Subject: MAX Digest - 10 Feb 1998 to 11 Feb 1998
Date: Thu, 12 Feb 1998 00:00:18 -0500
From: Automatic digest processor 
Reply-To: MAX - interactive music/multimedia standard environments
     
To: Recipients of MAX digests 

There are 11 messages totalling 430 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. feedback in MSP and fireworks
  2. talking to Director (4)
  3. MAX Digest - 9 Feb 1998 to 10 Feb 1998
  4. Dreamy MSP (2)
  5. ADB I/O
  6. FAT Objects (was talking to Director)
  7. NEW LANBOX-LC II SOFTWARE RELEASE

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 10 Feb 1998 22:17:12 -0800
From:    David Zicarelli 
Subject: Re: feedback in MSP and fireworks

Roby Steinmetzer  asks:

> Is there a way to implement a feedback in MSP, i.e. re-feeding the output
> of a cycle~ object into its input (like feedback in the DX7 or similar)?
> This seems to be impossible as the audio stops when connecting the output
> to the input.

Here's something which is pretty close to a DX7-like feedback
oscillator, except that there is always a vector size delay involved.
So set the signal vector size to 64 when trying it. The I/O vector
size can be anything.

Essentially, the way to get around the "signal processing loop detector"
in MSP is to use a tapin~  - tapout~ pair with a delay of zero.

max v2;
#N vpatcher 50 40 450 340;
#P toggle 5 187 15 0;
#P flonum 144 84 48 9 0 0 0 3;
#P flonum 146 153 65 9 0 0 0 3;
#P newex 27 222 45 196617 dac~;
#P newex 68 115 87 196617 *~ 0.1;
#P newex 27 187 101 196617 *~ 0.1;
#P newex 117 56 60 196617 tapout~ 0.;
#P newex 68 146 55 196617 tapin~ 200;
#P newex 68 88 59 196617 cycle~ 440;
#P comment 196 84 87 196617 feedback control;
#P comment 215 153 91 196617 overall amplitude;
#P connect 2 0 6 0;
#P connect 4 0 2 1;
#P connect 5 0 7 0;
#P fasten 3 0 4 0 73 173 44 173 44 35 122 35;
#P connect 5 0 7 1;
#P fasten 6 0 5 0 73 138 32 138;
#P connect 6 0 3 0;
#P connect 8 0 5 1;
#P connect 9 0 6 1;
#P connect 10 0 7 0;
#P pop;

I was trying to write a feedback oscillator that has only one sample
of delay (the theoretical minimum), but my head was starting to
explode thinking about it. Speaking of which...

>Does anyone have experiences in triggering fireworks from Max?

No, but you'd probably want to use a lot of bangs.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

David Z.

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Feb 1998 08:23:49 +0100
From:    Peter Castine 
Subject: Re: talking to Director

>Could it be that there is some way IAC could talk to Director?  Is this a
>job for the new QuicKeys or some kind of apple script or events
>capability?  Could this be finally my excuse to upgrade?

David,

I've written an object for sending AppleEvents between Max and QuicKeys.
Once you talk to QuicKeys, the rest of the Mac world's your puppy, since
QK will handle menus, type, and do whatever else you tell it to, and do
this with any Mac application.

The QKSend packet is available at the standard Max FTP sites, but I can
send you a copy. The documentation still has some rough edges, but it's
usable. Hopefully, I can smooth off the corners soon.

I might also be persuaded to write a LingoSend (or DirectorSend) object
for Max, to talk directly to Director. But I think QKSend would do the
trick.

Cheers,

Peter

---------------- http://www.prz.tu-berlin.de/~pcastine/ ----------------
Dr. Peter Castine            | Logic merely enables one to be wrong with
pcastine@prz.tu-berlin.de    | authority.                  -- Doctor Who

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Feb 1998 08:40:41 +0100
From:    Jan Holmberg 
Subject: Re: MAX Digest - 9 Feb 1998 to 10 Feb 1998

>> >Could it be that there is some way IAC could talk to Director?
>>
>> I think there is.
>> Yamaha has developped the MIDXtra, a Director Xtra combined with a
software
>>  synth that can talk to OMS.
>> http://www.cyber-bp.or.jp/yamaha/xtra-e/index.html
>
>I just looked at the web page for MIDXtra, and it seems there is no MIDI
>IN.  So Director could control MIDI but not *be* controlled by it, which
>is what I want.  Somebody please tell me if this is wrong.

I asked the same question to Masa Shibazaki, one of the developpers of
MIDXtra.
He told me that at this point, this type of control cannot be realized with
MIDXTRA.
Though they have been considering MIDI IN support for the next version.

Jan Holmberg
Malardalen University, Sweden

------------------------------

Date:    Tue, 10 Feb 1998 23:53:01 -0800
From:    jhno 
Subject: Re: talking to Director

>What's the best way to do this?  Most of the MIDI stuff I see associated
>with Director seems to be just for playing back MIDI sequences, and
>hyperMIDI seems to have vanished (not that I'm sure what it did in the
>first place).

i think it is still available... hypermidi is an xcmd that lets you send
midi from director. there is an old shareware version probably kicking
around still, but the newer versions were much better. it was developed by
nigel redmon, the last contact number i have for him is: (310) 316-2939

it worked great. max seemed very well-behaved in the background.

i tried an apple events implementation but it was quite slow.

hope this helps,
jhno

---

[david z said]

>So my clever scheme of attempting to update the documentation
>with files containing only the differences between the old and
>new versions will fail miserably.

aha - your plans for world domination have been foiled again...! surely
microsoft had a hand in the design of acrobat.

() ))  (  ((( ))   ) ))))) ( )((()) (  ( ))   (  )    ) (   ((( )  (()( (()
delicate ear                                                 ear@sirius.com
san francisco, ca                                http://www.sirius.com/~ear

"For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes
turned skyward; for there you have been and there you long to return."
                                                          Leonardo da Vinci

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Feb 1998 00:01:55 -0800
From:    jhno 
Subject: Re: Dreamy MSP

>MSP is a magnificent tool, somewhat a revolution, but chut!
>Don't say it too loudly, is isn't so easy to use, or if it is,
>it isn't easy to make music with.

well, some might say the same about max...!

it does take a little learning to understand the new concepts, but if you
just work through the tutorials you'll pick it up. believe me, it's worth
it.

it should get more interesting as additional objects and patchers are
created by david z. and third parties. by the same token - make your
objects available if they are useful...!

msp is the first audio programming environment with which i have felt
really comfortable. for example i could program anything that my eventide
h3000 does in msp.

another one of my projects is to use cellular automata and genetic
algorithms to control synthesis models, such as additive/fourier synthesis.

funfunfun...
-jhno

() ))  (  ((( ))   ) ))))) ( )((()) (  ( ))   (  )    ) (   ((( )  (()( (()
delicate ear                                                 ear@sirius.com
san francisco, ca                                http://www.sirius.com/~ear

"For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes
turned skyward; for there you have been and there you long to return."
                                                          Leonardo da Vinci

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Feb 1998 11:36:10 +0100
From:    dudas 
Subject: Re: Dreamy MSP

Roland Cahen writes:

>MSP is a magnificent tool, somewhat a revolution, but chut!
>Don't say it too loudly, is isn't so easy to use, or if it is,
>it isn't easy to make music with. Wait and see.
...
>I wish it would be a little more standardised, not to be obliged to
>remember all the complicated complications of every object,
>my memory is leaking.

Very poetic.  I remember feeling like that when I first started using Max.
(And when I first started taking viola lessons, for that matter!) Some
things need a bit of time to settle-in before they feel comfortable and
familiar.

-Xoaz

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Feb 1998 08:07:57 -0600
From:    =cw4t7abs 
Subject: ADB I/O

>
>Date:    Tue, 10 Feb 1998 12:48:33 -0500
>From:    David Crandall 
>Subject: talking to Director; ADB I/O

>My friend also mentioned a new $199 ADB I/O box that takes 0-5 volt inputs
>and turns them into ADB data.  Anybody tried it?

masch!ne !n pa!n.
pleasure _?
jas.

federaL bureau ov suggezt!on |
d!v!s!on ov kr!t!kL phenomena |
 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0    0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0     0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 3 0     0 0
0 0 0 4 0 2 0 0     0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0     0 1 0 0 0 0 2 0 0 0     0 0 0 0
0 0 1 0 0 0     0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0     0 0 0 0 0 0 3 2 0 0     0 0 0 0 0 0
0 0 4 0     0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0     0 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0     0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
0 0     0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0     0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0     0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 0 4 0 0 4 0 0     0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0     0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
0 0 0 2     0 0 1 0 0 0 0 4 0 0     0 0 0 0 0 0 4 0 0 0
|kr=F8p3r=F8m|a|9|f|f|dbUg3rztr2p | god-emil.dk/=3Dcw4t7abs |

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Feb 1998 09:14:22 -0500
From:    David Crandall 
Subject: Re: talking to Director

Thanks for the responses...

On Wed, 11 Feb 1998, Peter Castine wrote:

> I've written an object for sending AppleEvents between Max and QuicKeys.
> Once you talk to QuicKeys, the rest of the Mac world's your puppy, since
> QK will handle menus, type, and do whatever else you tell it to, and do
> this with any Mac application.

> I might also be persuaded to write a LingoSend (or DirectorSend) object
> for Max, to talk directly to Director. But I think QKSend would do the
> trick.

Thanks, I was starting to suspect that this might be the way to do the
trick.  It's dawning on me (slowly) that there would of course be a big
difference between sending discrete Lingo and piping streams of MIDI
which, though low-bandwidth, might choke Director up (as indeed, many
things seem to ;-).  One advantage of a LingoSend object might be the
inclusion of a few (1-4?) channels of integer streams, perhaps for more or
less continuous control of the movie rate or, e.g., sprite location, (but
this would be a matter of experiment as to whether Director can handle
streams of numbers at all).

The other big question is, is the QuicKeys object FAT and does it require
Max 3.5.x? I'm a bit confused on this point.  I'm running 2.5.2 on a PM
and it seems I've dropped a few FAT objects (ie, ichi objects) into my
patches with mixed (including good) results, but at this writing haven't
double-checked whether this is absolutely true. Can Max run in 68k mode
but some of the objects run as FATs?

On Tue, 10 Feb 1998, jhno wrote (CONCERNING HYPERMIDI):

> i think it is still available... hypermidi is an xcmd that lets you send
> midi from director. there is an old shareware version probably kicking
> around still, but the newer versions were much better. it was developed
by
> nigel redmon, the last contact number i have for him is: (310) 316-2939
>
> it worked great. max seemed very well-behaved in the background.

Sounds good; the question, as with MIDXtra, is whether it can *receive*
MIDI as well as send it.

David Crandall

--------------
"America's achievement: history's best-dressed peasant class."
--------------
dcrand1@gl.umbc.edu

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Feb 1998 09:28:27 -0400
From:    Curtis Bahn 
Subject: Re: talking to Director

>On Tue, 10 Feb 1998, jhno wrote (CONCERNING HYPERMIDI):
>
>> i think it is still available... hypermidi is an xcmd that lets you send
>> midi from director. there is an old shareware version probably kicking
>> around still, but the newer versions were much better. it was developed
>by
>> nigel redmon, the last contact number i have for him is: (310) 316-2939
>>
>> it worked great. max seemed very well-behaved in the background.
>
>Sounds good; the question, as with MIDXtra, is whether it can *receive*
>MIDI as well as send it.
>
Hypermidi sends and receives midi well.  I was able to communicate between
max and director easily using the midi patch bay, I'm not sure how it well
it works with OMS and the IAC bus.  The problem is that it sends buffers of
data which need to be read by a Lingo script.  This can cause pauses and
bursts of data depending on what you are sending, there is also alot of
latency involved. I found the best strategy was to filter the data
(especially continuos control) with max and only send director the one
control change or note that it may need to start its own process.  if you
just pass all the data through, or send dense streams of notes, director
chokes.

Curtis Bahn

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Feb 1998 13:37:15 -0500
From:    Stephen Kay 
Subject: FAT Objects (was talking to Director)

>Message text written by David Crandall

>Can Max run in 68k mode
>but some of the objects run as FATs?

If an object has been compiled "FAT", that means that BOTH the
68k code resources and the PPC code in the data fork are included.
When using 68k MAX, the 68k code resources are used; when running
PPC MAX the PPC code is loaded and run.  Whichever version is
running, the code for the other version is ignored.

For example, the MegaMAX collection is entirely FAT.  The objects
work with 3.5.x, 3.0, and even 2.5.2.

You can easily see if an object is FAT or not by opening the
object in ResEdit. If the object has BOTH as 'mAxL' resource and
a 'cfrg' resource, it is FAT.  No 'cfrg' resource =3D 68k only. No
'mAxL' resource =3D PPC only.

Stephen Kay
----------------------- The MegaMAX Collection -----------------------
  Over 30 Max objects for the creation of more professional looking, =

         feeling, and functioning patchers and applications.
                      http://www.musikinetix.com
                          sk@musikinetix.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date:    Wed, 11 Feb 1998 21:48:11 +0100
From:    Fokko van Duin 
Subject: NEW LANBOX-LC II SOFTWARE RELEASE

NEW LANBOX-LC II SOFTWARE RELEASE
Major upgrade of all bundled software and firmware

MAASSLUIS, NL - CDS advanced technology bv announces the release of the
LanBox-LC II software bundle version 1.2. The free upgrade enhances all
three major components of the bundle (LanBox-LC II firmware, LCedit II
lighting editor and the LCtools maintenance program) and adds several new
examples for developers.

The LanBox-LC II is a 250 channel DMX lighting controller with a built in
sequencer and transition manager. Lighting programs can be activated
through MIDI, serial port and LocalTalk. The LanBox-LC II is used by MIDI
artists (musicians, theater acts and sound engineers), alternative lighting
professionals, theme parks (yes, They use it), magicians, and many other
creative minds all over the world.

Among the new features is the 20 DMX frames per seconds update rate. "This
effectively doubles the speed of the LanBox-LC IIs build in sequencer, so
the transitions will run more smooth and reaction to external triggers is
faster."

The MIDI capabilities are also expanded. "Users have requested a selectable
MIDI receive channel and a faster response to MIDI messages. The new
firmware delivers both."

Other new features include support for the very popular MAC 500, MAC 600
and MAC 1200 moving head fixures from Martin, support for 3 baudrates on
the serial port (38400, 19200, 9600) and a whole range of new shortcuts in
LCedit (copy/paste DMX values, store scene, select scene, etc.)

New examples include a LabView/serial port based lighting editor called
LVedit.vi and a HyperCard based Jingle Machine. LVedit is a working
lighting editor for the LanBox-LC II that runs on both Macintosh and
Windows platforms, the Jingle Machine shows you how to synchronize lighting
to QuickTime movies. Also new is a Director example for using the serial
port and a MAX example for timeline MIDI control of the LanBox-LC II.

CDS advanced technology is located in Maassluis, The Netherlands and can be
reached at +31 10 599 17 17, by email at info@cds.nl, or via the World Wide
Web at http://www.cds.nl/ or http://www.lanbox.com/

Media Contact:
Fokko van Duin
CDS advanced technology bv
Thames 9
3144 DG Maassluis
The NetherLands
Phone: +31 10 599 17 17
Fax:   +31 10 592 24 19
email: info@cds.nl

------------------------------

End of MAX Digest - 10 Feb 1998 to 11 Feb 1998
**********************************************