnn  = 24 fps  [ leave hours alone]
01nnnnn  = 25 fps  [hours | 32 ]
10nnnnn  = 30 fps with drop frame encoding   [hours | 64 ]
11nnnnn  = 30fps non drop  [ hours | 96 ]

In all cases you strip the format from the hours value with [& 31].
If you want to read the format, use [>> 5]

I think I'll update my tutorial to explain all this a little better.

About exactly matching lists-
[Lsub] ->[Labs]-> [Lsum]->[ == 0] will do the trick.
Perhaps I will add a toggle to [L== ] to make length a factor.

And then my favorite:
>Why is it that composers/academics/researchers/blahblahblah
>having all this money/facilities/support don't do anything
>worth listening to?
An arguable statement to be sure. I only have time to outline a response:
I. My feeling is that "academia" is a unique musical culture, with its own
asthetics and reward system. If you  are not a member of the culture, you
may find the music unaccessable.
II. 90% of everything is crap
III. Contrary to popular opinion, academics have a lot more to do than
write music. You don't get $70k a year for creative work, you get it for
going to committee meetings and (gasp) teaching courses.
IIIa. I (and most academics I know) don't get anything close to $70k a year!
IV. List of famous composers who had or have academic appointments.
V. Finally-
> for each $1k ov eku!pment ut!l!zd po!ntz w!ll
>b subtraktd 4rom dze total skore.
You could buy all three of the UCSC studios for the price of one fine
violin.

Peter Elsea
Electronic Music Studios
University of California, Santa Cruz
http://arts.ucsc.edu/EMS/Music/index.html
 elsea@cats.ucsc.edu

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 27 Apr 1998 12:06:21 -0700
From:    Matt Wright 
Subject: Re: Ethernet object/binary object

"David Z.Saltz"  wonders:

> Is there an object out there that will let me read raw
> data from the ethernet port, the way the serial object does from the
> serial port?

I'm not sure how much fun you're going to have parsing the raw data that
arrives at your Ethernet port.  If, by chance, the data from your device
comes
via the UDP protocol, you can use CNMAT's "udp" and "otudp" objects ("ot" is
for "open transport"), in their "read" mode, to spit out the binary data
that
are the contents of UDP packets.

Max's lack of a raw binary data type (and not so great set of data types in
general) make parsing raw data something of a challenge.  Rather than make
some (arbitrary) mapping into lists of ints or some other Max data type,
these
CNMAT UDP objects output something that is not a Max data type, and that you
need to write your own external to translate into Max data in whatever
sensible way makes sense for your application.  (There are instructions for
how to do this in the help patch.)

See

http://cnmat.CNMAT.Berkeley.EDU/OpenSoundControl/clients/max-objs.html

and, more generally,

http://cnmat.CNMAT.Berkeley.EDU/MAX/

Good luck!

-Matt

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 27 Apr 1998 21:22:12 -0000
From:    Peter Castine 
Subject: Re: c51]82-057

On Sun, 26 Apr 1998 05:16:11 -0600, antiorp wrote:

>would l!ke 2 suggezt 1 kompet!t!on between dze akadem!kx + non.akadem!kx.
>organ!zd by an akadem!k !nst!tut!on ov korsz. such az ircam.
>onl+e reku!rment = dzat for each $1k ov eku!pment ut!l!zd po!ntz w!ll
>b subtraktd 4rom dze total skore. altzo 4 each human ut!l!zed
>po!ntz w!ll b subtraktd 4rom dze total skore. [due2
>kommunal effortz = essent!all+e !nhumane] pr!ze = 1 l!cense
>4 d!g!tool mac!ntosh common l!sp + $5k ov bookx

Like the idea! (And I think I've understood it all.-) Doubt that IRCAM
would bite, though.

However, the more I think about it, the more it seems to me that there's
an underlying bourgeois/capitalist sort of aspect behind it, in terms of
the implicit evaluation that more resources should mean "better quality".
I could imagine Mendelssohn thinking that way. I sort of doubt that that
is antiorp's intention, but the interpretation is there.

But if there are prizes, I'm all for it%-}

Cheers,

Peter

---------------- http://www.prz.tu-berlin.de/~pcastine/ ----------------
Dr. Peter Castine         | When I gave food to the poor, they called me
pcastine@prz.tu-berlin.de | a saint. When I asked why the poor were
                          | hungry, they called me a communist.
                          |                         -- Dom Helder Camara

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 27 Apr 1998 21:22:25 -0000
From:    Peter Castine 
Subject: Old vs. New World's

Someone asked rhetorically:
><<>Why is it that composers/academics/researchers/blahblahblah
><<>having all this money/facilities/support don't do anything
><<>worth listening to?

And I said:
><<It's odd that you would say that, because here in America the academic
>composers complain about not being well-supported like the composers in
>Europe.

The forms and venues of support are different. In America, a lot of
composers find the only way to make a living is through academia, with
all the Ivory Tower things attached. From my point of view (having been
brought up in the US, but having spent over half my life--almost all my
adult life, in Germany), the problem with this is that there is a
tendency that comes from sitting in the Ivory Tower that one starts to
communicate _only_ with other residents of the I.T, giving up on the
outside world, while forgetting that there's a large group of people
outside the tower who love music, and who are prepared (and may even
_like_!) getting something different from both the classic/romantic
tradition and top-40 doodling. At least now and again.

This is what I meant in my comment on "academic" composers. It's the
Tower and ignoring the real world. And I sense more of this in the US
than anywhere else in the world.

I don't mean to imply that all American composers in academia are
ignoring the possibility of communicating with an audience, but there
does seem to be a shift in attitude. This came out quite strongly in a
panel discussion at the Aarhus ICMC, where one panelist came out with
"oh, I'm gonna give up on doing concerts, I think I'm gonna just write
music to play for my wife." Well, if he feels that way, fine for him. But
it's a cop out. The other classic example is Babbitt's article,
originally entitled "The Composer as Specialist" but retitled by the
publisher as "Who Cares If You Listen?" (an exercise of publisher's
rights that infuriated the the author, although there _is_ more than just
a hint of this in Babbitt's writings).

There is state support for the arts (and a _Selbstverst=E4ndnis_, a sense
that this is right and proper) in most of Europe that I miss in the US
(particularly with the debate over the NEA). This is particularly strong
in Germany and Scandinavia. But the point isn't to make life cushy for
wanky avant-garde composers, the point is to make a variety of art forms
available to the public at a price the public can afford. With the
ensuing understanding that the composer _is_ working for an audience.
It's not the same audience that M. Jackson is working for, but there is
an audience.

>They always cite Stockhausen who gets $50,000 per commission, or
>so they say.

Stockhausen is not your average composer. Karlheinz has been _very_
clever at playing his cards (with fame his trump suit) to maximize
income. I don't want to publicly say the guy is greedy, but he's no less
so than Chopin. (And don't get me started about his Wagnerian behavior at
Darmstadt two years ago.)

There are lesser-known composers in Europe who manage to make a living
largely from composing (for an audience). For most it's more like eking
out a living at a lot less than 70 grand a year. Actually, there are a
few people in the US composing outside academia, too (Oliveros comes to
mind).

>And they cite the state-supported radio in Europe that plays
>a wider diversity of music than American commercial stations.

Well, this is sort of true. 20th C. music does get played by the major
stations in Germany (which are largely state-funded but have a guarantee
of independence from government), but it's mostly from 11:00 pm to
midnight, maybe three times a week. There are a few American stations in
the same ballpark.

Sorry, I've gone on too long already.

Cheers,

Peter

-- http://www.prz.tu-berlin.de/~pcastine/ -- pcastine@prz.tu-berlin.de --
"It went down a storm. Brilliant!" 4 Stars           |  Dr. Peter Castine
                                                     +-------------------
_Flutewise_ on my arrangement of Joplin's "The Ragtime Dance" for
4 flutes, alto and bass. (Zimmermann, Order No. 31800)

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 27 Apr 1998 18:00:10 -0400
From:    Tommy DOG 
Subject: WaveRider

Dear Uncle Max,
I'm curious if anyone is using the WaveRider with it's Max software.
Sorry to bring up the Max related topic, now you may return to the composer
debate.
TD
My Semi Academic History:
1983-85 "special ed" high school -result: a diploma
1995 mail order minister -result: a card that says I'm a reverend
1998 IRCAM Forum  -result: a CD-ROM with neat software on it

"Death To The Dumb, Curses Upon The Heads Of The Weird"
    Tommy DOG: Music Brut via humans and machines
http://www.mindspring.com/~jjprinz/uni-mirror/uni.html

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 27 Apr 1998 19:13:03 -0700
From:    Peter Nyboer 
Subject: Re: kompet!t!on

>would l!ke 2 suggezt 1 kompet!t!on between dze akadem!kx + non.akadem!kx.
>organ!zd by an akadem!k !nst!tut!on ov korsz. such az ircam.

Cool idea.  Is breakdancing allowed?

>onl+e reku!rment = dzat for each $1k ov eku!pment ut!l!zd po!ntz w!ll
>b subtraktd 4rom dze total skore.

I like the spirit of this reku!rement, but the $ amount would be hard to
figure: for example, my first Mac + rig cost around $2000, but is worth
about $50.00 today, if donated as a tax write-off (like anyone would
actualy *buy* it).   There is also the problem of certain items with
differing values in different countries.   Perhaps there could be a
penalization on clock speed?  # of patch cords?  # of surge protectors?
ohms resistance between origin of sound(s) and final output?

>altzo 4 each human ut!l!zed
>po!ntz w!ll b subtraktd 4rom dze total skore. [due2
>kommunal effortz = essent!all+e !nhumane]

what happens if you use audience participation?  I once heard a comment
made about Kraftwerk's ultimate desire to have only robots on stage: "What
is this?  Some sort of musical *final solution*?"

>pr!ze = 1 l!cense
>4 d!g!tool mac!ntosh common l!sp + $5k ov bookx

You forgot about the judges.  Perhaps a celebrity panel?  Rip Torn, Kathie
Lee Gifford, and "Slash" of "Guns and Roses" could be the deciders of
musical fate for the next millenium.  Perhaps they already are....

Peter.

Peter Nyboer
pnyboer@loop.com

http://www.loop.com/~pnyboer/
--home of Slambassador multimedia gallery--

http://www.loop.com/~pnyboer/product
--product prototype! new material!--

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End of MAX Digest - 26 Apr 1998 to 27 Apr 1998
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