Subject: MAX Digest - 22 Feb 1998 to 23 Feb 1998 - Special issue
Date: Mon, 23 Feb 1998 17:08:19 -0500
From: Automatic digest processor 
Reply-To: MAX - interactive music/multimedia standard environments
     
To: Recipients of MAX digests 

There are 16 messages totalling 529 lines in this issue.

Topics in this special issue:

  1. MAX Digest - 21 Feb 1998 to 22 Feb 1998
  2. 22 Feb 1998 to 23 Feb 1998
  3. 21 Feb 1998 to 22 Feb 1998
  4. snd object enhancement under SoundManager 3.3
  5. Dolphin picts
  6. 17 Feb 1918 to 18 Feb 1918
  7. pict object (2)
  8. Mac G3 (3)
  9. system requirements for 2.5,  HELP!!
 10. memory usage
 11. PICT problems
 12. platforms
 13. MSP, yes!

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 23 Feb 1998 00:03:07 -0500
From:    Christopher Murtagh 
Subject: Re: MAX Digest - 21 Feb 1998 to 22 Feb 1998

On Sun, 22 Feb 1998, Pam Jennings wrote:

>
> Has anyone had any experience running MAX on a Mac G3?   If so -- did you
find
> any problems or benefits from this software/hardware combination?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Pamela Jennings

 We are running MAX and MSP on our 233MHz G3 desktops here at McGill, and
they are fantastic. The only problem that we seem to have come across
(that I know of) is what seems to be a sound manager bug. If you plug
anything into the input of the Mac (built in, not sound card) while it is
expecting audio, it makes the machine crash in a really hard/bad way.
Soon (not soon enough however), I will be getting my own for home, and no
more lab for me. :)

Christopher Murtagh
B.Mus Computer Applications
McGill University
Faculty of Music

Obligatory Quote:
------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Indeed it would not be an exaggeration to describe the history of the
computer industry for the past decade as a massive effort to keep up with
Apple." - Byte Magazine
------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 22 Feb 1998 23:24:23 -0600
From:    =cw4t7abs 
Subject: 22 Feb 1998 to 23 Feb 1998

>(If there isn't a way....)
>If David Z. will reveal to me a method for doing so inside a =
>
>Max object, I'll write the object.  Then again, you may need
>to be inside the core code to access that info.

max objekt 2 aksez human m9nd konta!nr free memor+e = !nteressant.
data lokat!on !n regardz 2 =_?

tra!n!ng humanz = kewl + adorabl
500msek.- onl+e 1 ecxper!ment = evr v!olatd
1 konservat!on law . !t = feelz az !f 1 had w!lld
!t. abr. !n real!t+e 1.nz m9nd konta!nr made 1 do

!t.

------------------------------

Date:    Sun, 22 Feb 1998 23:25:53 -0600
From:    =cw4t7abs 
Subject: 21 Feb 1998 to 22 Feb 1998

>From:    Pam Jennings 

>The great thing in this world is not so much where we are,

= Matthias Hoffmann-Kuhnt  pozt

>but in which
>direction we are moving.

= Matthias Hoffmann-Kuhnt  pozt

>From:    Matthias Hoffmann-Kuhnt 

>in an experiment to llok at the visual
> attention of bottlenosed dolpins. it works similar to a slide show
> a sequence of pictures is displayed for a certain exposure time
> (normally around 1000msec) and then a pause of app. 500msec elapses.
> the dolphin has been trained to press a response paddle upon the
> appearance of certain

>critical

2 _?

>stimuli. from there the signal is fed into

humanz

konkluz!on = humanzsukc

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 23 Feb 1998 09:46:05 +0100
From:    "Dr. Karlheinz Essl" 
Subject: snd object enhancement under SoundManager 3.3

Dear David!
Dear MAXers!

Now, as QT3.0's new SoundManager offers some new features, I am just
wondering whether they could be included into the "snd" object.

As you remember, we once discussed to usage of panning in this very object
which was not possible due to the limitations of the former SoundManager.
According to
Charles Wiltgen this should be possible now.

> Dr. Essl,
>
> Panning:  I'm fairly sure that QuickTime provides abstractions for
> panning/balance, like SetSoundMediaBalance().
>
> Charles Wiltgen
> QuickTime Evangelist      "Don't compromise.  Use QuickTime."
> Apple Computer, Inc.      
>       

What would also be on my wishlist for "snd" is the possibility to make
micro-tonal transpositions. Maybe the new SoundManager also would allow
this.

Any comments are highly appreciated.

Cordially,

   Dr. Karlheinz Essl - Composer
   Vienna / Austria
   Studio for Advanced Music & Media Technology
   http://www.essl.at/

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 23 Feb 1998 10:32:06 +0100
From:    Jeffrey Burns 
Subject: Dolphin picts

> I am trying to use max to control the display of pict files
> to a TV-Monitor in an experiment to llok at the visual
> attention of bottlenosed dolpins. it works similar to a slide show
> a sequence of pictures is displayed for a certain exposure time
> (normally around 1000msec) and then a pause of app. 500msec elapses.
> the dolphin has been trained to press a response paddle upon the
> appearance of certain critical stimuli. from there the signal is fed into
> a midi board (studio3) and the to the computer. there the reaction time
> is measured from the onset of the picture until the pressing of the
paddle.
> So far so good. I have used max to take all the measurements and save
> all the results into a file. I am also using a similar patch to
> run the same experiment with sounds insted of pictures and that works
fine.
> here is my problem:
> in the sound version of my patch I am using the seq object to
> read the appropriate midi file out of a list that is randomly generated.
> so each midi file is only read when needed.
> but in the visual version with the pict object, I can't do that
> because I have to load all possible picts at the poening of the patch!
> because I am running long sequences of picts the machine runns out of
memory.
> the pict files themselfes are only 63K but the pict object seems to take
much
> more space.now my question is the following:
> would it be possible to create a pict object that reads in pict files
> only when needed for display similar to the seq object?
> or are there other objects that would solve my problem?
> I aapreciate any comment or help.

What a beautiful thing to do with Max!
Why don't you put all the picts into a QT film and use the movie object to
show them. This will solve your memory problems. (Have you already tried
augmenting the memory allocation of Max?) You can use the shareware
ConvertToMovie to make the QT file.

Jeff Burns

http://www.snafu.de/~jeff

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 23 Feb 1998 11:01:37 -0000
From:    Nick Rothwell 
Subject: Re: 17 Feb 1918 to 18 Feb 1918

> http://194.19.130.194/spCa/zweite

There are some kinds of JavaScript application that people shouldn't
be allowed to write without a firearms license.

--
        Nick Rothwell, CASSIEL            contemporary dance projects
        http://www.cassiel.com            music synthesis and control

        NOTICE - this vessel has triple screws - keep clear of blades

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 23 Feb 1998 12:13:39 +0100
From:    Peter Castine 
Subject: Re: pict object

Matthias Hoffmann-Kuhnt asks:
[details of an unusual and interesting application of Max schnipped]
> but in the visual version with the pict object, I can't do that
> because I have to load all possible picts at the poening of the patch!
> because I am running long sequences of picts the machine runns out of
>memory.
> the pict files themselfes are only 63K but the pict object seems to take
>much
> more space.now my question is the following:
> would it be possible to create a pict object that reads in pict files
> only when needed for display similar to the seq object?
> or are there other objects that would solve my problem?

I think you'd have better luck generating a QuickTime movie with each of
your PICTs as a single frame, and then controlling the progression of
frames with the qt object.

Hope this helps,

Peter

---------------- http://www.prz.tu-berlin.de/~pcastine/ ----------------
Dr. Peter Castine           | Everybody is ignorant, only on different
pcastine@prz.tu-berlin.de   | subjects.                   -- Will Rogers

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 23 Feb 1998 12:13:28 +0100
From:    Peter Castine 
Subject: Re: Mac G3

Pam Jennings asked:
>Has anyone had any experience running MAX on a Mac G3?   If so -- did you
>find
>any problems or benefits from this software/hardware combination?

It's fast, particularly when using MSP. (sorry, folks, I still

Problems? None with Max in and of itself.

One thing that is a nuisance with MSP is that the Monitors and Sound
Control Panel won't let me turn off Audio Monitoring. So the audio input
signal is always routed to the audio output, even if I would rather
control this within MSP. As a result, you _always_ hear your input mixed
with whatever output you're producing in MSP, which is generally not what
you want.

I think there is a work-around, but I seem to have lost track of what it
was. I tried installing the older Sound Control Panel from the G3
installer CD, but there was no checkbox there for turning off Audio
Monitoring, either. Maybe someone else on the list has the solution.

Cheers,

Peter

----------------- http://www.prz.tu-berlin.de/~pcastine/ -----------------
Dr. Peter Castine         | It is difficult to make our material condition
pcastine@prz.tu-berlin.de | better by the best law, but it is easy enough
                          | to ruin it by bad laws.  -- Theodore Roosevelt

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 23 Feb 1998 12:13:42 +0100
From:    Peter Castine 
Subject: Re: system requirements for 2.5,  HELP!!

Andrew Wagner asked:
>>  what the minimum system requirements for MAX 2.5.

I'm assuming that the

>>     access
>> to version 2.5

to which you refer means "licensed access".

>>which I hope to install on a mac I will be purchasing > in the
>> near future.

And I take it you're looking for a used Mac, since you'll have a hard
time finding a new Mac running any 680x0 processor (let alone a 68000).

Anyway, I saw Max 2.0 running for the first time on a Mac Plus with 20MB
drive and System 6.whatever (or possibly even System 5.something).* IMS,
by the time 2.5 came out, 030s and 040s were the common processors and
software was expected to run with System 6 and System 7, but there were
still a lot of Plusses out there and MIDI software was still expected to
run on a Plus.

In short, I think you could run 2.5 on a Mac Plus (although some
externals, such as qt, won't give you much joy).

Sorry not to be more precise, hope this helps anyway,

Peter

PS and (*): Actually, I heard Miller talk about Max in 86 or 87, which
would mean something like Mac Plus/System 4.1, but I don't remember
actually seeing the software run. Maybe I'm just getting old.

---------------- http://www.prz.tu-berlin.de/~pcastine/ ----------------
Dr. Peter Castine                | The old believe everything;
pcastine@prz.tu-berlin.de        | The middle-aged suspect everything;
                                 | The young know everything.
                                 |                        -- Oscar Wilde

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 23 Feb 1998 12:52:24 +0100
From:    dudas 
Subject: Re: Mac G3

Here at Ircam we've been using Max on G3s for a while now, and it flies
like greased lightning!!! A G3 is especially recommended for Max/MSP -
together they make a pretty powerful musical workstation! We are all
itching for the next (faster) generation of G3s...

-Richard

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 23 Feb 1998 12:58:11 -0000
From:    Nick Rothwell 
Subject: Re: memory usage

> >Is there a way to obtain the amount of MAX' free memory (the same
> >information that is displayed in the status window)?

> (If there isn't a way....)
> If David Z. will reveal to me a method for doing so inside a =
> Max object, I'll write the object.  Then again, you may need
> to be inside the core code to access that info.

Isn't there just a ToolBox call to find out? If so, you could try
calling that inside a deferred qelem.

(I'm talking in 680x0, MAX 3.5 terminology here. I suspect the
universe has moved on somewhat since then.)

--
        Nick Rothwell, CASSIEL            contemporary dance projects
        http://www.cassiel.com            music synthesis and control

        NOTICE - this vessel has triple screws - keep clear of blades

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 23 Feb 1998 15:42:00 +0000
From:    "Gregg Wagstaff, University of Dundee,
         Scotland." 
Subject: Re: PICT problems

>date:    Thu, 19 Feb 1998 13:16:16 -0500
>From:    Adrienne Lee Harvey 
>Subject: Pict Problems

>I have been trying to work with animating pict files in the graphics
>window by having a smaller pict "float" over a background pict.  The only
>problem is that the smaller pict is accompanied by a 2 pixel white border
>on the bottom and right edges.  Is this a bug in pict or am I missing
>some params?  Any and all suggestions are appreciated!

>-Adrienne

Hi Adrienne,

This is a problem which cropped up a while back - about 12 months ago. I
too was having the same problem in 2.5. I don't know if 3.5.x has
fixed this [? anyone] - I haven't looked yet. The only solution has been
to effectively mask around your PICT - bottom and r.h.s - with a
Rect(angle) which doesn't come with the same problem. This means three
jobs intead of 1 which, if they're moving too, can be processor intensive.

I think it is also possible to make the PICT(s) into a QTmovie and use
that without any handles etc. Good luck - maybe this one can get a fix ?

Gregg Wagstaff.

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 23 Feb 1998 11:06:45 -0400
From:    Curtis Bahn 
Subject: Re: Mac G3

pcastine wrote:
>One thing that is a nuisance with MSP is that the Monitors and Sound
>Control Panel won't let me turn off Audio Monitoring. So the audio input
>signal is always routed to the audio output, even if I would rather
>control this within MSP. As a result, you _always_ hear your input mixed
>with whatever output you're producing in MSP, which is generally not what
>you want.
>
>I think there is a work-around, but I seem to have lost track of what it
>was. I tried installing the older Sound Control Panel from the G3
>installer CD, but there was no checkbox there for turning off Audio
>Monitoring, either. Maybe someone else on the list has the solution.
>
>
Hi,
I was able to turn off the audio monitoring through the G3 with monitors
and sound control panel (version 1.3.1) which came with my G3.  I set the
sound input monitoring source to "none," before launching MAX/MSP.  Within
MAX/MSP I access the dsp status panel and turn the sound input to mic or
whatever.

If I then open the monitors and sound control panel, I see that the source
"none" is still selected.  If I now set the source to mic  in the MS
control panel it is routed through regardless of my MSP settings for the
input source.

 Does this work for your machine?

Curtis Bahn

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 23 Feb 1998 11:41:58 -0800
From:    Peter Elsea 
Subject: platforms

>  I would like to know if 2.5
> runs on a 68000 processor or if it requires a 68030 or better;
We used to run it on Mac Pluses here- it worked, but slowly. For instance,
if you tried to play a steady stream of notes with a metro under 75, you
would get occasional hiccups, and any real computing like my fuzzy
harmonizers had noticable delays. Same story on LC II, but LCIIIs were
pretty good. We're still using quadra 650s in most of the labs with 3.5,
and there are no complaints, but students work on the PowerMacs when they
can.

At the other end, I've just put 3.5 on a G3/266 and zooooom!
(And the copy protect worked right on system 8.1. I understand that varies
from machine to machine, but all my Opcode installs took on this one..)

Peter Elsea
Electronic Music Studios
University of California, Santa Cruz
http://arts.ucsc.edu/EMS/Music/index.html
 elsea@cats.ucsc.edu

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 23 Feb 1998 15:06:07 -0500
From:    Stephen Kay 
Subject: Re: pict object

>> the pict files themselfes are only 63K but the pict object seems to ta=
ke
>>much
>> more space.now my question is the following:
>> would it be possible to create a pict object that reads in pict files
>> only when needed for display similar to the seq object?
>> or are there other objects that would solve my problem?

>I think you'd have better luck generating a QuickTime movie with each of=

>your PICTs as a single frame, and then controlling the progression of
>frames with the qt object.

Assuming the qt object accepts random frame locations (it probably does -=

I've never tried it) then this should work.

One other thing that would work is to use the  object from
the MegaMAX Collection.  Although primarily intended as a button (it has
provisions for separate in/out PICTs), it can be used to display any
PICT of any size.  You simply paste all your Picts into the object as
PICT resources (using ResEdit) ahead of time, then open MAX, and any
of the picts can be selected on the fly using the "pict_id" message
with the resource number - it would be easy to randomly select PICTs
this way.  For more info: http://www.musikinetix.com.

Stephen Kay

------------------------------

Date:    Mon, 23 Feb 1998 23:11:08 +0100
From:    Zip 
Subject: MSP, yes!

Finally a quiet (well, actually pretty loud) day in the studio. Boy, did I
have a lot of fun messing around with some MSP FM patches. Brought me right
back to the golden days when I was a still a budding Sonology student
trying to control a proprietary digital FM-synth in Fortran-4 on a DEC
PDP-15...

Only problem so far: it's difficult to trigger sounds in a steady rhythm
with a fast metro. Oh, well I guess I should start saving for a G3...

Great work, David! Good manual, Christopher. Thanks for all the example
patches, everybody who was involved.

Zip Boterbloem
3D-AV/studio DAC
Lange Begijnestraat 18b
2011 HH  Haarlem
The Netherlands
tel. 31-(0)23-5326643
fax. 31-(0)23-5425133
email: zip@knoware.nl

------------------------------

End of MAX Digest - 22 Feb 1998 to 23 Feb 1998 - Special issue
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