Subject: MAX Digest - 29 Mar 1998 to 30 Mar 1998
Date: Tue, 31 Mar 1998 00:01:58 -0500
From: Automatic digest processor 
Reply-To: MAX - interactive music/multimedia standard environments
     
To: Recipients of MAX digests 

There are 13 messages totalling 400 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. Movement Sensing
  2. follow that body... (4)
  3. Midi 50 Feet (3)
  4. hands to yourself
  5. writing directly to an object's structures
  6. MAX Digest - 28 Mar 1998 to 29 Mar 1998 (2)
  7. Max and Ethernet

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Date:    Mon, 30 Mar 1998 15:32:13 +1000
From:    Garth Paine 
Subject: Movement Sensing

arjen van der Schoot wrote
Subject: follow that body...

>Hi,

>I have been involved in a few interactive music/animation projects and am
>about to embark on another one. For this piece the movements of 5 people
>across three 6meter*6meter rooms
>should be tracked simultaneously. Right now I am tossing about ideas to get
>this done.

---------

I suggest you take a look at David Rokebys VNS which gives qualitative data
for movement.  There are only two video inputs, but you could do some image
mixing prior to VNS and send a composit signal into it with different
dancers in different corners of the video field.

I dont have the URL here, but you can find it on the links page of my home
page;

http://www.creativeaccess.com.au/~garth

Cheers,

Garth

Sonic Residues detailed programme notes for concerts and installations now
on line at    http://www.creativeaccess.com.au/~garth

>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<
Garth Paine
Composer, Sound Designer, Interactives
Museums, Dance, Film, Theatre
Phone 61 3 95259844 (W)
Fax 61 3 95275549

Immersive Virtual Environments
http://www.creativeaccess.com.au/~garth
<<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>><<>>

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Date:    Mon, 30 Mar 1998 01:05:41 -0500
From:    David Crandall 
Subject: Re: follow that body...

On Sun, 29 Mar 1998, arjen van der Schoot wrote:

> about to embark on another one. For this piece the movements of 5 people
> across three 6meter*6meter rooms
> should be tracked simultaneously. Right now I am tossing about ideas to
get

Not sure what you mean by "tracked," but if you mean that cameras must
remain pointed at the people, there are camera systems designed for use in
classrooms, etc. that will do this.  I remember seeing some literature
from one of the big Japanese mfrs., can't remember offhand the campany
name.  Of course you'd need 1 camera per person.

David Crandall

--------------
"America's achievement: history's best-dressed peasant class."
--------------
dcrand1@gl.umbc.edu

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Date:    Mon, 30 Mar 1998 11:22:17 +0200
From:    Oeyvind Brandtsegg 
Subject: Re: Midi 50 Feet

Midi 50 Feet.

I've done midi transmission with a distance of 30 metres from instrument
to computer. The signal passed thru other devices on its 30 meter travel
though. A midi guitar was sent thru four DimensionBeam controllers and
then to the mac. The longest single cable was 10 metres. The application
was not extremely time-sensitive, so I don't know if there's a
considerable delay or not.

Oeyvind Brandtsegg
mailto:obrandts@online.no


Date:    Sun, 29 Mar 1998 09:31:42 -0500
From:    Elliott Earls 
Subject: Midi 50 Feet

Hey,

I need contoll my computer via a midi keyboard 50 feet away. can I send
midi 50 feet on midid cables?


------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 30 Mar 1998 11:22:29 +0200
From:    Oeyvind Brandtsegg 
Subject: Re: follow that body...

Follow that body...

Take a look at:
 http://www.daimi.aau.dk/~diem/dk/dancedk.html

It's not about tracking body position, rather the movent of the limbs is
tracked. Maybe the've got something more coming up (?).

Oeyvind Brandtsegg
mailto:obrandts@online.no


Date:    Sun, 29 Mar 1998 23:07:55 +0200
From:    arjen van der Schoot 
Subject: follow that body...

Hi,

I have been involved in a few interactive music/animation projects and
am
about to embark on another one. For this piece the movements of 5 people

across three 6meter*6meter rooms
should be tracked simultaneously. Right now I am tossing about ideas to
get
this done.


------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 30 Mar 1998 02:55:19 -0800
From:    Christopher Dobrian 
Subject: Re: hands to yourself

David Z. wrote:

>...in a civilized society, we agree to keep our hands to
>ourselves.

[Insert your own tired Clinton joke here.]

--CD

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 30 Mar 1998 12:30:54 -0000
From:    Nick Rothwell 
Subject: Re: writing directly to an object's structures

> There are several strategies you can use - if you are creating
> your own objects, you can have them agree on a symbol to use,
> and then pass info in the Symbol's s->thing field.

Or you can use exactly the same implementation for all the objects and
alias them, in which case they can communicate via statically/globally
declared variables. The conditional structure of the code can make
this prohibitive though.

--
        Nick Rothwell, CASSIEL            contemporary dance projects
        http://www.cassiel.com            music synthesis and control

        NOTICE - this vessel has triple screws - keep clear of blades

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 30 Mar 1998 09:07:38 -0400
From:    Alan Edwards 
Subject: Re: follow that body...

>I have been involved in a few interactive music/animation projects and am
>about to embark on another one. For this piece the movements of 5 people
>across three 6meter*6meter rooms
>should be tracked simultaneously. Right now I am tossing about ideas to get
>this done.

Wybron makes an interesting system that is used to make intelligent
lights follow performers in 3D space.  It is dmx, not MIDI, but you
could ask them if there are other control signals available.
More info at:

http://www.wybron.com/Entertainment/Autopilot/index2.html

a brief excerpt from their web page:  Here's how it works

       The Autopilot consists of a DMX controller, four beltpacks and eight
ceiling receivers.

       The receivers are mounted on the trussing above your stage.

       The system controller is connected between the lighting console and
your automated lights.

       Each performer wears an unobtrusive beltpack which sends signals to
the receivers overhead.

       The receivers uses those signals to determine where the performer is
in 3-D space.

       The controller takes that information and turns it into pan-and-tilt
commands, which it then sends
       to designated lights.

And like magic, the lights respond. Smoothly. Accurately. In real time ...
following your perfomer's every
move.

----------
Alan

Alan Edwards
Synthetic Light & Sound
Fredericton, NB, Canada

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 30 Mar 1998 10:03:19 EST
From:    Rjgluck 
Subject: Re: MAX Digest - 28 Mar 1998 to 29 Mar 1998

Arjen van der Schoot asks:
<>

I've read about pieces done with BodySynth, which sounded nice. I don't know
where I have the URL for that tucked away. Maybe someone else has it. My
only
personal experience has been with I-Cube.

Bob Gluck
Sheffield, MA
http://members.aol.com/Rjgluck
New Media Jewish Artists: http://raven.dartmouth.edu/~njma/

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 30 Mar 1998 10:08:32 -0500
From:    David Bianciardi 
Subject: Re: MAX Digest - 28 Mar 1998 to 29 Mar 1998

Elliott Earls  (via Maxlist) wrote on
3/30/98 12:01 AM:

>I need contoll my computer via a midi keyboard 50 feet away. can I send
>midi 50 feet on midid cables?
>
>
>DO I need a "repeater?" do they make a "repeater?"

Hey -

Well, the spec says 50 feet, but that seems to have little to do w/ the
electrical characteristics and needs of the current loop as implemented
by most manufacturers.
In a different forum, Charlie Richmond stated that:

   "Who would like to actually provide some test data to provide more
accurate
   information to the industry?  (I can verify sending midi over 24ga
pairs
   with an overall shield connected to a wideband noise source
successfully
   through 3500'/1km of cable wound around a spool.....)"

Note that he had noise blasting onto the shield! *very* thorough, that
Mr. Richmond ;)

I've tested devices that my company and others manufacture, and had
similar results.  However, if you want to take the spec as law, and be
"sure", there are several options.
MIDIman, JLCooper, and Midia all make repeaters that do nothing more than
take the MIDI current loop and slap it onto RS-485 (differential
["balanced" in audio parlance] RS-232), and your data can go far, and
remain intact.  There are also several standalone fiber optic solutions.

Also, of course, any pair of MOTU multiport interfaces can be networked
together, giving you local MIDI "drops" with an RS-485 network.

Let me know if you need contact info on any company mentioned, and good
luck.

David Bianciardi
tech@idrc.com

212.353.9087
212.353.3947 fax
___________________________________________________________
IDRC || 415 Lafayette St || 2nd floor || NYC, NY 10003-7000

#include 

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 30 Mar 1998 10:13:45 -0500
From:    David Bianciardi 
Subject: Re: follow that body...

arjen van der Schoot (via maxlist) wrote on 3/30/98 12:01 AM:

> do you have experiences with or knowledge of other human-body
>localisation systems than the ones above and if so, could you point me in
>the some direction ?

arjen -

I'm working on a project now, where we need to localize and track humans
in an "Interactive Dance Club".  In some cases we're using pressure
switches, passive IR, opto sensors, and other conventional sensors, but
for one of the applications, we're using an infrared camera from
Raytheon/Amber coupled to some machine vision software running on a
Macintosh.

What's really cool (or hot, hehehe ;) about the IR camera is that you get
incredible "contrast" between your background and the bodies, so data
acquisition is effortless.

Downside is...camera costs US$90,000.

David Bianciardi
tech@idrc.com

212.353.9087
212.353.3947 fax
___________________________________________________________
IDRC || 415 Lafayette St || 2nd floor || NYC, NY 10003-7000

#include 

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 30 Mar 1998 19:52:07 +0000
From:    Thierry Fournier 
Subject: Max and Ethernet

Dear Maxers,

I apologize if this question seem to be obvious to several persons, but
did somebody try to control dataflow between Max and a PC via
Ethernet ? Could any Max object be able to do this ?
Any point of view about this question should be more than welcome !

Thierry Fournier

----------------------------------------------
thfo@planete.net
72 Boulevard de la Villette 75019 Paris France
----------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 30 Mar 1998 22:03:18 +0200
From:    Peter Castine 
Subject: Re: Midi 50 Feet

Elliott Earls  asks:
>I need contoll my computer via a midi keyboard 50 feet away. can I send
>midi 50 feet on midid cables?

The MIDI spec has a maximum length; if memory serves, it may be less than
the ~15 meters you want. However, I've worked with MIDI in situations
that have gone way over the spec (f'rinstance, the 6=F65k projects, where
we were working with lengths in excess of 100m).

I believe that special cable was used for the extreme lengths; I don't
think this is absolutely necessary for your 50'. However, you may need to
roll your own cables (solder DIN5 connectors to bare cable). I've never
seen finished MIDI cables in this length in a music store. Maybe someone
else has?

Cheers,

Peter

---------------- http://www.prz.tu-berlin.de/~pcastine/ ----------------
Dr. Peter Castine            | Old age is fifteen years older than I am.
pcastine@prz.tu-berlin.de    |                  -- Oliver Wendell Holmes

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 30 Mar 1998 18:17:44 CST
From:    Bill Meadows 
Subject: Re: Midi 50 Feet

Elliott,

I have run MIDI through 100 foot cables with no problems. Different hardware
may
have different limitations, but I'd try it.

Bill Meadows

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End of MAX Digest - 29 Mar 1998 to 30 Mar 1998
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