Subject: MAX Digest - 3 Feb 1998
Date: Wed, 4 Feb 1998 00:00:06 -0500
From: Automatic digest processor 
Reply-To: MAX - interactive music/multimedia standard environments
To: Recipients of MAX digests 

There are 12 messages totalling 410 lines in this issue.

Topics of the day:

  1. MAX Digest - 1 Feb 1998 to 2 Feb 1998
  2. CD-R software
  3. Jaz/SyJet
  4. Macintosh 1X external cd rom drives...
  5. MAX Digest - 2 Feb 1998 to 3 Feb 1998 - Special issue
  6. apology
  7. Multiple arguments for send and receive (2)
  8. Digital Soundscapes Summer Workshops
  9. Syjet experiences
 10. MSP/Yamaha DS2416
 11. cd recorders, jaz drives


Date:    Tue, 3 Feb 1998 01:31:21 +0000
From:    Ben Nevile 
Subject: Re: MAX Digest - 1 Feb 1998 to 2 Feb 1998

After seeing other people complain about the SyJet, I thought I'd
give the other perspective.

I bought the SyJet in May.  It's been used with six different
operating systems - all no problem.  I've also had no problem with
reliability.  I have four cartridges, and they all are behaving

I did the sound design for a feature film in December and used the
SyJet to simuiltaneously record stereo audio, play back four channels
of audio AND show a 320x240 QT movie.  (ie - I haven't had any
complaints about speed.)

Oh, I also cart the drive around a lot.  I throw it in my bag and
bike up to school almost every day.

It's a dreamy drive.  I can't explain other people's problems.



Date:    Tue, 3 Feb 1998 10:37:34 +0100
From:    Dominique David 
Subject: Re: CD-R software

I have burned a lot of CD Audio with Toast-pro 3.0.3 and a Philips CD-burner
(CDD 2600) without any problem. In fact, Toast-pro works omly in
mode, which implies that 2 seconds fixed gap between tracks. As Peter says,
have to use disc-at-once mode to insert other durations between tracks. Not
softwares, but also not all CD-burners support that mode.

Concerning software, there is an intermediate solution between Toast Pro and
Digidesign Masterlist which is Astarte (perhaps Adaptec now) CD-DA, which is
software oriented towards audio-CD burning ( $300, disc-at-once,
and seems to be a very interesting software.

Does anyone on the list have some experience with that software?


Dominique David


Date:    Tue, 3 Feb 1998 09:08:33 -0500
From:    David Crandall 
Subject: Re: Jaz/SyJet

After reading responses, the only thing I can think of to account for
differences in experience, barring some shift in the design of the drives,
is whether folks have the internal or external drives (maybe due to heat
problems/using internal SCSI accelerator cards/whatever?)

Tell you what.  Could people email me privately a short message that goes
something like:

"SyJet/hated it/internal/no accel"

or whatever your experience is, and I'll tabulate the results and repost
them?  Please use the same subject line as above (Re: Jaz/SyJet), don't
say anything else in the body of the message, put your responses in the
order given, and I can do this with little problem.  Be aware that those
who get digest form will have to change the subject line so I can filter


David Crandall

"America's achievement: history's best-dressed peasant class."


Date:    Tue, 3 Feb 1998 09:43:53 -0500
From:    Jon Witte 
Subject: Re: Macintosh 1X external cd rom drives...

>does anyone know where I might be able to find these?  I am working on
>project that would require about 4 of them.

Check Out Galaxy Hardware Publishing.  They have lots of Mac Stuff and
may have them.  It's a mail Order house that does full Mac repairs
(including mother board repairs) and have lots of new and used Mac gear.


Ask for Dave Shipway and tell him I sent you.

Jon Witte - Music Machine Studio
*   Dancing in the moonlight, to a spiritual waltz-  *
*       Dancing to the music thats in my soul.       *


Date:    Tue, 3 Feb 1998 15:10:46 +0100
From:    Georg Hajdu 
Subject: Re: MAX Digest - 2 Feb 1998 to 3 Feb 1998 - Special issue

Has anyone ever tried to run MSP using a Powerbook and a PCI expansion bay
hosting a sound card?
I suspect this could be a viable solution for all the Powerbook owners that
don't want to forgo the advantages of high-quality converters.


                                             Georg Hajdu

Hochschule f=FCr Musik Detmold,
Abteilung M=FCnster
Ludgeriplatz 1
D-48151 Muenster



Date:    Tue, 3 Feb 1998 08:40:00 -0800
From:    Peter Nyboer 
Subject: apology

sorry for sending the previous days list within yesterday's list!  Didn't
hit that "stop" button in time, I guess!

Peter Nyboer
--home of Slambassador multimedia gallery--


Date:    Tue, 3 Feb 1998 09:33:14 -0800
From:    "Keith A. McMillen" 
Subject: Multiple arguments for send and receive

I have multiple instances of a patch that contains functions that pick up
their arguments from the patch name (ie: receive #1.Pan or #1.Clock.offset,
where each named patch gets a number to differentiate it).I want to be able
to create  send and recive objects with multiple arguments using a Pop up
menu object and an int object.

This would allow me to select a destination for a signal by selecting its
name from the Pop up and then an int to decide which of the instances would
receive it. ie: Select "Pan" from the Pop up and then "2" from the int
object to cause the send argument to become "2.Pan".

The same would be true from the receive side. (Select a signal source by
name and instance number ie: "4.Velocity").

I have had success with some hacks  but I keep thinking there has to be a
better way. Is it possible to remove the space between 2 changeable
arguments so you end up with $1$2 instead of $1 $2 ?

Keith McMillen

Also spoke with Mike Marans at Event Electronics ( and he
claims their PCI audio card has sub millisecond latency and that Mac
drivers are working. This would be great for MSP if true.


Date:    Tue, 3 Feb 1998 14:38:22 -0600
From:    Jon Christopher Nelson 
Subject: Digital Soundscapes Summer Workshops


Digital Soundscapes Computer Music Workshops in Crested Butte.  The
Center for Experimental Music and Intermedia (CEMI) at the University
of North Texas is offering four computer music workshops in scenic
Crested Butte, Colorado.  Enjoy intensive workshops in Csound, KYMA,
MAX, and Algorithmic Composition amidst the beauty of the Rocky
Mountains.  The workshops offered include:

Software Synthesis With Csound---July 13-17
     Jon Christopher Nelson, Instructor

Real-Time Synthesis With KYMA---July 18-21
     Phil Winsor, Instructor

Interactive MIDI Programming With MAX---July 23-26,
     Jon Christopher Nelson, Instructor

Algorithmic Composition Workshop---July 27-31
     Phil Winsor, Instructor

Each workshop will be limited to 15 participants to ensure adequate
access to the computer music workstations.  The workshop fees are $750
for one workshop, $1400 for two workshops, $1900 for three workshops,
and $2250 for all four workshops.  Reduced rate housing and partial
scholarships may be available for students.  For additional workshop
information please point your browser to our web site at

To apply, either fill out the form in our web site or send a letter of
intent including your name, address, phone, fax, email, and a brief
biographical statement including educational background and computer
experience to:

Jon Christopher Nelson, Director
Center for Experimental Music and Intermedia
UNT College of Music
Denton, TX 76203
ph. (940) 369-7531

Preference will be given to those applicants who submit this initial
registration information by March 1, 1998.


Date:    Tue, 3 Feb 1998 13:17:09 MST
From:    Mike Metlay 
Subject: Syjet experiences

Please forgive the only peripheral MAX relation here, but on a topic like
this, more data may be relevant and useful....

Christopher Murtagh writes--
>I had and still am having some pretty horrible expreience with my SyQuest
>SyJet drive. I have just returned it (for a new replacement) for the
>second time. The SyJet has been the most unreliable piece of equipment I
>have ever used, my 1541 diskdrive for my C64 was more reliable! We have
>had a number of SyJets in the music building here and all but 1 have been
>VERY unreliable. Everything from disk errors that crash the machines, to
>glitches in Audio files and missing or corrupted beyond repair files. I
>wouldn't recommend a SyJet to my worst enemy. I have tried using it on a
>wide variety of machines from my IIfx, 7200s, 8500s and our new G3s - all
>of them don't like the SyJet (or at least not any of mine). Anyone else
>have similar experiences?

Emphatically not. We have two SyJets at our publishing offices, one of
which is used for heavy-duty dtp stuff like Photoshop and Quark and the
other of which has been used for several months doing 16-track recording in
Pro Tools. Both have been 100% flawless. There are also a couple of EZ135s
lying around that are much less hard-used, but equally solid.

On the other hand, our experiences with the Jaz were brief and hideous. And
on the OTHER other hand, our computer-service consultant has a Jaz that he
takes with him everywhere and absolutely beats to hell, which he loves and
wouldn't dream of replacing.

My personal suspicion is that we are currently in a society that "neeeds"
large-volume random access removable media, and the technology's just not
all-around suitable enough on ANY format for us to sleep soundly at night.
You can have high access speed, drive reliability, high capacity, media
sturdiness, low drive cost, or low media cost per megabyte...but you can't
have all at once.

The Zip is too small and too slow, the Jaz has unreliability accusations
against it, the SyJet hasn't captured attention the way the Jaz has and has
opponents of its own, the EZFlyer's an awkward size and less sturdy than a
Zip despite its better speed, MODs are slow and the drives cost too much,
the Orb is still vaporware, the Quest isn't shipping yet, the SparQ has no a result, there's no clear standard yet other than the Zip
(about which more below), and the waters appear to be muddying faster than
they clear. If the Jaz were as unqualified a success as the Zip was, it'd
probably be an equally strong de facto standard by now. But we live in an
imperfect world, as Bester, Sheridan, and Sinclair would say at various

I regard the Zip as a critical exception to the above rule: it has somehow
"broken through" to become the next standard in small removable storage,
less a cheap alternative to hard drives than the logical successor to the
1.4Mb floppy. I'm pleased with my Zip drive for inexpensive and sturdy
backup--it's big enough to hold the sort of data I work with for my usual
applications, and I have not yet been able to make a Zip fail (although I
know people who have, generally in applications involving many rapid
read/write passes).

I'll be interested to see how good a job the Zip does with digital
audio.... Roland has made a very big commitment to the Zip as a medium,
including shipping a composer-workstation keyboard with a Zip rather than a
floppy drive, as well as two new products that do digital audio I/O
directly from a Zip. I'll be torture-testing both of them soon, I hope.


J. Ryait: "I am thinking of replacing my SY77 with an AN1x."
P. Nagle: "And I am thinking of replacing my pet armadillo with a kiwi
Mike Metlay - ATOMIC CITY - P. O. Box 81175, Pittsburgh, PA  15217-0675 USA
 =  --   --  800.924.ATOM  =
CD orders via LOFTY PURSUITS: 800.548.6724 & 904.385.6463, FAX 904.668.5825


Date:    Wed, 4 Feb 1998 00:06:41 +0100
From:    karl kliem 
Subject: MSP/Yamaha DS2416

Will MSP support the new DS2416 PCI-DSP-card by Yamaha. When may we expect
a mac-version of the card ?



Date:    Tue, 3 Feb 1998 15:16:55 -0800
From:    jhno 
Subject: Re: cd recorders, jaz drives

>I use Toast Pro 3.0 CD by Asante with a Phillips CD-r, and it is quite
>functional.  However, if you intend to be writing mostly audio CDs, I would
>look for another software title.  Toast 3.0 (perhaps there is a newer
>version?) doesn't write "disc-at-once," nor is it able to copy audio cd's
>directly from a CD drive.

actually, there is a different version of Toast called Toast CD-DA that is
designed specifically for creating audio discs (it does not make cd-roms at
all). it does disc-at-once, meaning tracks can merge seamlessly without the
2 second spacing, and it lets you do crossfades and other nice things. i
like the interface better than masterlist, although masterlist gives you a
little more control over the pq codes i believe.

i am not aware of ANY mac program that lets you copy audio tracks directly
from a cd drive onto a cd-r - i always have to save them as AIFF or SD2
files first. if anyone knows of a way to do this - please let me know! it
would be very convenient...

sorry for the offtopic post... :)


() ))  (  ((( ))   ) ))))) ( )((()) (  ( ))   (  )    ) (   ((( )  (()( (()
delicate ear                                       
san francisco, ca                      

"For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes
turned skyward; for there you have been and there you long to return."
                                                          Leonardo da Vinci


Date:    Tue, 3 Feb 1998 18:21:37 -0500
From:    Stephen Kay 
Subject: Multiple arguments for send and receive

>I have had success with some hacks  but I keep thinking there has to be =
>better way. Is it possible to remove the space between 2 changeable
>arguments so you end up with $1$2 instead of $1 $2 ?

>Keith McMillen

If you type into a sprintf: =

set \;%ld.%s

hook it up to a message box,
and run an int into the first inlet and a symbol into the second outlet,
you will get what you want (i.e. ";1.Pan") which is a send to 1.Pan.

However, I tried this in the sprintf:

set \;%ld.%s \$1

which displays what should be a proper message in the message box:

";1.Pan $1"

However, running an int through the message box does not send to the
receive as expected, but causes an error message: $ variable out
of range(1).  I suspect this is a bug (I did this test in 3.0 so it may
not be there anymore) but there should be someway using the sprintf to
do what you want.  Typing ";1.Pan $1" directly into a message box
(without the quotes) works as expected with no error essage, so I
don't see why the same thing coming out of a sprintf shouldn't work,
but I didn't have time to figure it out.

Stephen Kay
----------------------- The MegaMAX Collection -----------------------
  Over 30 Max objects for the creation of more professional looking, =

         feeling, and functioning patchers and applications.
                          Demos available at:


End of MAX Digest - 3 Feb 1998